Internet Anti-Mormonism

[Sky]

Why do some people have to be down-right mean and nasty on the internet when it comes to the LDS faith? Why is our faith the target of so much satire? Why is this generally accepted? Nearly every LDS related article is followed by anonymous reader comments that reflect a prejudice and even hatred towards Mormonism. I’ve read all sorts of awful things. And yet we Mormons are the ones that get accused of being intolerant. I’ve seen it time and time again. It seems to be especially prevalent right now because of Mitt Romney’s candidacy. The Salt Lake Tribune is a prime example. Genuine disagreements are one thing, but when does it cross the line into bigotry? What should our responses be towards this kind of thing? Is it even worth it to try and give a response? Do you think the Mormon.org profiles have hurt or helped with this? Do outsiders really better understand us and our faith? Or has it stayed about the same?

Thoughts?

[LeSellers]

13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

21If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.... If they persecuted Me they will persecute you... for they do not know the One who sent Me.

Enjoy,

Lehi

[Lost in Ohio]

Anonymity on the internet allows those predisposed to do so to remove their veneer of civil discourse and tolerance without any fear of being identified or held accountable. It kind reminds me of the old fantasy 'if you were invisible, what would you do?'. The internet allows invisibility, so if you want to allow your most base and coarse thoughts, feelings, and so forth to be expressed without any fear of those around you knowing you feel that way, then you can. I also think that if you are the type to feed emotionally off the reactions your comments foster then it can be kind of addictive as well. You get emotional energy from enjoying the reaction of those you target, as well as from those who are cheeering you on. It's win-win for the type of personality that enjoys that type of thing.

[Scott Lloyd]

The Salt Lake Tribune is a prime example.

The Tribune was started in 1870 by the Godbeites, a group of apostates bent on opposition to Brigham Young. Though it is far more respectable today than in the early days, it is historically and traditionally the daily of choice in Salt Lake City for those who resent the influence of Mormonism in Utah. And the fact that the paper exercises minimal-to-no-moderation of on-line "reader comments" means that those comments are bound to reflect anti-Mormonism in all of its unalloyed ugliness.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Scott Lloyd

[Grundelwalken]

I have always been baffled by the "anti-Mormon" bent of many in the world.

What do we teach that is so horrible? Is it that we ask our members to live in peace with their families. Or maybe that we want our children to be honest and true to the principles of righteousness. I suppose some could take umbrage at our desire to help others with our money and time. And I'm sure it galls others that we work so hard to follow the teachings of Christ when it comes to other people and their own beliefs. I know that we are not perfect and we are not "true" Christians in many eyes but our 'fruits' seem to be of enough good quality to engender SOME respect.

Frankly, I wonder why more don't wish to be like us because we are trying so hard to make the world a better place.

Now, let the "antis" attack because I'm such a Mo-Mo apologist. It's OK, we surely expect it but I really don't understand it. MW

[orion88]

I have always been baffled by the "anti-Mormon" bent of many in the world.

What do we teach that is so horrible?

If some people are considered ant-Mormon because they don't agree with Mr.

Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God,

then are Mormons considered anti-Christian because they don't agree with

the teaching that Heavenly Father was always God?

[KevinG]

As much bad press as our critics give us I see other religions receiving in kind from their own "antis".

The Catholics in particular have to deal with a lot of nasty barbs.

In both cases the majority of true anti sentiment comes from those who at one time accepted but now reject the religion or those who lerned second hand garbage about the religion.

(and no I do not mistake critics as anti- they are a whole 'nuther category).

[KevinG]

If some people are considered ant-Mormon because they don't agree with Mr.

Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God,

then are Mormons considered anti-Christian because they don't agree with

the teaching that Heavenly Father was always God?

Go find me the person who categorizes someone as anti-Mormon soley because they take issue with the King Follett sermon or Joseph's couplet. When you provide evidence of this I'll answer your question.

Oh heck - I'll give it to you anyway.

No.

[Grundelwalken]

If some people are considered ant-Mormon because they don't agree with Mr.

Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God,

then are Mormons considered anti-Christian because they don't agree with

the teaching that Heavenly Father was always God?

I suppose if people want to selectively choose "doctrines" that they consider bad, we really can help that. What I am suggesting is that by looking at the FRUITS of our religion, one can observe how the common LDS lives and what the true intents of their hearts are. Are those things really something one should fight against? MW

[KevinG]

Need2Balive,

Dysfunctional families where what is being taught is not being demonstrated (love at home, et al...) is one common thread among those who I have noticed soured on the Church and its teachings.

I have known very few people to abandon their beliefs because they found some difficult facts or controversies. While this can be a catylist or final straw, most I know that turn truly anti- have deeper issues that are not necessarily their sins or guilt.

Sadly we sometimes create our own anti-s by not living up to our covenants as parents and brothers and sisters.

[orion88]

What I am suggesting is that by looking at the FRUITS of our religion, one can observe how the common LDS lives and what the true intents of their hearts are. Are those things really something one should fight against? MW

I wonder if Joseph Smith considered this when he taught all churches were corrupt.

By the way, all religions can boast of positive FRUITS. This does not mean they

are of God.

[KevinG]

Joseph taught all churches were corrupt? Really. I learn something new every day.

JS History:

5: ...great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, ^a“Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.

6 For, notwithstanding the great ^alove which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more ^bpretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.

8: ...I felt some desire to be united with them; but so great were the confusion and ^astrife among the different denominations, that it was impossible for a person young as I was, and so unacquainted with men and things, to come to any certain conclusion who was ^bright and who was wrong.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all ^awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those ^bprofessors were all ^ccorrupt; that: “they ^ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ^ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the ^fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the ^gpower thereof.”

[rodheadlee]

Go read the comments on the ESPN blogs after a game for either BYU or Utah. It's disgusting.

[california boy]

I know the last thing this board needs is another thread on gay marriage, so I won't really respond to any arguments concerning gay marriage. And I hope no one will post about gay marriage. Let's keep the topic of this thread in our discussions, I hope everyone understands.

When the church decided to get involved political in prop 8 to fight against gay marriage, they maybe unintentionally, drew a line in the sand against all of those people who believe gays should have the right to marry. To those that support gay marriage, the church was telling them that the church didn't think gay people deserved the right to be married. And while the church considered gay marriage to be a moral issue. what the church could not explain is what that moral issue was. Who was it making more moral by not allowing gay people to marry? (I am not going to get into this issue as well, but if you want to better understand this issue, you can read my comments on the recently locked thread about gay civil rights). From those that support gay marriage, it APPEARED that the Mormon church just didn't like gay people. If there isn't a rational moral issue that is defendable, those that support gay marriage look at the churches actions as just being bigoted. I AM NOT SAYING THAT IS HOW I FEEL, I AM ONLY TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY THE CHURCH HAS GOTTEN THE LABEL AS BEING BIGOTED. So please don't blame this on me.

Prop 8 has become a defining moment for both sides of the issue. i would venture to say that is all a lot of people internationally about the church is their efforts to take away marriage rights from gay couples. Prop 8 has taken a life of its own. Besides the still constant reference to it on the internet, there is a movie about it, a play about it web sites about it and organizations that have sprung up to fight for gay marriage because of it. The churches name has now been firmly welded to a fight for what they feel are civil rights for those who support the rights for gay marriage throughout the world.

Getting politically involved in taking away the right for gay people to marry has now linked the church with the two other most often talked about views of the church, polygamy and denying blacks the priesthood. Many people felt the church was being bigoted about black people. This just reinforced that image. When half of the population of this country that supports gay marriage sees the name of the church or a church member running for office, is all they see is a church that has bigoted teachings. It may be unfair, but that is how it has happened. I am sure there are other factors that make the church a target, but I have to say, among those people that I talk to, when I mention the Mormon church, the first thing that comes out of their mouth often is the word bigot.

Once again, these are not my views. They may be unfair. It might not be justified. Church members might feel like victims. But that is at least part of the reality. The Catholic receive a lot of the same bigot remarks. And it is no coincidence that they were the two churches that made the biggest push against gay marriage.

[KevinG]

The LDS Church got labelled a long time before Prop 8.

Thats just the latest in a long string of things haters hate over. Even then, outside of the California/Intermountain West gay community and a small snarky group of NY Hollywood types it doesn't get much traction.

We even get critics who believe we're not anti-abortion enough. Out here in the Bible Belt if you asked about Prop 8 supporters you are as likely to get a response that they are in the athletics wear aisle as you would anyone who remembers the California ballot issue.

Telling me that among your aquantences the word bigot is associated with the LDS church says as much about your circle of friends as it does the LDS Church and its adherants. Any time someone takes a stand on anything someone else will be there to knock them off. It is human nature.

[Nominee]

People don't understand the complexity of our religion, IMO. We're not ALL bad people... they should take the time to get to know us before they make up their minds!!!!

It is the simplicity of the full gospel of Jesus Christ that I think makes it so beautiful.

[Nominee]

If some people are considered ant-Mormon because they don't agree with Mr.

Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God,

then are Mormons considered anti-Christian because they don't agree with

the teaching that Heavenly Father was always God?

Anti-Mormon is not to disagree it is to agressively and hatefully, with prejudice, ignorance, and intolerance, attack the Mormon beliefs without being willing to recognize when the reason for attack is unfounded or just outright false.

[altersteve]

I wonder if Joseph Smith considered this when he taught all churches were corrupt.

CFR that Joseph Smith "taught all churches were corrupt."

By the way, all religions can boast of positive FRUITS. This does not mean they

are of God.

No, but their positive fruits are of God. Anything else that is "virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy" is of God.

[selek1]

The LDS Church got labelled a long time before Prop 8.

Indeed. It's also worthy to note that CB's faithful hobby-horse is seldom found as justification among the hateful epithets and sneers under discussion.

His ideological brethren tend to prefer their terrorism be a bit more overt- vandalism, fire-bombs, harassing phone calls, interrupted Church services, assaults on senior citizens and "anthrax" letters sent to LDS temples.

Calling Mormons names on the web is just a bit too tame for most of his fellow travellers.

Even then, outside of the California/Intermountain West gay community and a small snarky group of NY Hollywood types it doesn't get much traction.

QFT. If anything, those who hate us most vehemently are just as apt to hate California Boy's compatriots with an even more feiry zeal.

Out here in the Bible Belt if you asked about Prop 8 supporters you are as likely to get a response that they are in the athletics wear aisle as you would anyone who remembers the California ballot issue.

[selek1]

CFR that Joseph Smith "taught all churches were corrupt."

Daddy G already eviscerated this nonsense with facts.

I suggest you ignore the enfant terrible. He's just hitting us for reactions.

Nothing you or I can say will so much as dent the armor of his smug intransigence.

Or in other words, "Don't feed the troll."

Not that I don't understand the temptation- but I've learned that when you argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Edited December 2, 2011 by selek1

[omni]

Obviously with anonymous posting you're bound to get ignorant and hateful comments no matter the subject. However I've noticed a distinct difference with regards to articles about the church or it's members as opposed to other subjects that could be viewed as controversial such as race, religion, illegal immigration, or sexual orientation. With these other populations you will almost always see a significant number of people defending them even though they are not a part of that population, however with the church you see very few neutral "bystanders" who will defend us. And when they do it's often with a back handed comment such as, "sure they believe in some crazy stuff, but most the Mormons I know are nice people".

As mentioned earlier by California boy, part of this could be lasting effects from Prop 8 as many mention Prop 8 in their posts...even when it has absolutely nothing to do with the article. Of course this could just be a way for them to justify their hatred.

[Senator]

Joseph taught all churches were corrupt? Really. I learn something new every day.

Well, I can't be inferred from Joseph's report that any or all churches were right, can it?

Edited December 2, 2011 by Senator

[ERayR]

If some people are considered ant-Mormon because they don't agree with Mr.

Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God,

then are Mormons considered anti-Christian because they don't agree with

the teaching that Heavenly Father was always God?

I do not know of anybody who considers someone an anti-mormon for disagreeing with any teaching of Joseph Smith or any other church leader. I am sure you have been told that before so that means you either have a problem with comprehension or you deliberatly make things up. Do you enjoy constructing straw men?

[ERayR]

I wonder if Joseph Smith considered this when he taught all churches were corrupt.

By the way, all religions can boast of positive FRUITS. This does not mean they

are of God.

There you go again. I do believe you are deliberatly misrepresenting.

[ERayR]

Well, I can't be inferred from Joseph's report that any or all churches were right, can it?

Use your dictionary. There is a difference between creed and church. There really is.