Why Do Women Make Us Feel So Stupid?

[KevinG]

At this point, society does very much allow men to verbally defend themselves.

Gone are the days when society cares about chivalry.

My wife on the other hand... cares very much about chivalry.

Edited November 4, 2011 by DaddyG

[Calm]

On the other hand, men are not permitted to defend themselves. It's socially unacceptable—chivalry and all that.

Lehi

There are plenty of ways guys can make women want to vanish into the floor without much effort.

And if one is going to start using domestic abuse as evidence that men are victimized by women, please note how often a woman is killed by her partner in comparison to men or ends up in the hospital. It may be socially acceptable for a woman to fight back, but that can put her in her grave. Instead her best choice often is to run away and live in fear of being found. Not too many men are forced into that situation.

Edited November 5, 2011 by calmoriah

[bluebell]

There are plenty of ways guys can make women want to vanish into the floor without much effort.

And if one is going to start using domestic abuse as evidence that men are victimized by women, please note how often a woman is killed by her partner in comparison to men or ends up in the hospital. It may be socially acceptable for a woman to fight back, but that can put her in her grave. Instead her best choice often is to run away and live in fear of being found. Not too many men are forced into that situation.

This is completely heresay because i can't remember where the information came from (so take it with a grain of salt), but i read a survey once that determined that when it came to women, men were most afraid that a woman would laugh at them.

When it came to men, women were most afraid that a man would kill them.

I thought that was pretty interesting.

[bluebell]

My wife on the other hand... cares very much about chivalry.

Me too! If society only had my standards.....

[Calm]

I don't mind chivalry, but when it comes to a man making decisions for me to "protect" me, I draw the line, especially as I've learned that is usually an excuse to allow him to go ahead and do what he wants without feeling guilty (women do it as well, but don't try to pass it off as chivalry, instead they pass it off as 'caring'.)

[Calm]

This is completely heresay because i can't remember where the information came from (so take it with a grain of salt), but i read a survey once that determined that when it came to women, men were most afraid that a woman would laugh at them.

When it came to men, women were most afraid that a man would kill them.

I thought that was pretty interesting.

http://www.pbs.org/kued/nosafeplace/articles/nightmare.html

A woman's worst nightmare? That's pretty easy. Novelist Margaret Atwood writes that when she asked a male friend why men feel threatened by women, he answered, "They are afraid women will laugh at them." When she asked a group of women why they feel threatened by men, they said, "We're afraid of being killed."

Edited November 5, 2011 by calmoriah

[Calm]

http://www.divorcesupport.com/divorce/What-are-the-statistics-of-men-killed-by-women-3336.html

"According to Bureau of Justice statistics, a 1992 survey of women killed showed that their relationship to the killer was known in 69 percent of homicides. Of that percentage, 28 percent were killed by spouse, ex-spouse, boyfriend or ex-boyfriend. That same study showed that of men killed in 1992, their relationship to the killer was known in 59 percent of homicides. Of that percentage, 3 percent were killed by spouse, ex-spouse, girlfriend or ex-girlfriend."

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/amanda-hess/2011/02/victims-of-domestic-violence-in-maryland-and-how-they-died-8651.html

Edited November 5, 2011 by calmoriah

[oats]

In what way do they make you feel stupid?

Most make me feel, overall, immature. On the whole they have a much better work ethic. It makes me lazy knowing that I can always count on a woman to pick up my slack.

So if guys realize women will do all the work, and they get lazy, does that mean the guy is smarter?

[Calm]

As Scrooge McDuck says " Work smarter, not harder."

[Kenngo1969]

There are plenty of ways guys can make women want to vanish into the floor without much effort.

And if one is going to start using domestic abuse as evidence that men are victimized by women, please note how often a woman is killed by her partner in comparison to men or ends up in the hospital. It may be socially acceptable for a woman to fight back, but that can put her in her grave. Instead her best choice often is to run away and live in fear of being found. Not too many men are forced into that situation.

Fair enough. I did not argue, and have not argued, that the situations are similar. My point was to argue against the proposition that women-on-men domestic violence simply does not occur. While the consequences are vastly different, it is more common that many people realize. With that concession, can this be the final word on the particular subject? It is, after all, my thread.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

I don't mind chivalry, but when it comes to a man making decisions for me to "protect" me, I draw the line, especially as I've learned that is usually an excuse to allow him to go ahead and do what he wants without feeling guilty (women do it as well, but don't try to pass it off as chivalry, instead they pass it off as 'caring'.)

True enough. I'm not sure how others use the term, but when I use it, I'm using it in the hold-doors, offer-a-hand, pull-a-chair-out, et cetera kind of a way.

[Calm]

Fair enough. I did not argue, and have not argued, that the situations are similar. My point was to argue against the proposition that women-on-men domestic violence simply does not occur. While the consequences are vastly different, it is more common that many people realize. With that concession, can this be the final word on the particular subject? It is, after all, my thread.

Sure.

[Kenngo1969]

In what way do they make you feel stupid?

Most make me feel, overall, immature. On the whole they have a much better work ethic. It makes me lazy knowing that I can always count on a woman to pick up my slack.

So if guys realize women will do all the work, and they get lazy, does that mean the guy is smarter?

See my post #13. Thanks.

[Ron Beron]

Women don't make men feel stupid. I think that men do quite well on their own.

[Calm]

Women certainly have a knack for it (making themselves feel stupid, not men).

[mercyngrace]

**Knock,Knock***

Hellllooooo. I hate to interrupt your club meeting but...

I just wanted to poke my head in the virtual door, bat my eyelashes a little, and say "Ken, I am so sorry that mean girl made you feel dumb. You just PM me whenever you need an ego boost and I'll remind you how awesome you are, okay?"

(PS Cal - if I'm not badly mistaken, this thread is for wound licking not reasoned debate. You quit harrassing these fellas with facts and let Ken vent his feelings in the safety his club. Besides, girls aren't allowed in the He Man Woman Haters club anyway.)

**Door closes as MnG sashays out of the club**

[Kenngo1969]

**Knock,Knock***

Hellllooooo. I hate to interrupt your club meeting but...

I just wanted to poke my head in the virtual door, bat my eyelashes a little, and say "Ken, I am so sorry that mean girl made you feel dumb. You just PM me whenever you need an ego boost and I'll remind you how awesome you are, okay?"

(PS Cal - if I'm not badly mistaken, this thread is for wound licking not reasoned debate. You quit harrassing these fellas with facts and let Ken vent his feelings in the safety his club. Besides, girls aren't allowed in the He Man Woman Haters club anyway.)

**Door closes as MnG sashays out of the club**

Thanks for your contribution, Mercy. It's always nice to hear from you.

[Kenngo1969]

**Knock,Knock***

Hellllooooo. I hate to interrupt your club meeting but...

I just wanted to poke my head in the virtual door, bat my eyelashes a little, and say "Ken, I am so sorry that mean girl made you feel dumb. You just PM me whenever you need an ego boost and I'll remind you how awesome you are, okay?"

(PS Cal - if I'm not badly mistaken, this thread is for wound licking not reasoned debate. You quit harrassing these fellas with facts and let Ken vent his feelings in the safety his club. Besides, girls aren't allowed in the He Man Woman Haters club anyway.)

**Door closes as MnG sashays out of the club**

If you disagree with the premise of a thread, or with your perceived purpose of a thread, you don't have to participate or contribute. Your failure to resist the impulse to do so on this occasion was neither merciful nor graceful. Contrary to your apparent opinion on the matter, your limited cyber interaction with me has not provided you with the insight into my character which you apparently feel you possess. As with all threads on the Board, a variety of opinions have been expressed in this one on the topic(s) under discussion. My mere sponsorship of the thread does not necessarily connote agreement with any of those positions.

[Kenngo1969]

Besides, I thought we men were supposed to be more in touch with our feelings and less afraid to express them? Does it not fit with your worldview for someone to dare to suggest that women aren't simply weak souls who wield absolutely no power whatsoever, who are instead completely at the Mercy (pardon the pun!) of the capricious whims of any and all men everywhere? Does it not fit your worldview to suggest that not only do women have power over men, they are, at least in the very rarest, most exceptional, least likely circumstance, at least the tiniest bit tempted to misuse it?

[MorningStar]

Is this just about you feeling nervous around women? I felt the same about guys when I was single. I got so tired of guessing what they were really thinking/feeling, the mixed messages, etc. One guy led me on for a year and when I moved on, he said, "So you didn't wait for me?" I said, "I waited for a year and you couldn't decide what you wanted!" He said, "It's not you, it's me." Blah blah blah. I'm so glad to be done with that kind of nonsense.

There are plenty of kind women out there. I don't know what's happening to you specifically, but don't let the lame ones taint all of us. There were guys who were my sanity back then - just friends. In fact, his best friend wanted to slug him because he was toying with my emotions.

[Kenngo1969]

Is this just about you feeling nervous around women? I felt the same about guys when I was single. I got so tired of guessing what they were really thinking/feeling, the mixed messages, etc. One guy led me on for a year and when I moved on, he said, "So you didn't wait for me?" I said, "I waited for a year and you couldn't decide what you wanted!" He said, "It's not you, it's me." Blah blah blah. I'm so glad to be done with that kind of nonsense.

There are plenty of kind women out there. I don't know what's happening to you specifically, but don't let the lame ones taint all of us. There were guys who were my sanity back then - just friends. In fact, his best friend wanted to slug him because he was toying with my emotions.

(Forgive me for ranting for a couple of paragraphs, Morningstar. I hope your "fragile psyche" can take it, and that you might be intelligent enough to know that the rant isn't directed at you. )

Eh, wot? You mean, I didn't start this thread merely because I'm irredeemably eeeeeee-vuhl for daring to suggest that not only might the odd woman or two here or there have at least some infinitesimally small degree of power over a man, but also that she might, however fleetingly, be the smallest bit tempted to misuse it? Pish-posh!

Yes, I know it goes both ways; I'll even grant for the sake of discussion that men do that far more often than women do. But I think part of the problem is that in those (verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry rare) cases in which women might (be the least bit tempted to) misuse their power over men (or at least, any power they might possibly [however unlikely the possibility] possess), such (verrrrrrrrrrrry rare) instances might possibly be more pernicious, because women's use of such power might be more subtle and less overt; and because women might possibly be reluctant to admit even possessing such power, let alone misusing it.

I'm on the Board of Directors of my local mental health agency, and we have engaged a consultant to assist us in making a difficult transition over the past year. In some ways, this discussion reminds me of a saying he likes to employ (he calls himself an "insultant" ). Apparently, this thread might have struck a nerve with some people. He says, "Sacred cows are best butchered and barbecued." I'm very sorry, but I think that the notions that women neither possess any power over men nor are they ever the least bit tempted to misuse it are sacred cows which are best butchered and barbecued.

Now, in answer to your question, Morningstar, I have tried to not allow my infrequent interactions with the odd woman or two, in which my intentions might tend ever-so-slightly toward the [Gasp!] romantic (at least, for one of us! ) to color my opinion of women generally or unduly to inhibit those interactions. I'm sorry to say that I've relapsed somewhat back into Cynical, Confirmed Bachelor, Go-Ahead-and-Ignore-Me-Romantically-Because-I'm-Largely-Content-to-be-Ignored Mode. However, I'll never hold anybody who might be genuinely interested in pursuing something romantic with me (however unlikely the possibility ) hostage to my cynicism. I won't force her to answer for any of the sins that any woman who has come before her might possibly have committed.

(And please forgive me for being such a chauvinistic pig! )

[bluebell]

I'm very sorry, but I think that the notions that women neither possess any power over men nor are they ever the least bit tempted to misuse it are sacred cows which are best butchered and barbecued.

I'm pretty sure no one on this thread has claimed any such notion, so barbeque that straw 'woman' with our full support!

[Kenngo1969]

[Garbage omitted; I've posted it twice before in response to MnG's rant, so you can't possibly miss it anyway] ... (PS Cal - if I'm not badly mistaken, this thread is for wound licking not reasoned debate. You quit harrassing these fellas with facts and let Ken vent his feelings in the safety his club. Besides, girls aren't allowed in the He Man Woman Haters club anyway.)

**Door closes as MnG sashays out of the club**

Cal, unlike "MercynGrace" (who, in this instance, has been neither of the two), I'm not at all convinced that such an apology is necessary, but please allow me to err on the side of caution, nonetheless. Apparently, I've engaged in such butchery, brutality, brutishness and boorishness against you (and possibly others in this thread) that I should apologize: thus, I'm deeply and profoundly sorry for whatever I have done that has compelled "MercynGrace" to come to your defense. Maybe "MercynGrace's" assessment of you differs from mine, but you've never struck me as particularly weak, thin-skinned, or unable to rise to your own defense when the occasion warrants. Still, please accept my apology for any offense.

[Kenngo1969]

I'm pretty sure no one on this thread has claimed any such notion, so barbeque that straw 'woman' with our full support!

Perhaps I'm just confused, but I think there's certainly a possibility that such a notion might underlie "MercynGrace's" complete misreading of my intent, as well as her drive-by (and, in my book, unnecessary) "defense" (I don't know what else to call it) of Calmoriah. Perhaps she knows something about the apparent fragility of Cal's constitution that the rest of us don't? (Cal has never struck me as particularly defenseless or fragile.)

[bluebell]

MnG wasn't defending Cal, she was teasing.