Are Mormons Like Zombies? Yes A Real Story Linked In Mormon Times.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Are Mormons like zombies? I have been around a while, but this one is beyond the pale.

A minister calling others of another faith Zombies…by the way in my “Post Apocalyptic” thread who are taking courses on killing “Zombies”, you might want to revisit this…

Here is a link to the Deseret News story, linked in Mormon Times…

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700195913/Are-Mormons-like-zombies.html

I was not sure if this was for the news forum or if it should be in General Discussion, it seemed to qualify as both.

[Calm]

Totally got it wrong. His analogy was describing pod people/body snatchers, not zombies. Obviously just another anti-zombie guy, swallowing and then spewing back out all sorts of bilge without a concern for the truth.

[Arkholt]

While the analogy does sound a bit silly, and while the view the analogy is describing is complete nonsense, I think the article is useful in showing us how other people perceive us. I say that because in my experience this is exactly how we're perceived by a large number of Christian churches, at least in the South. It's a very "Us vs. Them" concept, and it exists even between different Christian Churches (Baptist vs. Methodist, Catholic vs. Protestant, etc.): "They look like us, but they're not us."

[Rob Bowman]

The Deseret News article gets this story wrong. Actually, Matthew Johnson, the author of the article, is not demeaning Mormons at all. He is demeaning Southern Baptists for supposedly being irrationally fearful of Mormons. The author makes his stance clear when he criticizes the conservative resurgence in the SBC of a couple of decades ago. He is a Baptist who is critical of the conservative evangelical perspective of the SBC, and in particular of its insistence on the importance of sound doctrine--which was exactly the issue driving the conservative resurgence. (An example of the kind of doctrinal issues that led to the resurgence is the virgin birth of Christ.) All of this will be clear to anyone familiar with the SBC who reads Johnson's own article in full rather than just the Deseret News article about Johnson's article.

Having worked for the SBC for two years (2006-2008) and having been involved in SBC churches for many years before that, I can testify that Johnson's representation of Southern Baptists is a caricature.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Totally got it wrong. His analogy was describing pod people/body snatchers, not zombies. Obviously just another anti-zombie guy, swallowing and then spewing back out all sorts of bilge without a concern for the truth.

I must admit I an a anti-Zombie guy...oh the shame!

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

The Deseret News article gets this story wrong. Actually, Matthew Johnson, the author of the article, is not demeaning Mormons at all. He is demeaning Southern Baptists for supposedly being irrationally fearful of Mormons. The author makes his stance clear when he criticizes the conservative resurgence in the SBC of a couple of decades ago. He is a Baptist who is critical of the conservative evangelical perspective of the SBC, and in particular of its insistence on the importance of sound doctrine--which was exactly the issue driving the conservative resurgence. (An example of the kind of doctrinal issues that led to the resurgence is the virgin birth of Christ.) All of this will be clear to anyone familiar with the SBC who reads Johnson's own article in full rather than just the Deseret News article about Johnson's article.

Having worked for the SBC for two years (2006-2008) and having been involved in SBC churches for many years before that, I can testify that Johnson's representation of Southern Baptists is a caricature.

I guess it depends on the prism through which it is viewed...but there are elements of what you suggested in the story; which I am not sure how well it was received by his congregation. Had it been an Apostles of ours associating the word "Zombie" in any fashion to Christians of any denomination it would launch a thousand threads. I will try an experiment on a Christian site and let you know how it goes.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

While the analogy does sound a bit silly, and while the view the analogy is describing is complete nonsense, I think the article is useful in showing us how other people perceive us.

It is a common tactic to use or attach derogatory terms to other groups in order to de-humanize them. This way others feel justified in their attacks.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Nathair/|\]

I must admit I an a anti-Zombie guy...oh the shame!

"I don't hate zombies, I just like killing them."--Zombie Tools.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

"I don't hate zombies, I just like killing them."--Zombie Tools.

I understand. A man has got to do, what a man has got to do.

[Calm]

Discrimination and hatred against zombies is the last acceptable prejudice as evidenced by the recent rash of media promoting zombie bashing, beheading and general dismemberment. Vampires and even werewolves aren't allowed to be called monsters now, but instead have become mainstream sex symbols that teens and even grown women and men drool over; when was the last time you saw a picture of a zombie with his shirt off and the women throwing themselves at him, begging him for just a little bite?.......instead they are throwing sharp and deadly...well undeadly weapons at the poor creature to the applause of the audience.

It's pathetic really.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Discrimination and hatred against zombies is the last acceptable prejudice as evidenced by the recent rash of media promoting zombie bashing, beheading and general dismemberment. Vampires and even werewolves aren't allowed to be called monsters now, but instead have become mainstream sex symbols that teens and even grown women and men drool over; when was the last time you saw a picture of a zombie with his shirt off and the women throwing themselves at him, begging him for just a little bite?.......instead they are throwing sharp and deadly...well undeadly weapons at the poor creature to the applause of the audience.

It's pathetic really.

I feel so ashamed...the only good Zombie is a dead Zombie. Although they walk so slow, I can never figure out how they catch those who can outrun them.

[Cobalt-70]

The Deseret News article gets this story wrong. Actually, Matthew Johnson, the author of the article, is not demeaning Mormons at all. He is demeaning Southern Baptists for supposedly being irrationally fearful of Mormons. The author makes his stance clear when he criticizes the conservative resurgence in the SBC of a couple of decades ago. He is a Baptist who is critical of the conservative evangelical perspective of the SBC, and in particular of its insistence on the importance of sound doctrine--which was exactly the issue driving the conservative resurgence. (An example of the kind of doctrinal issues that led to the resurgence is the virgin birth of Christ.) All of this will be clear to anyone familiar with the SBC who reads Johnson's own article in full rather than just the Deseret News article about Johnson's article.

Geez. Doesn't the Deseret News hire fact checkers any more? Newspapers are truly falling on hard times.

[Pahoran]

The Deseret News article gets this story wrong. Actually, Matthew Johnson, the author of the article, is not demeaning Mormons at all. He is demeaning Southern Baptists for supposedly being irrationally fearful of Mormons. The author makes his stance clear when he criticizes the conservative resurgence in the SBC of a couple of decades ago. He is a Baptist who is critical of the conservative evangelical perspective of the SBC, and in particular of its insistence on the importance of sound doctrine--which was exactly the issue driving the conservative resurgence. (An example of the kind of doctrinal issues that led to the resurgence is the virgin birth of Christ.) All of this will be clear to anyone familiar with the SBC who reads Johnson's own article in full rather than just the Deseret News article about Johnson's article.

Perhaps it might help if you read the Deseret News article itself:

Johnson, it should be noted, is a former Southern Baptist. In a comment associated with the article he says that his point was not to criticize Mormonism, but to point out "the animosity that some Southern Baptists hold toward members of the LDS Church."

IOW, Walker seems to have noticed that.

Having worked for the SBC for two years (2006-2008) and having been involved in SBC churches for many years before that, I can testify that Johnson's representation of Southern Baptists is a caricature.

Well, given the materials published by the SBC under the title The Mormon Puzzle a few years ago, don't Southern Baptists think caricatures of faith positions are good things?

Regards,

Pahoran

[Loran Blood]

The SBC and allied evangelical Protestant denominations have long been prone to precisely this: the cartoonization of LDS doctrine and culture, to the point that any resemblance between evangelical "counter-cult" perceptions of the LDS world and the actual reality all but vanishes into the grinding, masticating maw of the "cult" mentality of evangelical Christian "anti" apologetics.

Walter Martin was the original grand old man of evangelical polemical demagoguery who's primary purpose was the creation of a vast alternate world composed of caricatures of LDS theology and culture, outdone, in later years, probably only by Ed Decker. The SBC's record regarding its presentation and portrayal of LDS teachings has, up to this point, been anything but sterling. Honest criticism is welcome and accepted as the way of the world. The EV counter-cult has been unique, however, in its inability or unwillingness to meet the LDS church on a level playing field in the arena of ideas. It has seen it necessary, indeed, to create an alternate, phantom LDS church to impugn and attack as the real article, it would seem, casts a longer and larger shadow than the Protestant world can quite contain.

[Flyonthewall]

I feel so ashamed...the only good Zombie is a dead Zombie. ...

Um...aren't all zombies dead?

[LeSellers]

Um...aren't all zombies dead?

Well, if "dead" means "undead", then , yes, zombies are dead.

Sorta.

Lehi

[Rob Bowman]

Pahoran,

The Deseret News did acknowledge that Johnson said he was not criticizing Mormons but explaining how Southern Baptists view Mormons--but it gave no context to make Johnson's response understandable, and buried this comment deep in the story, after stating at the outset the following:

Is being a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the religious equivalent of being a zombie? Matthew Johnson, pastor of the First Baptist Church Smithton in Bellhaven, N.C., seems to think so.

After including an obligatory passing reference to Johnson's denial of this lie about his article, which you quoted, the Deseret News makes the following comment, which, irritatingly, you did not quote:

So when he says Mormons are like zombies he means it, you know, in a nice way.

If that isn't misrepresentation, nothing is.

[Storm Rider]

Pahoran,

The Deseret News did acknowledge that Johnson said he was not criticizing Mormons but explaining how Southern Baptists view Mormons--but it gave no context to make Johnson's response understandable, and buried this comment deep in the story, after stating at the outset the following:

After including an obligatory passing reference to Johnson's denial of this lie about his article, which you quoted, the Deseret News makes the following comment, which, irritatingly, you did not quote:

If that isn't misrepresentation, nothing is.

I guess I am not mollified by your attempt to explain the situation. He may have been chastising his fellow Baptists, but to call Mormons zombies, even if it is in a "nice way" is not appropriate. Is the standard of daily interaction that as long as I mean it in a nice way I can call groups anything I choose? That does not work in society. It was just poor way to make a point. That is not misrepresentation, but a statement of fact.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Um...aren't all zombies dead?

But the slowly walking flesh eating dead.

[Rob Bowman]

Storm Rider,

I'm sorry you didn't get it. Johnson was not calling Mormons zombies. Nor was he chastising "his fellow Baptists." He is a non-conservative Baptist chastising conservative Southern Baptists by saying (falsely) that they think of Mormons as zombies.

I guess I am not mollified by your attempt to explain the situation. He may have been chastising his fellow Baptists, but to call Mormons zombies, even if it is in a "nice way" is not appropriate. Is the standard of daily interaction that as long as I mean it in a nice way I can call groups anything I choose? That does not work in society. It was just poor way to make a point. That is not misrepresentation, but a statement of fact.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Storm Rider,

I'm sorry you didn't get it. Johnson was not calling Mormons zombies. Nor was he chastising "his fellow Baptists." He is a non-conservative Baptist chastising conservative Southern Baptists by saying (falsely) that they think of Mormons as zombies.

Ok what did I miss?

[cinepro]

The Deseret News article gets this story wrong. Actually, Matthew Johnson, the author of the article, is not demeaning Mormons at all. He is demeaning Southern Baptists for supposedly being irrationally fearful of Mormons. The author makes his stance clear when he criticizes the conservative resurgence in the SBC of a couple of decades ago. He is a Baptist who is critical of the conservative evangelical perspective of the SBC, and in particular of its insistence on the importance of sound doctrine--which was exactly the issue driving the conservative resurgence. (An example of the kind of doctrinal issues that led to the resurgence is the virgin birth of Christ.) All of this will be clear to anyone familiar with the SBC who reads Johnson's own article in full rather than just the Deseret News article about Johnson's article.

Having worked for the SBC for two years (2006-2008) and having been involved in SBC churches for many years before that, I can testify that Johnson's representation of Southern Baptists is a caricature.

I think you're misreading the article Rob.

The main point seems to be that Mormon doctrines are similar in many ways to the doctrines of the SBC, but they are different on key points, just as zombies are similar to humans in many ways, but different in critical ways. And, just as zombies attempt to increase their numbers by changing regular humans into zombies, Mormons increase their numbers by converting Baptists.

In addition to these conversions, the author also points out other ways in which Mormons are outdoing Baptists (missionary work, public perception).

Obviously, the analogy to zombies is humorous, but the point that Mormons are fundamentally different in doctrine from Baptists and that Baptists should be aware of Mormon growth (especially when it comes at the expense of Baptist membership) is very real.

If the article were written by an atheist, then you could argue he was poking fun at Baptist paranoia. But since the author is a Baptist pastor, issues of doctrinal validity and conversions are no joking matter, and I doubt he would be trying to tell his fellow Baptists to worry less about Mormon doctrinal differences and Mormon conversions of Baptists.

Edited November 10, 2011 by cinepro

[HeatherAnn]

The title of this thread made me laugh...because I think we are all a type of "zombie" (though I hadn't considered that word lol).

"Row, row row your boat, gently down the stream... merrily merrily merrily merrily... life is but a dream."

"We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep." - Shakespeare

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abidteh faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." - 1Cor 13:11-13

Many Theists (Mormon, Baptists, etc.) rely on theology to think for them - somewhat like children rely on their parents for opinions.

We'll never be "all knowing" but I think as we actively hope & strive for what is best (the ultimate truth/GOoD) - we increase our capacity to love, enjoy & improve this world.

Edited November 10, 2011 by HeatherAnn

[Cobalt-70]

The main point seems to be that Mormon doctrines are similar in many ways to the doctrines of the SBC, but they are different on key points, just as zombies are similar to humans in many ways, but different in critical ways. And, just as zombies attempt to increase their numbers by changing regular humans into zombies, Mormons increase their numbers by converting Baptists.

No. The main point of the Johnson article is that the SBC thinks Mormons are like zombies. It is that the SBC is in crisis, and that crisis is manifest in how the SBC currently views Mormons as zombie-like. Walker, of the Deseret News, completely misses the point. The Johnson article is not about Mormons being zombies. Clearly, Johnson does not think that Mormons are zombie-like. In fact, the Johnson article seems rather favorable toward Mormons, at least compared to people like Pastor Robert Jeffress. Johnson's point is that the Mormons are beating the SBC at its own game, and the SBC is bewildered as to why Mormons can do what the SBC cannot. Obviously (according SBC as Johnson sees it) the Mormons must be zombies, a view that Johnson obviously disagrees with.

[selek1]

Ironically, this is precisely the sort of "compromise", "accomodation", "common ground", and "help" that ministries such as Bowman's offer to faithful Mormons...

...and for almost precisely the same reasons...

Be warned.... this is an ear-virus of the first order.