ksfisher Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 ...and if Amulek did have more than one wife, Alma doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
LeSellers Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) ...and if Amulek did have more than one wife, Alma doesn't seem to have a problem with it.Amulek's family was killed, including his wife/ves, or they rejected his new-found zeal and "divorced" him. Nothing to worry about.Lehi Edited December 23, 2011 by LeSellers
volgadon Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 Amulek's family was killed, including his wife/ves, or they rejected his new-found zeal and "divorced" him. Nothing to worry about.LehiRevolting cynicism.
LeSellers Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 Revolting cynicism.Can you say it more soothingly?Lehi
ksfisher Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 Amulek's family was killed, including his wife/ves, or they rejected his new-found zeal and "divorced" him. Nothing to worry about.LehiI'm not aware of the Book of Mormon making any such statements. Alma 15:16 says that his father and kindred rejected him, but nothing about a wife or wives. Alma 14:8-10 make not mention of any of Amulek's family being martyred.
LeSellers Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 I'm not aware of the Book of Mormon making any such statements. Alma 15:16 says that his father and kindred rejected him, but nothing about a wife or wives. Alma 14:8-10 make not mention of any of Amulek's family being martyred.Neither does it say anything about his family any place after ch 8. We can assume one of two things: either they converted and were burned, or they did not and rejected him.If there is another option, please show it.Lehi
ksfisher Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 Neither does it say anything about his family any place after ch 8. We can assume one of two things: either they converted and were burned, or they did not and rejected him. If there is another option, please show it. LehiGiven Mormon's silence on the subject I'm sure that many possible alternatives exist.But, while in this apostate city, Alma never preaches against polygamy. This may be seen as an indication that polygamy was not considered abnormal at this time in Nephite history. That is, if Amulek did have multiple wives.
LeSellers Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 Given Mormon's silence on the subject I'm sure that many possible alternatives exist.I'd be pleased to see any of them. There is, for instance, no indication or reason for us to assume, that Amulek's family fled before the pogrom. It's possible, I suppose, that Amulek was a widower, but that seems remote to the point of triviality.But, while in this apostate city, Alma never preaches against polygamy. This may be seen as an indication that polygamy was not considered abnormal at this time in Nephite history. That is, if Amulek did have multiple wives.I'd counter that, before worrying about polygyny, it would be more important for Alma (and Amulek) to convince the people they needed to listen and accept the Gospel.In every case where a prophet condemns the people's marriage practices, it was only after a conversion. It was so with Jacob, and it was the same when the Jews were convinced to give up their "foreign" wives.Lehi
volgadon Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 Neither does it say anything about his family any place after ch 8. We can assume one of two things: either they converted and were burned, or they did not and rejected him.If there is another option, please show it.LehiThey were unimportant to the record's purpose.
Bob Oliverio Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 I think an interesting topic would be to identify and analyze what doctrine issues and their impact that the BOM brought to us that we did not already have provided to us from the Bible. This would go a long way to address our critics and even help many of us to understand what is meant by the statement - "restored fullness of the gospel". But that's for the smart guys to explain.
volgadon Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 Can you say it more soothingly?LehiI could, of course, say it more soothingly. Would I? A different matter entirely.
cdowis Posted December 24, 2011 Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) If Amulek did indeed have more than one wife, would this indicate that the earlier Nephite prohibition against this practice had been relaxed after several hundred years in the Americas?Did you read about Amulek's background? Where was he living. What was going on in that city -- what was the relationship between this city and the other Nephites. When was he converted or was he always faithful to the church's teachings.Does it make sense to take him as a example of what was happening with the Nephites in general?In SS, I have to bite my tongue when I hear such shallow comments. Edited December 24, 2011 by cdowis
ksfisher Posted December 24, 2011 Posted December 24, 2011 Did you read about Amulek's background? Where was he living. What was going on in that city -- what was the relationship between this city and the other Nephites. When was he converted or was he always faithful to the church's teachings.Does it make sense to take him as a example of what was happening with the Nephites in general?In SS, I have to bite my tongue when I hear such shallow comments.I'm sorry that you found my comment so shallow. It was meant as a starting point for a discussion, not as any sort of conclusion about Nephite culture or morals. Obviously with so little said about marriage practices any discussion is going to be based on conjecture and limited evidence.
cdowis Posted December 25, 2011 Posted December 25, 2011 I agree, that would make sense. What doesn't make sense is that the BOM, arguably the restored "fullness" of the gospel, You misunderstand what this means.1. Look up "fullness" in the dictionary. It does not mean what you think. 2. The BOM gives us the "fullness" of the doctrine of Christ. Now look in the BOM for what constitutes "my doctrine", the doctrine of Christ. It does not mean what you think.
zerinus Posted December 26, 2011 Posted December 26, 2011 (edited) I know of none, but Lehi, father of Nephi, may have had at least two wives, Sariah, mother of Laman, Lemuel, Sam, and Nephi, and another, mother of Jacob and Joseph.I base this on two things, both of which happened on the sea voyage from Bountiful to the Promised Land. Nephi tells us that the two children were in danger because their mother was suffering and could not nurse them.The use of "their mother", rather than "our mother" or "my mother", is odd. Nephi, as vi Jew, didn't speak of women much at all, but he did talk about his mother, and he called her "my mother", but not here. One wonders why.I don't see it. Here is the passage:1 Nephi 18:17 Now my father, Lehi, had said many things unto them, and also unto the sons of Ishmael; but, behold, they did breathe out much threatenings against anyone that should speak for me; and my parents being stricken in years, and having suffered much grief because of their children, they were brought down, yea, even upon their sick-beds.18 Because of their grief and much sorrow, and the iniquity of my brethren, they were brought near even to be carried out of this time to meet their God; yea, their grey hairs were about to be brought down to lie low in the dust; yea, even they were near to be cast with sorrow into a watery grave.19 And Jacob and Joseph also, being young, having need of much nourishment, were grieved because of the afflictions of their mother; and also my wife with her tears and prayers, and also my children, did not soften the hearts of my brethren that they would loose me.Since the focus of the attention is on the two younger children, "their mother" appears to be the most appropriate expression to be used.Second, Sariah was aged, right along with Lehi. It seems odd that she would bear children so late in life. Not unheard of, certainly, but odd nonetheless. A secodnm wife for Lehi would have been able to have those sons. It was no moral problem.I don't see that either. At the beginning of their journey, Nephi describes himself as being "exceedingly young:"1 Nephi 2:16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers.How young that would be is anybody's guess; but I would say that he was in his early teens. His older brothers, Laman and Lemuel, do not appear to have been substantially older than him either; I would say in the early twenties. And bearing in mind that women got married very young those days, Nephi's mother need not have been more than 45 at the most when Lehi left Jerusalem; and therefore still within child-bearing age.The Lehiytes in southern Yemen have a tradition of a prophet named Yud (aIr), which means "the Jew". The name evokes Lehi, and, if we assume the Lehites of Jerusalem preached the Gospel and made Semitic converts, it is no problem for Lehi to have taken a bride from among these people.More weird stuff and baseless speculation. Edited December 26, 2011 by zerinus
blackstrap Posted December 27, 2011 Posted December 27, 2011 They were unimportant to the record's purpose.And yet,we have the truely valuable information found in 4 Nephi 1:6 and Mormon 6:11-14.For a record that was limited in size and reportedly hard to inscribe on,some choices are conspicuous by their absence.
Bill Hamblin Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 YouTube on 1 Nephi 1:1-4 Other notes at:https://mormonscriptureexplorations.wordpress.com/2011/12/29/1-nephi-11-4/
Bill Hamblin Posted December 30, 2011 Author Posted December 30, 2011 Materials and video link on 1 Nephi 1:5-20https://mormonscriptureexplorations.wordpress.com/2011/12/29/1-nephi-15-20/An examination of the visions and preaching of Lehi; exploration of the Jewish exoteric background--temple theophany, apocalyptic vision, celestial ascent, throne theophany, divine council, sod/mysteries, Host of Heaven, heavenly book, and Messiah.
Bill Hamblin Posted December 31, 2011 Author Posted December 31, 2011 New material on 1 Nephi 2.Web page: https://mormonscriptureexplorations.wordpress.com/Video:
Bill Hamblin Posted January 1, 2012 Author Posted January 1, 2012 New Notes and Video on 1 Nephi 3http://mormonscriptureexplorations.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/126/
Xioneye Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Bill, did you have me banished from the Backyard Professor thread? Why?I don't know about the other thread, but you're banned from this one.
Bill Hamblin Posted January 2, 2012 Author Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) Bill, did you have me banished from the Backyard Professor thread? Why?I don't know about the other thread, but you're banned from this one.Alas, I cannot banish anyone from anywhere. The Mod giveth and the Mod taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Mod!(Only the Moderators can banish, except on the "Focused" forum. Edited January 2, 2012 by Bill Hamblin 1
zerinus Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Alas, I cannot banish anyone from anywhere. The Mod giveth and the Mod taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Mod!(Only the Moderators can banish, except on the "Focused" forum.Do you think that Kerry Shirts and Louis Midgley will approve of your attempt at Book of Mormon commentary?
Senator Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 Do you think that Kerry Shirts and Louis Midgley will approve of your attempt at Book of Mormon commentary?If he managed to muster more than a burp out of concern I would be very surprised......and dissapointed.
Calm Posted January 2, 2012 Posted January 2, 2012 If he managed to muster more than a burp out of concern I would be very surprised......and dissapointed.I suspect both of them applaud the attempt considering their own efforts in adding to our knowledge.
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