LDSToronto Posted April 24, 2012 Posted April 24, 2012 Cha cha cha. No, more a tap dance. The old soft shoe. A one a two, a doodly doodly doo. And you thought *you* were clever.H.
DBMormon Posted July 12, 2012 Author Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) 12th Century Naples Relief Edited July 12, 2012 by DBMormon
SamIam Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 Just thinking out loud....as Joseph Smith's father was a mason, so perhaps he'd had discussions with him prior to him joining, or read his ritual books?I believe David Buerger’s The Mysteries of Godliness had some of the best details of this situation that I recall reading. Subject to confirmation...I seem to recall that both Hyrum and Joseph's father were Masons and during the BOM translation era sought to persuade Joseph. However in these years he loathed the Masons and would have nothing to do with them only joining on with them some time after the BOM translation was completed.
SamIam Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 I don't know why reelmormon is ill-prepared. Maybe he hasn't read enough books?H.Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?Is there no knowledge but what can be found in the writings of men? This is always one of the most revealing attitudes that if you want to know something spiritual you must go and find what in most cases is an ill-concieved effort to explain the spiritual by using philosphies of men. "I'll prepared" is a term better applied to those who have failed to understand the method of gaining insight of spiritual matters from spiritual sources.
SamIam Posted July 12, 2012 Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) There are two standing theories on this issue1.) Joseph Smith saw Masonry's methods as a way to get across the inspired revealed Endowment. Those who stand by this theory claim that Masonry has no connection to ancient Christianity or Temple worship.2.) the second view is that Masonry is a degraded form of ancient Christianity and Temple Worship with legitimate inspired ritual that though needed to be uncorrupted was ancient in its historical context.My problem with this subject is that it attempts to somehow associate LDS temple ordinances with the Masons. No matter how we skirt the issue that becomes the underlying foundation of the discussion and the reason for the discussion - the semblance of Masonic ritual to LDS ritual.I once had a member in my Ward who came to me with all of his father's books concerning the Masonic rituals. His father was a high degree mason and the proximity of the two different origins had convinced this man that the rule of antiquity warranted the "older" Masonic material defined Joseph as a plagiarist. He showed me the books the images the verbiage and alas it was perplexing - the “truth” he presented.However, I did what I have always done with things I do not understand. I pondered and prayed and researched …. The scriptures.After 7 years of contemplation, one day I happened to be memorizing a chapter in Ether. Subsequent events related to the moment were displayed in a panoramic view of where Joseph Smith first learned of the temple ordinances and it had absolutely nothing to do with the Masons. He learned it through the imagery of the Book of Mormon. There is a level of imagery that is available by reading the text, however, I am positive that the full impact of the imagery can only be truly appreciated through revelation. The Masonic material was probably helpful for putting some aspects of the forms together, but the imagery Joseph found associated with their forms was imagery that he had derived spiritually. If this was a private venue of just a few select members I would venture more explanation but it is sufficient for the moment that I state that it is a mistake to place any sense of origin of the temple ordinances upon even the least degree of influence from the Mason’s. At the time Joseph learned of them he was completely unassociated with the Masons and in fact not in the least way supportive of them. When he states that the Masons were corrupted in what they practiced it is precisely because he already knew the correct manner of proper execution and he learned it from the Book of Mormon and revelations relating to such. Edited July 12, 2012 by SamIam
Damien the Leper Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) My problem with this subject is that it attempts to somehow associate LDS temple ordinances with the Masons. No matter how we skirt the issue that becomes the underlying foundation of the discussion and the reason for the discussion - the semblance of Masonic ritual to LDS ritual.I once had a member in my Ward who came to me with all of his father's books concerning the Masonic rituals. His father was a high degree mason and the proximity of the two different origins had convinced this man that the rule of antiquity warranted the "older" Masonic material defined Joseph as a plagiarist. He showed me the books the images the verbiage and alas it was perplexing - the “truth” he presented.However, I did what I have always done with things I do not understand. I pondered and prayed and researched …. The scriptures.After 7 years of contemplation, one day I happened to be memorizing a chapter in Ether. Subsequent events related to the moment were displayed in a panoramic view of where Joseph Smith first learned of the temple ordinances and it had absolutely nothing to do with the Masons. He learned it through the imagery of the Book of Mormon. There is a level of imagery that is available by reading the text, however, I am positive that the full impact of the imagery can only be truly appreciated through revelation. The Masonic material was probably helpful for putting some aspects of the forms together, but the imagery Joseph found associated with their forms was imagery that he had derived spiritually. If this was a private venue of just a few select members I would venture more explanation but it is sufficient for the moment that I state that it is a mistake to place any sense of origin of the temple ordinances upon even the least degree of influence from the Mason’s. At the time Joseph learned of them he was completely unassociated with the Masons and in fact not in the least way supportive of them. When he states that the Masons were corrupted in what they practiced it is precisely because he already knew the correct manner of proper execution and he learned it from the Book of Mormon and revelations relating to such.Link removed Edited July 13, 2012 by Valentinus
mfbukowski Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) .WARNING- THIS CONTAINS TEMPLE CONTENT AND IS NOT AN LDS SITENot to mention it doesn't even contain correct material......link removed by mod. Edited July 14, 2012 by Hestia
Damien the Leper Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 WARNING- THIS CONTAINS TEMPLE CONTENT AND IS NOT AN LDS SITENot to mention it doesn't even contain correct material......It wasn't a serious response. Easy with the disclaimer bud...
mfbukowski Posted July 13, 2012 Posted July 13, 2012 It wasn't a serious response. Easy with the disclaimer bud...That makes it much better. Link to temple material without reason. And if you think the material is correct, you are wrong.This thread should have been dead a long time ago. 1
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