Are Mormons Like Zombies? Yes A Real Story Linked In Mormon Times.

[ERMD]

The Deseret News article gets this story wrong. Actually, Matthew Johnson, the author of the article, is not demeaning Mormons at all. He is demeaning Southern Baptists for supposedly being irrationally fearful of Mormons. The author makes his stance clear when he criticizes the conservative resurgence in the SBC of a couple of decades ago. He is a Baptist who is critical of the conservative evangelical perspective of the SBC, and in particular of its insistence on the importance of sound doctrine--which was exactly the issue driving the conservative resurgence. (An example of the kind of doctrinal issues that led to the resurgence is the virgin birth of Christ.) All of this will be clear to anyone familiar with the SBC who reads Johnson's own article in full rather than just the Deseret News article about Johnson's article.

Having worked for the SBC for two years (2006-2008) and having been involved in SBC churches for many years before that, I can testify that Johnson's representation of Southern Baptists is a caricature.

Having lived among Southern Baptists my entire life, having graduated from Baylor University, having been confronted by other students to be accused of all manner of blasphemies, having witnessed the attempted dismissal of a tenured LDS professor because he "didn't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior", and having completed the required courses in religion there, I can testify that his representation is spot-on.

[Rob Bowman]

ERMD,

You wrote:

Having lived among Southern Baptists my entire life, having graduated from Baylor University, having been confronted by other students to be accused of all manner of blasphemies, having witnessed the attempted dismissal of a tenured LDS professor because he "didn't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior", and having completed the required courses in religion there, I can testify that his representation is spot-on.

Okay. Clearly, we have had different experiences. The SBC is big enough and we're probably both old enough that it's possible we are both reporting what we have personally observed.

That having been said, a lack of understanding of other people's religions is common in most settings. I'd be willing to bet that an evangelical attending BYU would hear all sorts of interesting things about evangelicals.

[BCSpace]

The most frightening thing for Southern Baptists, Johnson notes, is that "Mormons make a lie out of one of the most basic SBC denominational principles: correct doctrinal belief leads to spiritual success. And that scares Southern Baptists to death."

It's no lie. Mormons prove it true every day.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I think you're misreading the article Rob.

The main point seems to be that Mormon doctrines are similar in many ways to the doctrines of the SBC, but they are different on key points, just as zombies are similar to humans in many ways, but different in critical ways. And, just as zombies attempt to increase their numbers by changing regular humans into zombies, Mormons increase their numbers by converting Baptists.

This seemed obvious to me as well.

[ERMD]

I'd be willing to bet that an evangelical attending BYU would hear all sorts of interesting things about evangelicals.

I'd be willing to bet none of those things would approximate accusations of believing in the wrong Jesus or being compared to (in a "nice" way), some type of undead, counterfeit, imaginary creature.

While we're betting, how about this one-- I bet that more Evangelicals attending BYU convert to Mormonism than Mormons attending Baylor convert to "Evangelicalism".

Edited November 11, 2011 by ERMD

[Rob Bowman]

ERMD,

Sigh. Again, it was not a conservative Southern Baptist who characterized Mormons in that way. That was a non-conservative Baptist who looks down on the conservative Southern Baptist denomination and its members, and who was belittling those conservatives by portraying them as thinking of Mormons in that offensive way. I was offended by Johnson's article. You should not have been.

We could both take wild guesses as to which conversions are more numerous in your comparison, but I think such guesses would be worthless. But why put "Evangelicalism" in quotation marks?

I'd be willing to bet none of those things would approximate accusations of believing in the wrong Jesus or being compared to (in a "nice" way), some type of undead, counterfeit, imaginary creature.

While we're betting, how about this one-- I bet that more Evangelicals attending BYU convert to Mormonism than Mormons attending Baylor convert to "Evangelicalism".

[jo1952]

I feel so ashamed...the only good Zombie is a dead Zombie. Although they walk so slow, I can never figure out how they catch those who can outrun them.

The victims morph into a dreamlike but inevitable nightmare state where they just can't run and get away. Of course, this is never shown on camera; but is a well known effect of being chased by a Zombie. Just another reason why the only good Zombie is a dead un-dead Zombie.

http://brianherman.f...e-med-color.jpg

Love,

jo

Edited November 11, 2011 by jo1952

[jo1952]

Ironically, this is precisely the sort of "compromise", "accomodation", "common ground", and "help" that ministries such as Bowman's offer to faithful Mormons...

...and for almost precisely the same reasons...

Be warned.... this is an ear-virus of the first order.

Hahahaha.....this is great!!!

Love,

jo

[Nathair/|\]

The title of this thread made me laugh...because I think we are all a type of "zombie" (though I hadn't considered that word lol).

"Row, row row your boat, gently down the stream... merrily merrily merrily merrily... life is but a dream."

"We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep." - Shakespeare

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abidteh faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." - 1Cor 13:11-13

Many Theists (Mormon, Baptists, etc.) rely on theology to think for them - somewhat like children rely on their parents for opinions.

We'll never be "all knowing" but I think as we actively hope & strive for what is best (the ultimate truth/GOoD) - we increase our capacity to love, enjoy & improve this world.

There is an interesting lecture in this podcast about life as a dream you might enjoy. Also some good music.

[HeatherAnn]

There is an interesting lecture in this podcast about life as a dream you might enjoy. Also some good music.

Thanks, Nathair!

I'll check it out.

You're right - good music!

Just listened to the podcast - I REALLY like that, Nathair.

The idea of the resurrection happening here & now completely makes sense to me.

I believe the scriptures are mostly about here & now, not about after death... because what can we do then?

Paradox -too - we're dead (in awareness) - existing in Hades (underworld)... yet really, we're the dreamer/awareness - just need to notice. We think we're appearances, but we are that which is witnessing the appearance.

We die to who we think we are (superficial appearances) & pay attention to that pure subjectivity of who we are... & who others are.

I love it!

Edited November 13, 2011 by HeatherAnn

[jo1952]

There is an interesting lecture in this podcast about life as a dream you might enjoy. Also some good music.

Hi Nathair,

I listened to most of the podcast...the first song (which I enjoyed) and to the speaker. The next song was difficult to get through and the poem by the female lost me---I am not familiar with that type of genre and couldn't get into it. However, I really did enjoy listening to the speaker. For one thing, he has an incredible gift for expressing thought so that we can identify with what he is saying. I did not agree with all of his concepts, even though I understood them. Perhaps it is more of a difference in verbage and the definitions we attach to them. For instance, I believe that Jesus DID actually come in the flesh and Atoned for our sins rather than this just being a mythical story to explain the truth of our existence. Still, I believe there was much Truth which he did share. I believe that indeed we experience rebirth and resurrection (according to his definition) while we are in the flesh - this is our awakening to our spiritual awareness of who we really are; that we are not who we appear to be. This agrees with my belief that the earth is not what it appears to be, and that unseen supernatural powers are holding it into place. What we touch and see is not "real"; it is just a temporary and manufactured physicality for our benefit. It is a classroom created for our learning while we are in the flesh; but it is patterned after what exists spiritually - and will become a glorified and permanent "real" version once it is baptized by fire in the end times.

I believe that everything about this physical world, including our physical existence, is a pattern and type for what is happening in the spiritual realm. Of course, being eternal, even in our physical body, we are still inside of eternity. I see our world as a sort of bubble which has been assigned a "time" (which is reckoned differently than Father's "time"). Now, inasmuch as I believe we each do die in order to be reborn...and do so many, many times as we progress in our spiritual understanding (Paul died daily); I also believe that our physical death, like the physical death of the earth in the end times, will be true and real occurrences. As such, I believe that Christ will return as taught in scripture. Thus, I believe scripture portrays both physical and spiritual teachings of human birth, death, and resurrection; the Plan of Salvation plays out in more than one way and/or one layer of understanding. What I truly enjoyed about his talk was how willing he was to embrace and recognize the spiritual aspect of our existence; whereas, I believe, much of Christendom is neither able or willing to do. I kept remembering Paul's teaching of how we currently see through glass darkly; but at some point we will see things (including God) as they really are. I also very much enjoyed his references to what love is; though I think that in the spiritual realm, love and being truly one, will be much more than we can currently comprehend. However, love that we feel toward one another now is an inkling or shadow of this. From time to time I have experienced deeper glimpses of "love" or "oneness" which are definitely much more joyful and fulfilling (for which I have no words to describe) when the heavens have opened when Father allowed the Holy Ghost to reveal them to me.

I also believe that most, if not all, other world religions hold Truth as well. They merely have their own interpretations and portions of it; yet they all contain aspects which are similar and familiar to one another. Why wouldn't they?!! Anyway, I think he was spot on in some of his talk. Thank you for sharing this thought provoking link.

Love,

jo

Edited November 14, 2011 by jo1952