Some Interesting Numbers

[Saints Alive]

Just did some quick and dirty math to see how long it would take to do all the work for everyone who every lived. here are my findings:

Number of people who have ever lived: 107,602,707,791

Number of temples: 134

Number of members: 14,131,467

Number of ordinances per person: 7,615

Number of patrons per temple: 105,459

If 100 patrons per endowment sessions at 2hrs in length (12 sessions per day): 16,957,760,400 160800(ordinances in a day)

Number of days for all persons to have work done: 765 (endowments only)

Of course this only accounts for an endowment session and not for baptism, confirmation, ordination, and sealings, but even with that it would seem that it would be very possible to do all work for everyone who ever lived inside of a month. I am sure there are some other factors that would both shorten the time and make it longer (like those who died before they were 8, etc.) but it does put things into perspective.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Saints Alive

[LeSellers]

Number of people who have ever lived: 107,602,707,791

That's a very precise number. Where did it come from? I believe it just went up a few thousand, because several more people died in just these last few minutes.

Further, your number of members is possibly accurate, but not germane, since a large percentage of those 14,131,467 are under 19 years old and ineligible to work in the temples. But, then, in the Millennium, there will be far more than 14 million Saints.

Nonetheless, it's good to know that it won't take forever (as some have hypothesized) to fulfill our covenants.

Lehi

[cinepro]

I've seen estimates of 150,000 deaths per day in the world.

So forget about people who have lived before. We'd need 1,000+ proxy ordinances done every day in every Temple just to keep up.

[robuchan]

Just did some quick and dirty math to see how long it would take to do all the work for everyone who every lived. here are my findings:

Number of people who have ever lived: 107,602,707,791

Number of temples: 134

Number of members: 14,131,467

Number of ordinances per person: 7,615

Number of patrons per temple: 105,459

If 100 patrons per endowment sessions at 2hrs in length (12 sessions per day): 16,957,760,400 (ordinances in a day)

Number of days for all persons to have work done: 7

Of course this only accounts for an endowment session and not for baptism, confirmation, ordination, and sealings but even with that it would seem that it would be very possible to do all work for everyone who ever lived inside of a month. I am sure there are some other factors that would both shorten the time and make it longer (like those who died before they were 8, etc.) but it does put things into perspective.

I don't think your numbers are right. Are you assuming unlimited number of temples, ie all 14M members could all be doing endowments simultaneously?

[Saints Alive]

My number was from one of several sites I looked at, they all seem to be between 105 billion and 112 billion. In any case, any number is just an estimate. As you said the point is that it wont take forever and I assume more Temples will be built in the millennium since I am 100% positive that no one temple will hold 105,000 patrons.

[Saints Alive]

I don't think your numbers are right. Are you assuming unlimited number of temples, ie all 14M members could all be doing endowments simultaneously?

no, but I do assume that every temple could process 100 patrons in a 2hr endowment session, which we all know wont happen in every temple

[robuchan]

no, but I do assume that every temple could process 100 patrons in a 2hr endowment session, which we all know wont happen in every temple

134 temples running 12 sessions a day with 100 patrons per session, gets you 160,800 endowments per day. That barely keeps you ahead of the current death rate. And would take 1,800 years going 365 days a year for the backlog of 107B endowments. Am I missing something?

[Saints Alive]

I think you are right, the # of temples would be the limiting factor. however, each member would have to preform 7615 ordinances, if you did ordinances for 20 hrs a day that would be 762 days (not counting the death that occur during that time)

Edited March 1, 2012 by Saints Alive

[LeSellers]

I think you are right, the # of temples would be the limiting factor.

Not as limiting as one would expect from today's situation. Because, as we know, there will be many more temples built between now and the end of the Millennium.

Who'd a thunk we'd have 100 Temples a decade ago? 130? Why is it beyond possibility that we'll have 1,000, or 1,300 long before then?

This probability, coupled with a very much larger number of Saints (not to exclude the return of the "Lost Tribes", if you view the prophecies in this way), and the numbers become much more manageable.

however, each member would have to preform 7615 ordinances, if you did ordinances for 20 hrs a day that would be 762 days.

Which is only two years. We'll have a thousand.

In addition, 20 hours a day is not reasonable. My Jacquie calls me "Marathon Man" because I like doing 4 sessions a day (roughly eight hours). She gets a concentration stress headache after two sessions (four hours). But eight hours is a long time, even for me, although I have performed five sessions, it was a stride-lengthening experience I have no reason to believe I could replicate daily, and ten sessions (20 hours) is physical impossible.

Furthermore, even with ten or twenty thousand Temples (a number I am not proposing), there would not be enough seats for every eligible Saint to actively do that many proxy Endowments.

The Temples will be open around the clock, but I believe we will be resting on the Sabbath, so the number should reflect a greater number of years, even if the days calculation is correct. But it would only extend it by ¹/₇ or 14%.

So, as I said, we will have a thousand years, and it seems we will be busy for most of that time.

Lehi

[Freedom]

We have 1,000 years so I'm not too worried.

[cinepro]

134 temples running 12 sessions a day with 100 patrons per session, gets you 160,800 endowments per day. That barely keeps you ahead of the current death rate. And would take 1,800 years going 365 days a year for the backlog of 107B endowments. Am I missing something?

Temples only run on a 5-day week.

Obviously, this is just a math exercise. I strongly suspect the ordinance work will be very different in the future, such as having a 3 minute endowment ceremony or proxy ordinances that can apply to a million people at once.

[LeSellers]

Temples only run on a 5-day week.

For some Temples, it's much less than that. But this state of affairs has no relatoinship to what will happen in the Millennium.

I strongly suspect the ordinance work will be very different in the future, such as having a 3 minute endowment ceremony or proxy ordinances that can apply to a million people at once.

Poppyco¢k!

Each ordinance applies to one, and exactly one, person. Your scenario, nor any like it, will never happen.

Lehi

[Saints Alive]

I could see the session being shorter than it is now but it would seem that everyone would need their own ordinance.

[cinepro]

I could see the session being shorter than it is now but it would seem that everyone would need their own ordinance.

Not really. The proxy ordinance is just symbolic; they're not actually "getting" anything. They are just accepting an ordinance that someone else has done.

If I perform a proxy baptism for Bob Smith who lived in England in 1612, the spirit of Bob Smith can presumably point to that proxy ordinance and say "I accept that". There's no reason I couldn't perform a proxy baptism on behalf of everyone who lived in England between 1610-1675, and all those spirits could point to that proxy ordinance and choose to accept it or not.

Just look at the most important ordinance in the history of the universe: the Atonement. This was a single act performed by Jesus, but it is up to the billions of us to choose for ourselves whether we accept it. Jesus didn't have to perform billions of individual little atonements. It's possible for one such act to apply to many different souls.

I suspect the 1:1 proxy ordinance rule is done more for our benefit. But in the eternal scheme of things, it probably doesn't make much difference.

[KevinG]

How many resurrected temple workers can dance on the head of a pin?

[The Nehor]

Not really. The proxy ordinance is just symbolic; they're not actually "getting" anything. They are just accepting an ordinance that someone else has done.

If I perform a proxy baptism for Bob Smith who lived in England in 1612, the spirit of Bob Smith can presumably point to that proxy ordinance and say "I accept that". There's no reason I couldn't perform a proxy baptism on behalf of everyone who lived in England between 1610-1675, and all those spirits could point to that proxy ordinance and choose to accept it or not.

I would say there is no reason you can think of that you can't. I can't see any reason either but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Just look at the most important ordinance in the history of the universe: the Atonement. This was a single act performed by Jesus, but it is up to the billions of us to choose for ourselves whether we accept it. Jesus didn't have to perform billions of individual little atonements. It's possible for one such act to apply to many different souls.

We don't know that for sure. Maybe the atonement was billions of atonements done sequentially. I doubt it but it is possible.

[blackstrap]

Perhaps in the millenium,we will only need to baptize those who are accepting the ordinance. Also,those who died under the age of 8,won't need baptism so that will lessen the numbers to what? 70-80%?

[BCSpace]

Number of members: 14,131,467

Perhaps only a third of those are actual TR holders (my anecdotal experience of every Stake and Ward I served in). And then most of those go once a month or less (anecdotal).

Also,those who died under the age of 8,won't need baptism so that will lessen the numbers to what? 70-80%?

I can't help but wonder if such get baptism anyway when they grow up. Already being in the CK would seem to indicate not, yet, such is still a general requirement.

[cdowis]

100 patrons per session? Which temples can physically hold that many patrons.

[Saints Alive]

Post-millennial temples

[LeSellers]

100 patrons per session? Which temples can physically hold that many patrons.

Each Ordinance Room in Denver holds 96 without adding any folding chairs. With them, the number rises to 104.

Denver is not a large Temple. I cannot recall the seating capacity of Oakland, but it is far higher (for two of the four rooms: the others are much smaller). Salt Lake City is also much larger, although it's a bit more difficult to measure and compare there because we have a live endowment presentation there, and so, I believe, takes longer.

Lehi

[sandsoul]

This community is shaky , they focu and concetrate on numbers and counting ,

But inside it is just not clearly pay attention of the innocient needs

ive been investigate and i loved this community ..

but what happened is that i found my self as number not more than this ...

im sorry to say this , but ive been disappointed ..

You need to be more clear or you will be removed for being off-topic.

[Freedom]

This community is shaky , they focu and concetrate on numbers and counting ,

But inside it is just not clearly pay attention of the innocient needs

ive been investigate and i loved this community ..

but what happened is that i found my self as number not more than this ...

im sorry to say this , but ive been disappointed ..

So are you suggesting that true Christians can never consider the logistics of any labor? Even when feeding the poor, you have to count the loaves of bread.

[zerinus]

Just did some quick and dirty math to see how long it would take to do all the work for everyone who every lived. here are my findings:

Number of people who have ever lived: 107,602,707,791

Number of temples: 134

Number of members: 14,131,467

Number of ordinances per person: 7,615

Number of patrons per temple: 105,459

If 100 patrons per endowment sessions at 2hrs in length (12 sessions per day): 16,957,760,400 160800(ordinances in a day)

Number of days for all persons to have work done: 765 (endowments only)

Of course this only accounts for an endowment session and not for baptism, confirmation, ordination, and sealings, but even with that it would seem that it would be very possible to do all work for everyone who ever lived inside of a month. I am sure there are some other factors that would both shorten the time and make it longer (like those who died before they were 8, etc.) but it does put things into perspective.

When I joined the Church forty years ago, there were just over three million members, and 14 operating temples. If you had carried out your calculations then, what do you think the results would have shown? Given the exponential growth rate of the Church, what do you think the figures would show if you did your calculations in forty years from now? How about 100 years from now? How about 200 years from now? Do you think that the Second Coming will have taken place by then? It hasn't happened during the past 200 years; so what makes you so sure it will happen during the next 200 years?

Edited March 8, 2012 by zerinus

[LeSellers]

Did you remember to subtract celebrities and Jews?

From what?

Please use the "Quote" feature so we know what you are addressing. Otherwise, your posts make no sense at all.

Lehi