Pros And Cons Of Chruch Schools

[Saints Alive]

What are the Pros and Cons of the church owned schools (BYU, BYUI, BYUH, LDS Buisness college)?

What are the Pros and Cons of any church run / owned School (i.e. non-LDS colleges)?

[KevinG]

They are a great place to study with a variety of Saints from around the world. You have to adhere to some strict personal standards but that isn't a problem for most.

The campuses are clean and for the most part very safe. Being exposes to a hard party culture is not a problem (unless you want to be exposes to one).

I was bothered by the hypocrisy of some of my fellow students who chose to flaunt their disbelief or critical stance of the Church privately but who wanted to go to school there so they acted differently in public. I wished they had left a space for other students who really wanted to be there and follow the rules.

Some professors seemed to revel in telling faithful LDS students how ignorant they were (really- at a church school).

Those problems are minor compared to the opportunity to be in a LDS friendly environment and get a good education.

The quality of BYU courses in class and on line is recognized as high around the world.

After all is said and done having BYU on my resume has probably gotten me as many jobs as it has lost me jobs.

Edited December 15, 2011 by DaddyG

[LeSellers]

What are the Pros and Cons of any [private] School?

They're funded by voluntary contributions, not coerced taxation (redundant, to make a point), as all government schools (whether K-12, community colleges, or universities). They can teach what the students and their parents (who pay the bills) want, rather than what some faceless bureaucrats and politicians determine is "the truth". They can hire people based on true merit, rather than a politically correct formula. They can fire teachers who do not successfully teach, even when they've been there for years.

Lehi

[Mansquatch]

Sorry I have to do it:

Pro: they teach you how to spell "church" correctly

Someone had to

[frankenstein]

many a LDS person has stopped to think twice about tithing when they learn their tithing goes to pay for BYU's. (coercion is in the eye of the coerced)

President Hinckley stated to stay near ones home and build up the institute program, then if after two years or so (I assume he was refering to getting generals out of the way) IF a BYU is the best school for your degree/educational aspirations then apply. He stressed that LDS should not feel obligated to go to a BYU.

LDS schools, I think (excluding BYU-I) are a good place for LDS who never experience being around a lot of LDS.

Cons:

You can not live where you want; your living quarters are determined by the School.

Your landlard will spy on you and claim it is their right and responsibility; to include monitoring your online activities.

Your roommates will spy on you.

All this spying is based on the false premise that doing such is living the Gospel.

The snobbery, elitism, and self righteousness found in BYU alum i.e. "I went to the Lords school, you did not, therefore you are a sinner" (In a singles stake I was in a group of BYU alum formed their own secret society for the alum to date each other and such)

Pros:

If you did not grow up with lots of LDS that is your chance

As with all places you find what you are looking for (I know a person who planted marijuana on BYU campus, this person is now a professional Scout)

[KevinG]

Lehi,

In my experience at a state college and BYU there was a comparable mix of true educators and ideologues. There is no perfect educational community to be found. Our students need to be wise as serpents and gentle as lambs.

[KevinG]

The snobbery, elitism, and self righteousness found in BYU alum i.e. "I went to the Lords school, you did not, therefore you are a sinner" (In a singles stake I was in a group of BYU alum formed their own secret society for the alum to date each other and such)

They were just trying to be more like Yale.

[LeSellers]

In my experience at a state college and BYU there was a comparable mix of true educators and ideologues. There is no perfect educational community to be found. Our students need to be wise as serpents and gentle as lambs.

"True educators" and "ideologues" are not mutually exclusive categories.

The difference between government schools and church-owned and other private schools is which ideology they hold and inculcate on their students.

Lehi

[KevinG]

"True educators" and "ideologues" are not mutually exclusive categories.

The difference between government schools and church-owned and other private schools is which ideology they hold and inculcate on their students.

Lehi

Let me be more specific. I had to suffer through more openly liberal professors at BYU than I ever did at the University of Illinois. At BYU it seemed people were afraid to touch the radicals including one that had "rules for radicals" in their reading list.

Still - I think BYU serves a great purpose for mingling young Saints from all over the world, giving them a unique education in a Mormon based culture then sending them into the world to do good. The occasional marriage isn't a bad side benefit.

Edited December 15, 2011 by DaddyG

[thesometimesaint]

Back in dinosaur time when I went to BYU. I had the choice of a UC or BYU. I chose BYU.

Pro's.

High quality education.

Relatively cheap tuition for a private university.

A high sense of community.

If you live on campus class distances are very short.

Con's:

It is relatively expensive compared to public universities.

Lack of diversity.

For some it can be very claustrophobic

[Messenger]

If you really think about it, there arent anymore "church schools". They have legally separated themselves from the church protecting the church from lawsuits. I dont have time to dig up the legal stuff. But Im sure someone could research it.

[Saints Alive]

If you really think about it, there arent anymore "church schools". They have legally separated themselves from the church protecting the church from lawsuits. I dont have time to dig up the legal stuff. But Im sure someone could research it.

They might be different entities legally but many are still very much controlled by their sponsoring religion. The catholic church that doesn't want to provide birth control in its university clinics.

[BCSpace]

Sorry I have to do it:

Pro: they teach you how to spell "church" correctly

Someone had to

My problem is that one of my typing fingers is faster than the other. So yes, I do know how to spell Church but it often comes out as Chruch and sometimes I don't catch it.

[Sine Saw Square]

I graduated from the visual art/design school at BYU. Artists tend to be kind of crazy. We were definitely wacky compared to the "typical" BYU student but very tame by other art school standards. I'm glad I didn't have to put up with some of that stuff.

Pros:

I agree with Frankenstein that it's a chance to experience life with a lot of other members. A nice change for young adult who grew up outside of Utah.

Being an alumni gives you a smug sense of superiority in knowing YOU went to the Lords school and the sinners around you didn't. (I kid! I kid! If anything, explaining to people what school you went to, when met with a blank stare, get's tiring- I think some non-members I meet through work don't think of it as a 'real' school).

I think the professors there give you a fairly balanced range of views on subjects. Neither proselytizing for the left or right, except maybe in the Religion department J/K!

The International Cinema at BYU was a frequent haunt of mine. It was free and was my first taste of a lot of amazing directors and foreign genres.

Cons:

At least in Provo (and from what I hear in Idaho) very little in the way of an off-campus 'college' scene. Weekends consisted of most students just hanging out with their own wards (read: apartment building) watching movies.

The parking or lack thereof.

[ged1650]

I went to a state school (UVSC at the time). I live in Mi now and I can send my kids to school in Ut and pay out of state tuition cheaper than I can send them to a 4 year state school in Mi. BYU (whether Provo or Ricks) gives us even a better option. The education is excellent, it's cheap, and they can meet an LDS spouse easier than in Mi.

[Saints Alive]

...and they can meet an LDS spouse easier than in Mi.

Is that the purpose of sending our kids to college?

[silvermoon383]

To many apparently. Pretty much every time I bring up my age in relation to my single status someone will say I should go to BYU to get a masters.

[blackstrap]

BC .. are you telling us you are Saints Alive or just commiserating?

Is that the purpose of sending our kids to college?

It is better to marry than to burn

It is better to marry than to yearn

It is better to marry than to ........learn (oops)

[Garden Girl]

Back in dinosaur time when I went to BYU. I had the choice of a UC or BYU. I chose BYU.

Talk about dinosaur time!! How about 1958-59!

I think there might have been 10,000 students at best when I attended. In my time, girls went to BYU mainly to find a husband, and it was a wonderful place to do so. That was not unusual because the general culture at the time was that few girls went on to college for "careers." Emphasis was on getting married... and many girls married their high school sweethearts (and 10 years later many were divorced).

Since those days, girls graduating from high school have a variety of choices not as easily or culturally available to my generation, particularly to go on to a university and pursue a career. (Anyone see "Mona Lisa Smile" starring Julia Roberts... that was my generation's attitude). The little campus in Provo that I loved has now grown considerably... the curriculum has improved immensely... the quality of the education is recognized nationally in many areas, i.e., the Business School etc.

Students today still have the opportunity to find a spouse in an environment where one is most likely to share the same values and beliefs (whether attending BYU or another "church school"). I agree with the other "pros" listed, and only a few of the cons because the pros outweigh them considerably IMO. The environment, culture, and safety of a church school allows young people an opportunity to grow intellectually and in maturity in relative safety.

from the beach on a gray, windy morning... GG

I still love BYU and am nuts about BYU sports... men's and women's.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Garden Girl

[cinepro]

My biggest problem with the "Church schools" comes from great number of students who wish to attend them (which is naturally a result of all the positives noted in previous posts). As that number has increased, and a smaller and smaller percentage of LDS men and women can attend them, and as the Church has grown worldwide thus (theoretically) spreading out tithing donations across the world, it becomes a benefit which many more are funding for fewer and fewer to benefit from.

I understand that non-members pay more at BYU, which means members have theoretically had their tuition subsidized by tithing they (or their families) have paid over the years. But I'm not aware of any scriptures that classify tithing as a quasi-college-savings account, and at some point the great demand for admittance to BYU may need to be tempered with much higher tuition to make it more fair for everyone.

Edited December 18, 2011 by cinepro

[Deborah]

Cons:

You can not live where you want; your living quarters are determined by the School.

Your landlard will spy on you and claim it is their right and responsibility; to include monitoring your online activities.

Your roommates will spy on you.

Wow! I never experienced any of those things and I went back in the day when the school was more conservative than it is now. Except for my Freshman year I lived off campus. Even on campus I had upperclass roomates who would sneak me in when I came in past curfew for Freshmen. The curfew was what made me move off campus. I never had one growing up and it was very irritating since all my roomates had later hours. I don't even know that they have a curfew now. I certainly never had a landlord spy on me.

The snobbery, elitism, and self righteousness found in BYU alum i.e. "I went to the Lords school, you did not, therefore you are a sinner"

I never experienced this either. Either we have totally different experiences or perhaps we interpret those experiences differently.

What I loved about BYU were the religion classes. I took as many as I could, even over the required number. I also loved the library. I loved the activities. I'm glad the church has tithing sponsored church schools. I don't mind that my tithing goes to this, even though I've only had one child go to BYU. I think it is great there is an opportunity for a different environment than what the world offers. I also found that you got what you looked for there. For those of us looking for a church-like environment it was great. For those looking to mock all things church they found that, but as someone else said I wish they would have been honest and gone elsewhere so they could leave room for someone who really wanted to be at BYU.

[Saints Alive]

Is it time for BYU to expand? Perhaps a campus in every state?

[LeSellers]

Is it time for BYU to expand? Perhaps a campus in every state?

Southern Virginia University shows this is not necessary.

It's not alone. There are also Monticello College, George Wythe University and others.

The trend is for the Church to dispose of its schools. It happened with Weber Stake Academy (now Weber State University, in Ogden, Utah), and that was only the last of all of the stake academies to be closed or sold to the state (for $1 in the case of Weber).

Lehi

[Saints Alive]

Having read your posts elsewhere I am guessing you favor private LDS schools over Church owned ones. However I much prefer the church tuition of $2280 vs SVU's $9150. Couldn't more church owned schools make college level education a reality for many more people?

[LeSellers]

Having read your posts elsewhere I am guessing you favor private LDS schools over Church owned ones. However I much prefer the church tuition of $2280 vs SVU's $9150. Couldn't more church owned schools make college level education a reality for many more people?

Where would the value of that be?

There are an awfully lot of people who are eminently successful without the rag conferred by any university. I suggest people not "go to school". They ought to "go to life", instead. Supply and Demand cannot be repealed. A college/university education has essentially lost its value since too many people have one, and the quality of the education itself is falling dramatically as all universities clamor for students who ought not be in attendance at all.

Most graduates have more debt than they can pay off. It makes no sense at all for a person to get the required master's degree in social work for a job that pays only $28,000/year. The degree will never be paid off, and he can't even declare bankruptcy.

And, no, since, by definition, a Church-owned school is "privately" owned, I have no preference for either.

Lehi