Senator Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Just had a lesson on the Millenium given according to a very literalistic reading of scripture.I sat there during much of the presentation with one word recurring in my mind: Really?Is it ok to accept a non-literal belief in Millenial descriptions, like many are wont to do with "historical" tales in the scriptures?I'm trying to deal with the turmoil that took place in my mind during that lesson. 1
Franktalk Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 What issues are you referring to? I have studied the Millennium and may be of some help.
cinepro Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 For reference, here's the lesson:The MilleniumI especially like this note in the lesson:For teachers: The subject of the Millennium sometimes leads people to speculate about ideas that are not found in the scriptures or the teachings of latter-day prophets. As you guide this lesson, be careful to avoid such speculation.So the question would be whether you were having problems with stuff from the manual, or whether "spurious" elements were introduced.
Franktalk Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I gave the lesson in the High Priest group on the Millennium. I was very careful not to add my own beliefs on top of scripture. I asked questions mostly and let everyone talk most of the time. This was a very different lesson than the one I did on the second coming of Christ. In that lesson I covered a lot of the Old Testament prophecies and warned everyone that as the Jews got it it wrong we have to be real careful not to follow suite.
Nominee Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I taught the lesson in RS today. I have to admit that preparation with determination to avoid speculation took me down one of the deepest rabbit holes I have been in for some time. I found a blog along the way with a post on this lesson. You may enjoy the read.http://feastuponthewordblog.org/2011/11/06/rsmp-lesson-45-the-millennium-gospel-principles-manual/
Stargazer Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I taught the lesson in RS today. I have to admit that preparation with determination to avoid speculation took me down one of the deepest rabbit holes I have been in for some time. I found a blog along the way with a post on this lesson. You may enjoy the read.http://feastuponthew...nciples-manual/I don't klnow if this lesson was taught in our priesthood meeting today, because I was playing hookey. I hesitate to imagine what might have been made of this subject, however.Are we all vegetarians in the Millenium? This is one thing I've been given to understand. That sucks. How about a nice barbecued carrot? Yumm! Gah.
Nominee Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I know, right?! haha! It could happen. It could not happen. If it does happen, don't worry, we'll be cool with it by then. . To say it will happen is definitely speculation.This is at the end of the 2nd paragraph in the link I posted above, it refers to speculations that have needed "purging" from the GP manual:"(6) An entire subsection on “Changes in the Animal Kingdom” has been removed, including the following common but wildly speculative interpretation of Isaiah: “Animals that now eat flesh will eat grass and grain.” "Yes, somehow, this scripture evolved into 'We will all be vegetarians in the millinnium.'Again, possible but highly speculative and not doctrine. *she wipes her brow and says, phew.*
Anijen Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) I don't klnow if this lesson was taught in our priesthood meeting today, because I was playing hookey. I hesitate to imagine what might have been made of this subject, however.Are we all vegetarians in the Millenium? This is one thing I've been given to understand. That sucks. How about a nice barbecued carrot? Yumm! Gah.Well look at it this way, design a potato that tastes like a steak! Edited November 21, 2011 by Anijen
KevinG Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Are we all vegetarians in the Millenium? This is one thing I've been given to understand. That sucks. How about a nice barbecued carrot? Yumm! Gah.Perhaps I will be in a position to hire an Indian cook. That should help.
The Nehor Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I don't klnow if this lesson was taught in our priesthood meeting today, because I was playing hookey. I hesitate to imagine what might have been made of this subject, however.Are we all vegetarians in the Millenium? This is one thing I've been given to understand. That sucks. How about a nice barbecued carrot? Yumm! Gah.My Elder's Quorum solved this problem in class. I pointed out that the only solution was for me to create a tree that grows steak. The Brethren were unanimous in their support for my project.
zerinus Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Just had a lesson on the Millenium given according to a very literalistic reading of scripture.I sat there during much of the presentation with one word recurring in my mind: Really?Is it ok to accept a non-literal belief in Millenial descriptions, like many are wont to do with "historical" tales in the scriptures?I'm trying to deal with the turmoil that took place in my mind during that lesson.Mormon belief in the Millennium is a literalistic one--i.e. a literal 1,000 years of Christ's reign on earth.
thesometimesaint Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Stargazer:I look forward to porkchop trees. 1
Sky Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Just had a lesson on the Millenium given according to a very literalistic reading of scripture.I sat there during much of the presentation with one word recurring in my mind: Really?Is it ok to accept a non-literal belief in Millenial descriptions, like many are wont to do with "historical" tales in the scriptures?I'm trying to deal with the turmoil that took place in my mind during that lesson.I just had this lesson too. And you weren’t the only one who was left scratching their head about a few things. There is a reason why the manual says to stick to the subject matter, and to avoid speculation as much as possible. With the Millennium, it is so easy to speculate. But in reality we just don’t know a lot of things – like if Las Vegas and Starbucks will shut down, and just what living the full Law of Consecration will be like. It is my understanding that everybody who is living at least a Terrestrial law will be around during the Millennium. But don’t let it affect the things that you do know. Just have faith and it will all work out in the end. Edited November 21, 2011 by Sky
Franktalk Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I don't klnow if this lesson was taught in our priesthood meeting today, because I was playing hookey. I hesitate to imagine what might have been made of this subject, however.Are we all vegetarians in the Millenium? This is one thing I've been given to understand. That sucks. How about a nice barbecued carrot? Yumm! Gah.I do think that meat will be served. Before Jesus came to the earth in flesh He did visit Abraham. He was served meat. So I have to believe that any body we will receive will still handle meat as food.When I drive by cattle I get hungry for a steak. It is like catching a tuna, I get out my hot mustard and sample the raw flesh as I fillet the fish.
Franktalk Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Mormon belief in the Millennium is a literalistic one--i.e. a literal 1,000 years of Christ's reign on earth.That is true, a thousand years. A thousand years of days, but what kind of year and what kind of day? The shortened days of the tribulation period? The prophetic 360 day year? I think there are many details that we will find out only when it happens.
Senator Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) For reference, here's the lesson:So the question would be whether you were having problems with stuff from the manual, or whether "spurious" elements were introduced. SoI would have to say it is a bit of both. Unfortunately the instructor ignored the "note to instructors" and culled together a bullet point list of 18 items that appears to have been pulled directly from McConkie's Mormon Doctrine. I just sat there with a strange euphoria that all this stuff was as if it was coming out of a science/fantasy fiction novel. Edited November 21, 2011 by Senator 1
Senator Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 I taught the lesson in RS today. I have to admit that preparation with determination to avoid speculation took me down one of the deepest rabbit holes I have been in for some time. I found a blog along the way with a post on this lesson. You may enjoy the read.http://feastuponthew...nciples-manual/Thanks for the link. I wish our discussion could have been in the investigative manner of this blog poster. It is interesting to see how many elements were removed from this version of the manual, and the question he asks, "what will be removed next time?" of the things that we currently believe and are taught to us.
Senator Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Mormon belief in the Millennium is a literalistic one--i.e. a literal 1,000 years of Christ's reign on earth."Mormon belief" at the opposite end of time is also quite literalistic. Yet we are given leeway to employ literary tools to "interpret" the scrpitural stories of the past in order to extract spiritual teaching and not necessarily for their historical instuction.Can the same be done for the other end of time? Edited November 21, 2011 by Senator
Sky Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 The Millennium is either going to happen or not, right? So I don’t really see where there is a lot of room for some sort of non-literal interpretation. We may not understand all the specifics, but that still doesn’t change the fact that we believe it will happen. In fact, LDS doctrine teaches that one of the main reasons why the Church was established was to help prepare the world for the second coming of Christ. At least this is how I understand it.
Nominee Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) I think it is human to speculate and we are all human. I have some of the most exciting conversations with friends when speculation is involved! BUT in my calling as RS teacher it is my responsibility to teach doctrine and I take that very seriously. I found there was PLENTY to discuss regarding the millinnium even when the focus remained on what scripture does give us. We clearly do not need more details, than the Lord has saw fit to give us already, of this portion of the future in order to prepare for it properly and spiritually. Edited November 21, 2011 by Nominee
Senator Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 But don’t let it affect the things that you do know. Just have faith and it will all work out in the end. Well that's a topic for another discussion, as, at this point I can't claim that I know anything outside of my own subjective experience.
Senator Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 The Millennium is either going to happen or not, right? So I don’t really see where there is a lot of room for some sort of non-literal interpretation. We may not understand all the specifics, but that still doesn’t change the fact that we believe it will happen. In fact, LDS doctrine teaches that one of the main reasons why the Church was established was to help prepare the world for the second coming of Christ. At least this is how I understand it.I'll see your point and raise you, that there is no speculation that the creation of man and earth actually did happen, yet I've seen many LDS who employ non-literalistic tools to make sense out of the mythic nature of scriptural report. Why not so, for the end prophesies?
Verum Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I don't really understand the purpose of discussing it something like the Millennium in detail. The details simply do no help us live better today. To me its simply a distraction from learning and applying valuable principles that we can apply today. Not to mention that it all sounds like science fiction movie anyway....
Senator Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 I don't really understand the purpose of discussing it something like the Millennium in detail. The details simply do no help us live better today. To me its simply a distraction from learning and applying valuable principles that we can apply today. Not to mention that it all sounds like science fiction movie anyway....Well, that would have been a relevant question to ask, after the Manual asked these two questions:- In what ways will life during the Millennium be different from life on the earth now?- How can we prepare now for work in the Millennium?
Sky Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I'll see your point and raise you, that there is no speculation that the creation of man and earth actually did happen, yet I've seen many LDS who employ non-literalistic tools to make sense out of the mythic nature of scriptural report. Why not so, for the end prophesies?Maybe you could go into more detail for us about what you believe about the Millennium. I understand the gist of what you are saying is that you interpret it non-literally. Does this mean you believe that it’s nothing more than a myth? What specifically do you have issues with? How do you interpret the Millennium differently? Help me to understand your point of view a little better.But the problem that I see with having discussions like this at church is that they delve too much into speculation and personal interpretation rather than the actual doctrine.
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