Chapter 5 Highlights From Doctrines Of Salvation, Volume 1

[orion88]

These are some of what I feel are the key themes:

a) 7,000 years for the temporal existence of earth.

b) believing in an extra-terrestrial Jesus.

c) those who lived a telestial law will be eliminated.

I posted the images to my Facebook.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

HOW EARTHS PASS AWAY

"This earth is a living body. It was created to to become a celestial body and the abode for celestial

beings. Other earths, no doubt, are being prepared as habitations for terrestrial and telestial beings,

for there must be places for those who fail to obtain celestial glory, who receive immortality but not

eternal life" (page 72).

It seems like Earth has preference over other earths because Jesus was crucified on our planet.

I found the latter part of this statement odd because page 85 says that those who lived a

telestial law will be eliminated from their earth. I'll include the quote later.

LIFE, DEATH, AND RESURRECTION OF THE EARTH

"This earth is living and must die ... through the resurrection by which it shall be become celestialized

and the abode of celestial beings" (page 73).

THE LORD'S BLUEPRINT OF CREATION

"Christ created many worlds. No doubt others helped him ..."

ADAM AND OTHERS HELPED IN CREATION

"It is true that Adam helped to form this earth ... I have a strong view or conviction that there were

others who assisted them. Perhaps Noah and Enoch; and why not Joseph Smith" (pages 74 and 75).

SPIRITUAL OR PHYSICAL, AND SPIRIT CREATIONS

"Adam's body was created from the dust of the earth, but at that time it was a spiritual earth. Adam

had spiritual body until mortality came upon him through the violation of the law under which he was

living, but he also had a physical body of flesh and bones." (page 76).

NATURE OF A SPIRITUAL BODY

"Now what is a spiritual body. It is one that is quickened by spirit and not by blood. Our Father in

heaven and our Saviour and all those who have passed through the resurrection have physical

bodies of flesh and bones, but their bodies are quickened by spirit and not by blood, hence they are

spiritual bodies and not blood bodies. The immortal body is quickened by spirit, but the mortal body

is quickened by blood." (pages 76 and 77).

So Adam had a physical body and a spiritual body but not a blood body before the Fall.

"Now when Adam was in the Garden of Eden, he was not subject to death. There was no blood in his

body and he could have remained there forever. This is true of all the other creations" (page 77).

ADAM: FIRST MAN AND FIRST FLESH

"After the fall ... the forbidden fruit had the power to create blood and change his nature and mortality

took the place of immortality, and all things, partaking of the change, became mortal." (page 77).

AGE OF THE EARTH

"This earth was created on the Lord's time, which is celestial time ... Kolob ... that one revolution was a

day unto the Lord ... it being one thousand years ... and thus shall be the reckoning of the time of one

planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob ..." (page 78).

It appears the earth existed for about 7,000 years in a spiritual state. When Adam fell, the spiritual

earth and everything on it became temporal, or mortal (page 77).

Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden for one thousand years at least in their unfallen state.

AGE OF THE EARTH SINCE ADAM

"We have evidence beyond dispute that Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden about 6,000 years

ago ...In the Book of Revelation, chapters 5 to 10, we have the story of the opening of the seven seals

by the Lamb, each seal representing 1,000 years of the temporal existence of this earth. In the

Doctrines and Covenants, section 88:92-116, we have the confirmation of this ... in section 77:6-15,

we have more information in relation to the opening of these seals" (page 79).

Joseph Fielding Smith did not identify the great earthquake which supposedly happened at the opening

of the sixth period.

TEMPORAL EXISTENCE OF EARTH

"Here is a definite statement by revelation to us that this earth will go through 7,000 years of temporal

existence" (page 80).

MEANING OF THE MERIDIAN OF TIME

"Moreover, our Saviour came in the meridian of time. That dispensation is called the dispensation of the

meridian of time. This means that it was about half way from the beginning of time to the end of time.

Anyone who desires can figure it for himself that the Lord came about 4,000 years from the time of the

fall. The millennium is to come some time following the 2,000 years after his coming. Then there is to

be the millennium for 1,000 years, and following that a little season, the length of time of which is not

revealed, but which may bring time to its end about 8,000 years from the beginning" (page 81).

FOUR STAGES OF EARTH'S EXISTENCE

"1. the creation, 2. the telestial condition, 3. the terrestrial condition, 4. the celestial" (page 82).

WICKED WILL BURN AS STUBBLE

"When Christ comes, the earth will be changed and so will all upon its face. It will become a terrestrial

world then and will so remain for 1,000 years; and all those who have lived a telestial law will be

eliminated" (page 85).

Time is running out to build the temple in New Jerusalem in Independence, Missouri. It is here where

people are taught Jesus will make his first appearance at the Second Coming (Religion 430-431 –

Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, page 101).

CELESTIAL DESTINY OF THE EARTH

"At the end of the world the earth will die ... it will be renewed, or raised with a resurrection. When this

time comes the terrestrial inhabitants will also be taken away and be consigned to another sphere

suited to their condition" (pages 87 and 88).

Presumably those of other earths who lived a celestial law will be taken away from their earths

and brought to our planet Earth.

EARTH TO BE A CELESTIAL SUN

"Who, but the most abandoned, does not desire to be counted worthy to associate with those higher

orders of beings who have been redeemed, exalted, and glorified together with the worlds they inhabit,

ages before the foundations of our earth were laid?" (page 89).

This seems to mean that some brothers and sisters (of Mormons living on planet Earth) became

Gods and Goddesses on some other earths even before their brothers and sisters came down to

our planet Earth in mortal bodies.

Who atoned for these people when Jesus provided the atonement about 2,000 years ago? Or did these

of your brothers and sisters (of the same Heavenly Father as you) have another Jesus on their

earth?

[oremites]

My thought is, "What's your point?"

Also, what does "extra-terrestrial Jesus" even mean? (Other than being a great name for a rock band.)

[volgadon]

Who atoned for these people when Jesus provided the atonement about 2,000 years ago? Or did these

of your brothers and sisters (of the same Heavenly Father as you) have another Jesus on their

earth?

I'm human, so unless you have something you want to tell me, I'm pretty sure you and I are of the same species.

Edited March 8, 2012 by volgadon

[altersteve]

Who atoned for these people when Jesus provided the atonement about 2,000 years ago? Or did these

of your brothers and sisters (of the same Heavenly Father as you) have another Jesus on their

earth?

Jesus Christ atoned for all living things. There is no "other Jesus." See D&C 76:22-24.

[BCSpace]

a) 7,000 years for the temporal existence of earth.

b) believing in an extra-terrestrial Jesus.

c) those who lived a telestial law will be eliminated.

I posted the images to my Facebook.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

The actual doctrine on D&C 77 places the physical creation of the earth outside "temporal time" and this temporal time does not include the earth's preparation (also outside temporal time) as a dwelling place for man. I'd say then that temporal time in this context only refers to God's dealings with man since Adam.

D&C 77:6–7 . Why Was the Book Sealed That John Saw?

“‘The book which John saw’ represented the real history of the world—what the eye of God has seen, what the recording angel has written; and the seven thousand years, corresponding to the seven seals of the Apocalyptic volume, are as seven great days during which Mother Earth will fulfill her mortal mission, laboring six days and resting upon the seventh, her period of sanctification. These seven days do not include the period of our planet’s creation and preparation as a dwelling place for man. They are limited to Earth’s ‘temporal existence,’ that is, to Time, considered as distinct from Eternity.” (Whitney, Saturday Night Thoughts, p. 11.)

http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-071-77.asp

[cinepro]

Five-star rating for this book at Deseret Book:

A wonderful reference book, to help with many things!

Customer, ID - September 27, 2008

This book is excellent. My husband and I have enjoyed reading sections at night and using it for talks and sunday school lessons. It has been a great book to add to our libray, as it's never on the shelf. It has helped me learn more about the Gospel and made it easier to share it with others.

[orion88]

Jesus Christ atoned for all living things. There is no "other Jesus." See D&C 76:22-24.

Mr. Smith taught Heavenly Father provided an atonement for the people on his planet,

showing that he was a type of Jesus figure. Do you believe this?

[Grundelwalken]

I'm really baffled by the posting of this information. Are you saying we should not believe what this prophet has taught or are you stating that you agree with what he said. Other than a few terms that are different, much of what is posted is pretty common belief amongst many of the protestant/evangelicals I know. What's the point of this thread. MW

[orion88]

Are you saying we should not believe what this prophet has taught or are you stating that you agree with what he said. What's the point of this thread.

I'm just quoting some of the teachings of this chapter of Doctrines of Salvation and wonder

if members had any comments on it. I don't necessarily agree with some of his teachings.

In subsequent chapters, I'll clarify my agreement or disagreement. Thanks.

[altersteve]

Mr. Smith taught Heavenly Father provided an atonement for the people on his planet,

showing that he was a type of Jesus figure. Do you believe this?

No, "Mr. Smith" did not teach this. He taught that Heavenly Father died and was resurrected; he never said anything about Heavenly Father providing an atonement to anyone. Even if that were the case, however, I would have no problem believing it, since Jesus Himself implied it when He said that He could do nothing except that which He has seen the Father do. But Heavenly Father is God, and so is Jesus Christ (and the Holy Ghost); these three, and these three alone, make up the Godhead. No others.

[orion88]

No, "Mr. Smith" did not teach this. He taught that Heavenly Father died and was resurrected; he never said anything about Heavenly Father providing an atonement to anyone. Even if that were the case, however, I would have no problem believing it, since Jesus Himself implied it when He said that He could do nothing except that which He has seen the Father do.

If Heavenly Father did not provide an atonement for those on the planet he grew up on,

then who atoned for his sins?

Hypothetically speaking, if LDS theology is true and if you become a Heavenly Father of

your own world, will you instruct your prophets to tell your children that you were always

sinless or that you are a "redeemed-sinner-become-God?"

[Freedom]

This book contains many theories that are not fleshed out in the scriptures so it is difficult to refute or support them.

[cinepro]

If Heavenly Father did not provide an atonement for those on the planet he grew up on,

then who atoned for his sins?

Hypothetically speaking, if LDS theology is true and if you become a Heavenly Father of

your own world, will you instruct your prophets to tell your children that you were always

sinless or that you are a "redeemed-sinner-become-God?"

I'm not going to tell them much. I'll give them hints, but they won't know for sure. And hopefully they won't teach or emphasize what I do tell them.

Edited March 9, 2012 by cinepro

[altersteve]

If Heavenly Father did not provide an atonement for those on the planet he grew up on,

then who atoned for his sins?

I don't believe Heavenly Father was ever a sinner.

Hypothetically speaking, if LDS theology is true and if you become a Heavenly Father of

your own world, will you instruct your prophets to tell your children that you were always

sinless or that you are a "redeemed-sinner-become-God?"

I don't believe that I will ever "become a Heavenly Father of [my] own world." God is my Heavenly Father, just as He is the Heavenly Father of all else.

[orion88]

I don't believe that I will ever "become a Heavenly Father of [my] own world." God is my Heavenly Father, just as He is the Heavenly Father of all else.

Will your spirit children worship you as their Heavenly Father like you worship your Heavenly

Father or will they (unlike you) worship their Heavenly Grandfather?

[mfbukowski]

These are some of what I feel are the key themes:

a) 7,000 years for the temporal existence of earth.

b) believing in an extra-terrestrial Jesus.

c) those who lived a telestial law will be eliminated.

I posted the images to my Facebook.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

HOW EARTHS PASS AWAY

"This earth is a living body. It was created to to become a celestial body and the abode for celestial

beings. Other earths, no doubt, are being prepared as habitations for terrestrial and telestial beings,

for there must be places for those who fail to obtain celestial glory, who receive immortality but not

eternal life" (page 72).

It seems like Earth has preference over other earths because Jesus was crucified on our planet.

I found the latter part of this statement odd because page 85 says that those who lived a

telestial law will be eliminated from their earth. I'll include the quote later.

LIFE, DEATH, AND RESURRECTION OF THE EARTH

"This earth is living and must die ... through the resurrection by which it shall be become celestialized

and the abode of celestial beings" (page 73).

THE LORD'S BLUEPRINT OF CREATION

"Christ created many worlds. No doubt others helped him ..."

ADAM AND OTHERS HELPED IN CREATION

"It is true that Adam helped to form this earth ... I have a strong view or conviction that there were

others who assisted them. Perhaps Noah and Enoch; and why not Joseph Smith" (pages 74 and 75).

SPIRITUAL OR PHYSICAL, AND SPIRIT CREATIONS

"Adam's body was created from the dust of the earth, but at that time it was a spiritual earth. Adam

had spiritual body until mortality came upon him through the violation of the law under which he was

living, but he also had a physical body of flesh and bones." (page 76).

NATURE OF A SPIRITUAL BODY

"Now what is a spiritual body. It is one that is quickened by spirit and not by blood. Our Father in

heaven and our Saviour and all those who have passed through the resurrection have physical

bodies of flesh and bones, but their bodies are quickened by spirit and not by blood, hence they are

spiritual bodies and not blood bodies. The immortal body is quickened by spirit, but the mortal body

is quickened by blood." (pages 76 and 77).

So Adam had a physical body and a spiritual body but not a blood body before the Fall.

"Now when Adam was in the Garden of Eden, he was not subject to death. There was no blood in his

body and he could have remained there forever. This is true of all the other creations" (page 77).

ADAM: FIRST MAN AND FIRST FLESH

"After the fall ... the forbidden fruit had the power to create blood and change his nature and mortality

took the place of immortality, and all things, partaking of the change, became mortal." (page 77).

AGE OF THE EARTH

"This earth was created on the Lord's time, which is celestial time ... Kolob ... that one revolution was a

day unto the Lord ... it being one thousand years ... and thus shall be the reckoning of the time of one

planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob ..." (page 78).

It appears the earth existed for about 7,000 years in a spiritual state. When Adam fell, the spiritual

earth and everything on it became temporal, or mortal (page 77).

Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden for one thousand years at least in their unfallen state.

AGE OF THE EARTH SINCE ADAM

"We have evidence beyond dispute that Adam was driven out of the Garden of Eden about 6,000 years

ago ...In the Book of Revelation, chapters 5 to 10, we have the story of the opening of the seven seals

by the Lamb, each seal representing 1,000 years of the temporal existence of this earth. In the

Doctrines and Covenants, section 88:92-116, we have the confirmation of this ... in section 77:6-15,

we have more information in relation to the opening of these seals" (page 79).

Joseph Fielding Smith did not identify the great earthquake which supposedly happened at the opening

of the sixth period.

TEMPORAL EXISTENCE OF EARTH

"Here is a definite statement by revelation to us that this earth will go through 7,000 years of temporal

existence" (page 80).

MEANING OF THE MERIDIAN OF TIME

"Moreover, our Saviour came in the meridian of time. That dispensation is called the dispensation of the

meridian of time. This means that it was about half way from the beginning of time to the end of time.

Anyone who desires can figure it for himself that the Lord came about 4,000 years from the time of the

fall. The millennium is to come some time following the 2,000 years after his coming. Then there is to

be the millennium for 1,000 years, and following that a little season, the length of time of which is not

revealed, but which may bring time to its end about 8,000 years from the beginning" (page 81).

FOUR STAGES OF EARTH'S EXISTENCE

"1. the creation, 2. the telestial condition, 3. the terrestrial condition, 4. the celestial" (page 82).

WICKED WILL BURN AS STUBBLE

"When Christ comes, the earth will be changed and so will all upon its face. It will become a terrestrial

world then and will so remain for 1,000 years; and all those who have lived a telestial law will be

eliminated" (page 85).

Time is running out to build the temple in New Jerusalem in Independence, Missouri. It is here where

people are taught Jesus will make his first appearance at the Second Coming (Religion 430-431 –

Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, page 101).

CELESTIAL DESTINY OF THE EARTH

"At the end of the world the earth will die ... it will be renewed, or raised with a resurrection. When this

time comes the terrestrial inhabitants will also be taken away and be consigned to another sphere

suited to their condition" (pages 87 and 88).

Presumably those of other earths who lived a celestial law will be taken away from their earths

and brought to our planet Earth.

EARTH TO BE A CELESTIAL SUN

"Who, but the most abandoned, does not desire to be counted worthy to associate with those higher

orders of beings who have been redeemed, exalted, and glorified together with the worlds they inhabit,

ages before the foundations of our earth were laid?" (page 89).

This seems to mean that some brothers and sisters (of Mormons living on planet Earth) became

Gods and Goddesses on some other earths even before their brothers and sisters came down to

our planet Earth in mortal bodies.

Who atoned for these people when Jesus provided the atonement about 2,000 years ago? Or did these

of your brothers and sisters (of the same Heavenly Father as you) have another Jesus on their

earth?

You do understand that concentrating on Doctrines of Salvation does not represent mainstream Mormon thinking right?

I mean I could quote you some Augustine to see if you agreed with that- is THAT a good idea? I mean isn't that where most of Creedal doctrine came from??

[orion88]

You do understand that concentrating on Doctrines of Salvation does not represent mainstream Mormon thinking right?

Most, if not all, of what I see in Gospel Principles and other training manuals of the church

echo what is taught in this book. If some mainstream Mormons find any false doctrines in

DOS, please do tell.

I mean I could quote you some Augustine to see if you agreed with that- is THAT a good idea? I mean isn't that where most of Creedal doctrine came from??

Couldn't hurt.

[mfbukowski]

Couldn't hurt.

Well I guess we could start with unbaptized babies going to hell and burning forever. That's a good one.

But I have found that Protestants pick and choose which Catholic doctrines to believe or not believe or modify or not modify. And on the other hand the doctrine differs from church to church and street corner to street corner.

"One faith one baptism"? Hardly.

So what's your doctrine on that one? Is it "mainline Protestant" or not and who determines that exactly? Who determines "false doctrine" in your church?

Edited March 13, 2012 by mfbukowski

[altersteve]

Will your spirit children worship you as their Heavenly Father like you worship your Heavenly

Father or will they (unlike you) worship their Heavenly Grandfather?

I don't believe I or anyone else will have "spirit children," since, like I said in my last post, God is the Heavenly Father of all. All worship is ultimately reserved for Him alone.

Edited March 13, 2012 by altersteve

[mfbukowski]

Orion

And when you're done with that one please explain what happens to people who do not have the opportunity to hear about Christ.

Like say, someone born in China in 300 BCE. Do they burn in hell or not? And since Protestants disagree about that, how did you come to your beliefs and how do you know you have the right interpretation?

Edited March 13, 2012 by mfbukowski

[KevinG]

Will your spirit children worship you as their Heavenly Father like you worship your Heavenly

Father or will they (unlike you) worship their Heavenly Grandfather?

I can't even get them to do their homework or clean their rooms. I doubt worship is something that will creep in any time soon.

[mfbukowski]

I can't even get them to do their homework or clean their rooms. I doubt worship is something that will creep in any time soon.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Most, if not all, of what I see in Gospel Principles and other training manuals of the church

echo what is taught in this book. If some mainstream Mormons find any false doctrines in

DOS, please do tell.

Couldn't hurt.

So your claiming that the portions you copied in your op are found in the GP manual?

[Grundelwalken]

Hypothetically speaking, if LDS theology is true and if you become a Heavenly Father of

your own world, will you instruct your prophets to tell your children that you were always

sinless or that you are a "redeemed-sinner-become-God?"

First of all, I do not believe that I will become the Heavenly Father of my own world. One day, if I and my wife are able to progress sufficiently, we may be allowed to have "all that God has" as a reward for our acceptance of the Atonement of His Son Jesus Christ. At this present time, I do not know what "all that God has" means in its entirety. I do not think it means that I will rule in a similar way My Father In Heaven rules but I suspect it will be more like a district manager of some of His holdings. If I get there and find out I'm incorrect, I will not be dismayed but will gratefully take whatever He has to offer me (since it will be much better than anything I could imagine on my own).

This whole idea that we want to replace God is nothing more that an effort to distort our religion and the great blessing Father has offered to ALL His children. If you don't want what He has, then enjoy less... but don't expect me to follow you. MW

Edited March 13, 2012 by Grundelwalken

[Calm]

Well I guess we could start with unbaptized babies going to hell and burning forever.

Not a Catholic doctrine, though I've heard it from some Protestants (and it was the cause of my husband's grandmother becoming interested in the LDS faith, they had to bribe a Protestant minister to smuggle their dead unbaptized infant into a hallowed graveyard to be buried, later the missionaries showed up at the door with the question "do you believe in infant baptism" and yelled out as she slammed the door on them "neither do we"....the rest is history).