Why Burried Metal Plates?

[inquiringmind]

I've never understood why the burial and preservation of the metal plates was important, if their location was only to be revealed by an angel, they were to be seen by only a handful of witnesses, the content of what was written was to be dictated by God to an unlettered farm boy, and then they were to be taken back by the angel who revealed them.

I think this is what critics like Rob Bowmen mean when they say the plates are superfluous.

Joseph could have been given the whole history of the Lehites, and told to write every word, without any plates being buried, found, and taken away.

This is how Mormons believe the Doctrine and Covenants were written, how Muslims believe the Quran was written, and how most Christians and Jews believe the Bible (or parts of it, like Genesis) was written.

I've been told that the angel Moroni took the plates back so that men wouldn't destroy them, but that too seems to imply that there's some purpose in preserving these plates.

My question is "what's the purpose"?

Why were the plates preserved for all those centuries to begin with?

Is there any latter day prophecy that might explain this?

Are the plates meant to be found at some point in the future (before the second coming)?

Will the hill Cumorah be found?

Edited February 25, 2012 by inquiringmind

[zerinus]

I've never understood why the burial and preservation of the metal plates was important, if their location was only to be revealed by an angel, they were to be seen by only a handful of witnesses, the content of what was written was to be dictated by God to an unlettered farm boy, and then they were to be taken back by the angel who revealed them.

I think this is what critics like Rob Bowmen mean when they say the plates are superfluous.

Joseph could have been given the whole story, and told to write every word, without any plates being buried, found, and taken away.

This is how Mormons believe the Doctrine and Covenants were written, how Muslims believe the Quran was written, and how most Christians and Jews believe the Bible (or parts of it, like Genesis) was written.

I've been told that the angel Moroni took the plates back so that men wouldn't destroy them, but that too seems to imply that there's some purpose in preserving these plates.

My question is "what's the purpose"?

Why were the plates preserved for all those centuries to begin with?

Is there any latter day prophecy that might explain this?

The book of Mormon does.

Are the plates meant to be found at some point in the future (before the second coming)?

Yes.

Will the hill Cumorah be found?

I thought it already was!

Edited February 25, 2012 by zerinus

[Calm]

One could ask the same thing about the tablets of stone or the cloud that led the Israelites. If God is involved, why does a prophet need anything else to convince himself or others? He can just tell believers what God has instructed him, no need for anything concrete to enter into the story.

Do you not find the testimony of the witnesses useful in exploring whether or not Joseph Smith created the story himself or was telling the truth? The testimonies are of two kinds, spiritual with the presence of the angel who tells the three witnesses the truth of the translation while with the 11 there is no angelic visitation, no special conditions, just a group of men who can testify that they saw that the plates existed, they cannot testify to the accuracy of the translation because even though they saw the engravings, they themselves could not understand what they say. You have the reality of the plates to begin with and then you have the next step of determining whether or not the plates were what JS said they were being in part dependent on the testimony of three men to the appearance of an angel.

So one could conclude that the plates themselves were the first layer of evidence in favour of JS being a prophet with that implies for what comes after.

The plates likely also served as an aid to JS if he ever doubted his calling in the beginning or even whether or not his visions were his imagination. If the plates were right in front of him, there for him to touch and turn the pages, he could hardly doubt that he had been led to them by the will of the Lord (assuming he told the truth and just didn't stumble across them or otherwise find them on his own). So they were a support to Joseph as well if he was what he said he was.

Edited February 25, 2012 by calmoriah

[inquiringmind]

Are the plates meant to be found at some point in the future (before the second coming)?

Yes.

Please tell me more.

Edited February 25, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Calm]

LDS also believe there is a purpose to having written records in and of themselves. There were a lot more records being kept by the Nephites than ended up in the box opened by JS. What is the purpose of those records and could not the plates share in that purpose as well?

[inquiringmind]

One could ask the same thing about the tablets of stone or the cloud that led the Israelites.

The cloud served it's purpose for forty years (and was seen by the whole nation for a generation), and I don't get you're point about the tablets either.

Their contents weren't lost for centuries, we don't know if they were preserved, and no one ever claimed they played any role in restoring the commandments after they were lost (only to disappear again.)

Do you not find the testimony of the witnesses useful in exploring whether or not Joseph Smith created the story himself or was telling the truth?

I think the existence of the plates in a modern museum would be far more useful then the testimony of less than a dozen family and friends.

Edited February 25, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Calm]

I think the existence of the plates in a modern museum would be far more useful then the testimony of less than a dozen family and friends.

If the only thing that was important to God was proof that the plates existed, etc. then I would agree with you.

But what is most important to God, in my opinion, is his relationship with his children and concrete evidence only takes that so far and can even get in the way of seeking personal interaction.

Edited February 25, 2012 by calmoriah

[Duncan]

I suppose Moroni could have left them in a storage unit for 1600 years only to be bid on by Joseph Smith and he found them that way only to go to the internet and get them translated that way and then when he is done with them run off to Vegas to pawn them off. Seriously though, I don't know why God had the New testatment come from what is now non existant original manuscripts or why Hollywood continues to exist making mind numbingly lame movies

[Tepui]

Why were the plates preserved for all those centuries to begin with?

Is there any latter day prophecy that might explain this?

Are the plates meant to be found at some point in the future (before the second coming)?

2 Nephi 27:10

But the words which are

a

sealed

he shall not deliver, neither shall he deliver the book. For the book shall be sealed by the power of God, and the revelation which was sealed shall be kept in the book until the own due time of the Lord, that they may come forth; for behold, they

b

reveal

all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof.

Will the hill Cumorah be found?

It's been found by the LDS Church. But not according to FARMS(MI)/FAIR/BMAF.

The golden plates containing the Book of Mormon were buried in the Hill Cumorah, about three miles southeast of the Smith family farm.

FAIR believes the Hill Cumorah is just a pile of gravel:

It is comprised of gravel and earth. Geologically, it is impossible for the hill to have a cave, and all those who have gone in search of the cave have come back empty-handed.

As noted, they think that "all those" who have searched for a cave, should not have come back empty-handed. But they have no other alternative hill. Just someplace in mesoamerica.

If you can find that hill in mesoamerica, then you should not come back empty-handed.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Tepui

[inquiringmind]

Thanks Tepui.

Edited February 25, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Tepui]

You're welcome.

[Grundelwalken]

I suppose Moroni could have left them in a storage unit for 1600 years only to be bid on by Joseph Smith and he found them that way only to go to the internet and get them translated that way and then when he is done with them run off to Vegas to pawn them off. Seriously though, I don't know why God had the New testatment come from what is now non existant original manuscripts or why Hollywood continues to exist making mind numbingly lame movies

Wow, someone has been watching a lot of Discovery Channel. MW

[Duncan]

Wow, someone has been watching a lot of Discovery Channel. MW

history channel and I have an imagination!

[CV75]

My question is "what's the purpose"?

Because language and writing are divine institutions serving as a connection between heaven and earth, and as such, the most holy communications (in both spiritual and temporal formats) involve priesthood keys (3 Nephi 24:13 / Malachi 3:16; Moses 6:5-9, 46, 61, 63, 67, 68).

The preservation of plates on earth and their protection in heaven are exactly how the high priesthood works. Note the eternal significance of combining such temporal and spiritual elements as blood, water and spirit so as to exist in either plane—all this has to do with binding and releasing on earth and in heaven.

And if this is so, then D&C 76:7 applies, and: there is latter day prophecy that might explain this, in the vey least in the form of the Gift of the Holy Ghost; the phsysical plates are meant to be relocated, seen, felt and handled by those who qualify to do so, just as the ark of the covenant; and, the Hill Cumorah will be identified by the same, for what it is.

Edited February 26, 2012 by CV75

[cinepro]

I've never understood why the burial and preservation of the metal plates was important, if their location was only to be revealed by an angel, they were to be seen by only a handful of witnesses, the content of what was written was to be dictated by God to an unlettered farm boy, and then they were to be taken back by the angel who revealed them.

Without the plates, Joseph might not be any more well known than a housewife with a ouija board.

For me, I don't find anything odd about Joseph and the plates and papyri. I do, however, find the subsequent 15 plate-less and papyri-less prophets exceedingly unusual.

Edited February 26, 2012 by cinepro

[RadioFreeDeath]

Also theres Isaiah 29:4, If i understand it correctly than theres a prophecy that needs fulfilling. And if it doesn't come from the dust it wouldn't fulfill the prophecy.

[altersteve]

Also theres Isaiah 29:4, If i understand it correctly than theres a prophecy that needs fulfilling. And if it doesn't come from the dust it wouldn't fulfill the prophecy.

This prophecy was fulfilled the second the golden plates were unearthed by Joseph Smith.

[CV75]

Just as the Lord accommodated the brother of Jared’s solution to providing light in the barge (Ether 3:3-6, and note the association of this event with writing, preserving and translating scripture in verses 22-28), He accommodated the Book or Mormon prophets’ solution to providing light through the centuries to their descendants (and leveraged it for the benefit of the whole world--see D&C 3:19-20; D&C 10:45-50; Enos 1:13-18; 3 Nephi 5:13-15). Of course the Lord could have provided light and revealed gospel truth through other means, but there is a reason He works according to the faith men put in Him (see Alma 37:7; Mosiah 8:18), which is to help them develop and be part of His work according to their faith and capacity.

Edited February 26, 2012 by CV75

[zerinus]

Are the plates meant to be found at some point in the future (before the second coming)?

Yes.

Please tell me more.

Well, it has been prophesied that the sealed portion of the plates are to be translated at some future date; and I don't suppose they could be unless the plates were somehow "found". LOL!

But there is also a more interesting side to this story. Moroni says of the original plates of the book of Ether, that "whoso findeth them, the same will have power that he may get the full account" (Ether 1:4). This implies that the original plates of the book of Ether have been hidden separately from the rest of the Nephite plates, and someone is expected to be able to find them; and that whoever does the "finding," may be acting independently, not officially on behalf of the LDS Church. Amazing!

[Avatar4321]

I think the existence of the plates in a modern museum would be far more useful then the testimony of less than a dozen family and friends.

And the living Christ walking up to every single person and letting them feel the wounds in his hands and feet would be alot more persuasive than him showing himself to a few dozen disciples and telling them to testify of the resurrection in every nation. But that's not how God works.

If all God wanted, was for us to know, He could have angels trumpetting the truth to every person on earth this second. But He is trying to teach us the important of exercising faith and trusting in Him. He is also giving mercy to those who don't recieve such witnesses that they are not held to the standard that those who have recieved the witnesses are.

The Book of Mormon is primarily a testimony of Jesus Christ. It seems only appropriate that like Christ, it has 12 witnesses.