Internet Anti-Mormonism

[Sky]

Perception. You are hypersensitive to criticism directed towards mormons, because you are Mormon.

So the problem is with me for being too hypersensitive?

[Sky]

Let's all try not to turn this into another thread about gay marriage, shall we? What I have described has been happening long before Prop 8. There's certainly other things we could talk about.

[saemo]

Not long ago the SL Trib posted something on the front page of their website that repeat offenses of their rules would cause the poster to be banned. They don't screen their comments before they are posted but they do have a red flag system. I have flagged one comment before as offensive...it was very sexually explicit. It was deleted. But since then I don't read the reader comments any more.

So, red flag the offensive comments.

[Sky]

Not long ago the SL Trib posted something on the front page of their website that repeat offenses of their rules would cause the poster to be banned. They don't screen their comments before they are posted but they do have a red flag system. I have flagged one comment before as offensive...it was very sexually explicit. It was deleted. But since then I don't read the reader comments any more.

So, red flag the offensive comments.

To red flag all the insulting comments towards Mormons and Mormonism on the SL Trib would be a full-time job. If you ask me, they need to do a better job of enforcing their own rules. Surely they must be aware that it is happening. But they haven't really done much of anything about it. It makes me wonder if they really care. But like you, I will just have to not read the comments anymore.

[saemo]

To red flag all the insulting comments towards Mormons and Mormonism on the SL Trib would be a full-time job. If you ask me, they need to do a better job of enforcing their own rules. Surely they must be aware that it is happening. But they haven't really done much of anything about it. It makes me wonder if they really care. But like you, I will just have to not read the comments anymore.

Anti-religious in general, aimed mainly at Mormonism, also racial bigotry against immigrants that also has shades of anti-religion (brown AND Catholic). The comment I flagged was on a story about a Catholic in Utah, and had nothing to do with the story but was very sexually explicit about how an adult would abuse a child. I don't have a problem with people being angry over sexual abuse, but explicit descriptions aimed at a person who has had nothing to do with them are not necessary.

I don't find there is any reason to read the comments, or to read any newspaper at all. Everything has become more explicit in its violence and reeks of a salacious nature. I have no interest.

Edited December 4, 2011 by saemo

[why me]

An assertion contradicted by history, fact, reason, logic, and all the other trappings of that inconvenient thing called "reality".

But a nice try, nonetheless. You've already been dinged once for politics, shall we make it two?

Call For References, please.

When one takes the trouble to actually compare them, Mormon culture is little different than anywhere else in small town America- though certain aspects of our religious practice and beliefs are slightly different

Agreed. It is the scale of that criticism and negative attention which is unusual/unprecedented.

We thank you for your opinion. Can you clothe those bare bones with fact?

In reality, how any group of people is treated varies significantly by region, location, and political/religious environment.

The topic at hand is the treatment of Mormons on the internet- which (as has been admitted by virtually all comers to the topic) is decidedly biased and negative.

Is that an invitation or a proposition?

I can never tell with these things....

One of the problems that the early mormons faced were in the area of politics. The locals were fearful that the mormons would become too politically dominant in the area. The locals were afraid of this political domination by mormons. Thus, aspects of persecution developed until the mormons were driven out. The perceived weird beliefs of the mormons were another factor. But in general it was not until that the mormons would arrive enmass into an area that the political domination by a 'weird' group of people began to concern the locals.

[Jaybear]

So the problem is with me for being too hypersensitive?

The problem? You miss the point. I don't agree that there is a problem. What you see as a "problem", I see as a natural, predictable byproduct of social interaction.

[Sky]

The problem? You miss the point. I don't agree that there is a problem. What you see as a "problem", I see as a natural, predictable byproduct of social interaction.

Also, as somebody who’s a critic of Mormonism yourself, I can understand why you don’t see a problem.

[Pahoran]

If some people are considered ant-Mormon because they don't agree with Mr. Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God, then are Mormons considered anti-Christian because they don't agree with the teaching that Heavenly Father was always God?

1) I don't know of anyone who is "considered ant-Mormon" or even anti-Mormon "because they don't agree with Mr. Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God." People are considered anti-Mormon because they are opposed to (anti) the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon).

2) And it is logically incoherent for "Mormons" to be described as "anti-Christian." Can ducks be "anti-bird?" Can Americans be "anti-human?" The fact is that the set of all "Mormons" is a subset of the set of all Christians. This is an uncontroversial fact that is not rationally disputed by any informed person anywhere.

I just thought you should know.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Sky]

Let's switch your comment around just a little bit and then see how you feel about it.

Perception. You are hypersensitive to criticism directed towards mormons gays, because you are Mormon gay.

I choose gays in this example because you frequently participate in those discussions and are far more sympathetic towards them as a group.

I doubt that you’d be so quick to dismiss criticism of gays or homosexuality as a matter of perception. After all, other groups get mocked too, right? So what’s the big deal?

But I started this thread not to focus on other groups or even on mere disagreements with Mormonism, but when criticism crosses the boundary into the mean-spirited and ignorant attacks that I so often see.

[CQUIRK]

If some people are considered ant-Mormon because they don't agree with Mr. Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God, then are Mormons considered anti-Christian because they don't agree with the teaching that Heavenly Father was always God?

No, rather its the ignoramus bigots that preach false doctrine and bear false witness against Latter Day Saints that are anti-Christian in their actions, and perhaps their thoughts as well.

And that isn't a official doctrine or belief, so can you please do your research next time before you speak here with the intelligence of a fourth-grader on the subject, please?

[CQUIRK]

I wonder if Joseph Smith considered this when he taught all churches were corrupt.

I wonder if John the Revelator considered that same thing when he wrote those messages to the Seven Churches of Asia.

By the way, all religions can boast of positive FRUITS. This does not mean they are of God

Yes, even other churches that don't have the full gospel like we do can indeed boast of positive fruit and good works, though our own personal actions, character, and especially our distinctive beliefs have us on a much better standing then them.

However, the "counter-cult" ministries and zealous anti-Mormon groups are not only not of God, but are of that whom rebelled against God early on.

[selek1]

One of the problems that the early mormons faced were in the area of politics. The locals were fearful that the mormons would become too politically dominant in the area. The locals were afraid of this political domination by mormons. Thus, aspects of persecution developed until the mormons were driven out.

You are quite correct. It is indisputably historical face that this was one of the problems- but it was never the primary justification nor demonstrably the driving force behind the persecutions and progroms suffered by the early Mormon populations.

It also does nothing whatever to redeem Lachrymolotov's assertion that "The Mormons are largely ignored until their organization finds itself involved in politics".

The perceived weird beliefs of the mormons were another factor.

In my opinion- and there is ample evidence to support this- the "wierd beliefs" of the Mormons were almost invariably the first seeds of hatred planted.

To use a more contemporary analogy, the "wierd" Mormon beliefs were the "gateway drug" that led to the greater highs (and lows) of mobocracy, looting, pillage, rape, and murder,

Then and now, Mormons were considered "sheep-stealers" by the more "traditional" faiths, and their ministers and pastors- those who stood to lose financially as their flocks fell away to the new-comers" were not above using inflammatory rhetoric, caricatures of Mormon beliefs, and out-right deception to stir up the locals against the Latter-day Saints (whether they presented a sizable political force or not).

In every instance where mobs and vandals raged against the Mormon faithful, in every instance where Momon men, women and children were raped, beaten, murdered, or driven into the snow, you will find idolatrous priests at their head, flogging the mob with salcious and provocative tales of Mormon perversion and debauchery.

And that includes the idolatrous, indulgent High-priests of Narcissus today.

Edited December 5, 2011 by selek1

[Pandorian]

If some people are considered ant-Mormon because they don't agree with Mr.

Smith's teaching that Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God,

then are Mormons considered anti-Christian because they don't agree with

the teaching that Heavenly Father was always God?

Well, there is having a difference of opinion which is okay. Some people don't believe in Joseph Smith, or the Gospel which is fine. However, when they start using names and call the Church the most EVIL thing that ever existed, then that is probably going too far.

[Senator]

Well, there is having a difference of opinion which is okay. Some people don't believe in Joseph Smith, or the Gospel which is fine. However, when they start using names and call the Church the most EVIL thing that ever existed, then that is probably going too far.

Kind of like post #61 above?

[Jaybear]

I doubt that you’d be so quick to dismiss criticism of gays or homosexuality as a matter of perception. After all, other groups get mocked too, right? So what’s the big deal?

Good point for two reasons.

First, I suspect that a gay person, is more likely to notice criticism/attacks directed towards gay individuals.

At the same time, that you would compare criticism of LDS to criticism directed at gays, shows your complete lack of perspective.

Bullying has led many gay teens to take their lives. Are LDS teens bullied to that extent for being LDS?

People continue to commit acts of violence against gays. When was the last time someone was killed or beaten in the US, just for being mormon?

There are 7 countries in the world where homosexuality is punishable by death.

In California the voters, with the LDS Church support passed a constitutional amendment taking away the right of gay couples to marry. When was the last time anyone even introduced legislation specifically directed at taking way rights of mormons ... 1880?

BTW, one of the reasons you will see alot of "mean spirited" and ignorant attacks on the trib message board, is because you have over zealous defenders of the faith who say things akin to Post 61 egging them on.

[thesometimesaint]

Jaybear:

Sending mysterious white powders to LDS Temples, and firebombing LDS buildings aren't exactly what I'd call act of kindness, even if no one was actually killed.

[Jaybear]

Jaybear:

Sending mysterious white powders to LDS Temples, and firebombing LDS buildings aren't exactly what I'd call act of kindness, even if no one was actually killed.

Temples ... Buildings ... Plural? Is there some war going on, or are you talking about two isolated incidents that happened years ago where we have no idea who the perpetrator was or what motivated them?

If the latter, thank you for proving my point.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Jaybear

[thesometimesaint]

Jaybear:

Don't be obtuse. Sending even supposed Anthrax through the mail is a Terrorist act and Federal Crime. BTW the authorities are still looking for the idiot that sent Anthrax through the mail in Florida. You know as well as anyone that all LDS Temples are buildings, but not all LDS buildings are Temples.

[Jaybear]

Jaybear:

Don't be obtuse. Sending even supposed Anthrax through the mail is a Terrorist act and Federal Crime. BTW the authorities are still looking for the idiot that sent Anthrax through the mail in Florida. You know as well as anyone that all LDS Temples are buildings, but not all LDS buildings are Temples.

So this powder, are we talking about an isolated incident that happened years ago, or does this happen all the time?

Likewise with this "firebombing", isolated incident that happened years ago, or ongoing problem?

In your first post you said "temples" and "buildings" which clearly suggested that you think its an ongoing problem.

[thesometimesaint]

Jaybear:

Until the perp(s) pays to the maximum extent of the law then it IS an ongoing problem.

When someone is hitting you in the nose, a momentary stop is no reason to say it was just in the long ago past.

[Sky]

Good point for two reasons.

First, I suspect that a gay person, is more likely to notice criticism/attacks directed towards gay individuals.

At the same time, that you would compare criticism of LDS to criticism directed at gays, shows your complete lack of perspective.

Bullying has led many gay teens to take their lives. Are LDS teens bullied to that extent for being LDS?

People continue to commit acts of violence against gays. When was the last time someone was killed or beaten in the US, just for being mormon?

There are 7 countries in the world where homosexuality is punishable by death.

In California the voters, with the LDS Church support passed a constitutional amendment taking away the right of gay couples to marry. When was the last time anyone even introduced legislation specifically directed at taking way rights of mormons ... 1880?

BTW, one of the reasons you will see alot of "mean spirited" and ignorant attacks on the trib message board, is because you have over zealous defenders of the faith who say things akin to Post 61 egging them on.

There is plenty of “egging on” coming from the Mormon-critics, as well. It goes both ways.

But regardless, bullying is wrong regardless if it’s directed towards gays or Mormons or whoever else. I hope we can agree on that, because I can’t seem to agree with you on much else. But I really don’t want this to turn into a gays vs. Mormons thread, so I will go no further.

The Church’s position on same-sex marriage is certainly something that many people don’t like. But it’s only a piece of the picture. It’s not the whole picture.

[Jaybear]

There is plenty of “egging on” coming from the Mormon-critics, as well. It goes both ways.

Yup. But that is just how some people like to play.

But regardless, bullying is wrong regardless if it’s directed towards gays or Mormons or whoever else. I hope we can agree on that, because I can’t seem to agree with you on much else. But I really don’t want this to turn into a gays vs. Mormons thread, so I will go no further.

We agree that bullying is wrong. We disagree on what constitutes bullying, or whether bullying directed towards LDS is a pervasive problem.

The Church’s position on same-sex marriage is certainly something that many people don’t like. But it’s only a piece of the picture. It’s not the whole picture.

Yes, but it strikes me that the most incendiary comments directed towards Mormons and your church come from former Mormons, not gay right advocates.

[Sky]

Yes, but it strikes me that the most incendiary comments directed towards Mormons and your church come from former Mormons, not gay right advocates.

Based on my observation, many former Mormons are gay rights advocates. But I do agree with you that the most incendiary comments directed towards Mormons and the LDS Church come from former Mormons. See, we agree again! Who would have thought?

[altersteve]

Based on my observation, many former Mormons are gay rights advocates. But I do agree with you that the most incendiary comments directed towards Mormons and the LDS Church come from former Mormons. See, we agree again! Who would have thought?

Most current Mormons (including myself) are probably gay rights advocates too.