LeSellers Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Guys, resurrected beings aren't carnivores, as far as I know... or at least the animals aren't =P. .... I could be very wrong though But I'm not sure.Jesus ate fish after the Resurrection.Lehi
Garden Girl Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 This is obvious that all livung things have spirits.They can hear us, feel us. It's a well known fact that plants grow better when you talk to them or sing. I use that technique at home with my cactus and it works!This is true!! Though I've been physically unable to continue my garden in the same way as I did several years ago, it still is beautiful... in its heyday when things were at their best, I used to stand in the middle of my yard and hold my arms out and talk to "everyone" and explain what I'd be doing, particulalry when pruning or cutting. Other times I'd walk through, reaching out and caressing the plants/blooms, talking softly and thanking them for their beauty, and things grew and bloomed even more.Mythbusters actually proved this isn't true. Plants grow better when you talk or sing to them because you're breathing CO2 on them, and the more CO2 plants get, the faster and better they grow. Not because they can hear you.Sorry, my personal experience leads me to believe otherwise... particularly since I was rarely close enough to be breathing high levels of CO2 on the plants. Also, the experiments of Clive Barker(?) (can't remember last name) where he hooked plants up to an EKG machine and did various tests support my position... when he would talk softly the "needle" would move slowly and steadily... but when he showed anger or used threatening words the needle would go crazy, back and forth... sometimes he'd use more than one machine in differing parts of the lab, and all would react the same way... fascinating...So, I used this as I'd work and the results were an incredibly beautiful English style "cottage" garden in an area close to the beach and the salt sea air.GG
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 We all know that in LDS doctrine all living things were created spiritually before they were created physically, and that all living things have spirits and will be resurrected. Does this only include human beings and animals, or does it literally mean all living things and include plants as well? Is there an official LDS position on this?Only man has a soul.
Freedom Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Only man has a soul.The LDS doctrine is that the soul is the joining of the spirit and the body. Since animals have spirits, they also have a soul. D&C 77 is commonly interpreted to say that animals will be in the celestial kingdom and Joseph Smith taught that animals would be resurrected. Consequently, I am not clear on what perspective you are taking from this comment.
Calm Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) All things were created spiritually before they were created temporally. It therefore seems to me that if something does not have an individual spirit, at least it shares in a spirit with other things.http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/77.1-4?lang=engThe first part of the header states "beasts have spirits", will be resurrected and live on an immortal sphere (sorry, can't get my iPad to copy more than a word off of LDS.org pages for some reason).Add-on: I see that Freedom has already pointed this out. Edited December 6, 2011 by calmoriah
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 The LDS doctrine is that the soul is the joining of the spirit and the body. Since animals have spirits, they also have a soul. D&C 77 is commonly interpreted to say that animals will be in the celestial kingdom and Joseph Smith taught that animals would be resurrected. Consequently, I am not clear on what perspective you are taking from this comment.But man became a "living soul" a soul can be lost...or maybe better stated chose. Animals cannot, they are driven only by instinct.
Calm Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 But man became a "living soul" a soul can be lost...or maybe better stated chose. Animals cannot, they are driven only by instinct.Cfr that having agency is an attribute of all souls. ------In case someone hasn't mentioned it, D&C 29:24-5 talks about not one mote of God's creation being "lost" in terms of the resurrection.http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/29.24.24-25?lang=eng#23
Calm Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) In at least one of the creation accounts, it talks of God watching his creations prior to man until they obeyed, IIRC. Can something without agency demonstrate obedience (not a rhetorical question)?Is it not possible that due to the fallen nature of the world, that nonhuman spirits have less control over their physical natures, allowing for instinct to be the primary determiner of external behaviour while still allowing for their spirit to act with a greater level of choice.....perhaps as happens with infants' spirits where fully functioning, independent and accountable spirits are placed within very limited physical vessels where their physical nature overpowers the spirit to the level that we don't believe the "soul" or combination of spirit and physical is accountable until the body catches up to some degree to the spirit (and in some cases due to the limitations of the physical nature this never happens in mortality).Since we have examples of humans with "living souls" who appear to us to be operating solely on instinct, is there any reason why this could not be happening on a larger scale? Edited December 6, 2011 by calmoriah
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Cfr that having agency is an attribute of all souls. ------In case someone hasn't mentioned it, D&C 29:24-5 talks about not one mote of God's creation being "lost" in terms of the resurrection.http://lds.org/scrip...-25?lang=eng#23I don't have a CFR as to the soul of an animal, I do know that man has one...mine often seeks to escape my grasp. I don't think that resurrection of an animal means it has a soul...could be wrong; usually am.
KevinG Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Some living things have more soul than others:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B26ORjxQdNA 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Some living things have more soul than others:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B26ORjxQdNAYou're dating yourself. Did you see him at the Rock and Role reunion that was on recently...HBO.?
KevinG Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 You're dating yourself. Did you see him at the Rock and Role reunion that was on recently...HBO.? Its not as bad as it seems. I was introduced to Sam and Dave through Jake and Elwood Blues. I did not see that show- but I will be looking for a re-run now!OT- I think the definition of soul may be the hang up on this discussion. I know living things have spirits and that those "lesser" spirits having fulfilled the measure of their creation receive entrance into the celestial kingdom. IOW - All Dogs go to Heaven. (I will resist derailing here with another video!)
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Its not as bad as it seems. I was introduced to Sam and Dave through Jake and Elwood Blues. I did not see that show- but I will be looking for a re-run now!OT- I think the definition of soul may be the hang up on this discussion. I know living things have spirits and that those "lesser" spirits having fulfilled the measure of their creation receive entrance into the celestial kingdom. IOW - All Dogs go to Heaven. (I will resist derailing here with another video!)Ah yes the Blues Brothers…also featured Miss Aretha Franklin…the queen of soul.
Freedom Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Pa Pa,Although the scriptures are perhaps ambiguous on the matter, I believe that all creation is covered by the atonement, not just humans. Joseph Smith did teach that they are covered by the atonement and did not qualify that to mean only victory over death. They have to be obedient to the level of their creation. I don't think we have the answer either way but I tend to believe that they are under a similar command that we are. Clearly they do not require ordinances but I believe they are more than pre-programmed organic machines.
BCSpace Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 It would be hard to share the Celestial Kingdom with leeches. I vote againt leeches.No blood in the CK for them anyway.....
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