Your Religion In The Spotlight. Does It Cause You Anxiety?

[Senator]

Recently, with the high visibility of certain Mormon figures in the political scene, I have noticed an interesting phenomenom. Both my active LDS mother and brother have expressed a high level of anxiety when the subject of Mormonim comes up in any of the media venues.

For example, during a recent GOP debate, the subject was raised of Rev. Jeffress comments in regards to Romney's Mormon religion. The responding comments made by Romney and a few other candidates were all respectful. Yet, when it was coming to a conclusion, my mother spoke out and said, "why does this make me so anxious? You should feel my heart right now, it's absolutely racing!"

Later in discussions with my brother he also expressed that he gets very anxious when the church is talked about in the media, even when no hostility is being expressed. Why is this?

Does anyone else experience this?

I used to experience this as well. However, I don't any more and I attribute it to several years of immersion in critical discussion, such as takes place on this board.

There's obviously a psychological component at work here.

Any thoughts?

Edited October 30, 2011 by Nemesis

[Calm]

Not me, but I've been talking with people about my religion for eons so...

Now if they express interest in possible conversion, I get nervous then about saying the wrong thing that might give them the wrong idea and change their mind....

[Senator]

Mods,

If you care to correct the "Your" typo in the the title, feel free.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Senator

[Calm]

Mods,

If you care to correct the "Your" typo in the the title, feel free.

Mods don't read all the threads, you need to use the report or contact function to be sure.

[Senator]

Mods don't read all the threads, you need to use the report or contact function to be sure.

Thanks

[Senator]

Not me, but I've been talking with people about my religion for eons so...

Now if they express interest in possible conversion, I get nervous then about saying the wrong thing that might give them the wrong idea and change their mind....

I find that interesting.

I wonder, does this have something to do with how "promotionally minded" we (and the church) are?

[Nevo]

Does anyone else experience this?

I have to admit that I do get anxious when I hear Mormonism discussed in the media because it is shaping public perceptions and often not in a good way. Christopher Hitchens's recent screed against the "weird and sinister beliefs of Mormonism" felt like a punch in the gut. I was particularly dismayed that it was "liked" by over 6,000 people on Facebook, giving it even wider circulation. I hate to think of my co-workers being exposed to, and probably believing, such a hostile caricature of my beliefs.

A few months ago, a Broadway aficionado co-worker asked me if it was true that Mormons believe they will get their own planet someday. Taken off guard, I responded, "Well, I think that's more of a folk doctrine..." But then I added that Mormons do believe in the possibility of becoming like God. In hindsight, this probably wasn't the most satisfactory answer I could have given but I really wasn't prepared for the question.

[thesometimesaint]

Even with all the good will in the world. It isn't a good thing to tell someone what they believe. The second the animus of a competeing religion is tossed in, there isn't much good will involved.

[Questing Beast]

I have not experienced any anxiety for a long time. The main reason is that I don't care. People hold opinions. And if those opinions are changeable by the Media then they are lousy opinions. Why should I care about what people think based on what the Media "thinks"?...

[Mariner]

I have to admit that I do get anxious when I hear Mormonism discussed in the media because it is shaping public perceptions and often not in a good way. Christopher Hitchens's recent screed against the "weird and sinister beliefs of Mormonism" felt like a punch in the gut. I was particularly dismayed that it was "liked" by over 6,000 people on Facebook, giving it even wider circulation. I hate to think of my co-workers being exposed to, and probably believing, such a hostile caricature of my beliefs.

A few months ago, a Broadway aficionado co-worker asked me if it was true that Mormons believe they will get their own planet someday. Taken off guard, I responded, "Well, I think that's more of a folk doctrine..." But then I added that Mormons do believe in the possibility of becoming like God. In hindsight, this probably wasn't the most satisfactory answer I could have given but I really wasn't prepared for the question.

Nevo,

While I understand why the Christopher Hitchens article on Slate might be a source of anxiety, except for a novel description of baptism for the dead, I saw nothing in it regarding Mormons and Mormon beliefs that was not true.

I also noted that Hitchens described candidate Rick Perry as someone who " -- believes in miraculous births from virgins, talking snakes, walking cadavers, and other things that feel distinctly weird and cultish --. Do you think that Hitchens' comments on Rick Perry's stated beliefs would be a source of anxiety for the average Southern Baptist?

If so, why should this be?

[Calm]

I find that interesting.

I wonder, does this have something to do with how "promotionally minded" we (and the church) are?

What do you mean by "promotionally minded"?

I talk to people about religion because I am fascinated by it, I was often very disappointed that while people were interested in hearing about LDS, when I tried to get them to talk about their own beliefs most of the time they were reluctant. As far as me getting nervous when it went beyond casual conversation to possible conversion, the nervousness was caused by the idea I might harm them by saying or doing the wrong thing.

[Calm]

Nevo,

While I understand why the Christopher Hitchens article on Slate might be a source of anxiety, except for a novel description of baptism for the dead, I saw nothing in it regarding Mormons and Mormon beliefs that was not true; -- believes in miraculous births from virgins, talking snakes, walking cadavers, ?

Walking cadavers is not an accurate portrayal of belief for any Christian.

Edited October 30, 2011 by calmoriah

[Mariner]

Walking cadavers is not an accurate portrayal of belief for any Christian.

If you will read my post, you will see that I did not claim "walking cadavers" to be an accurate portrayal of Christian beliefs.

[Calm]

So you think the comment on shunning is an accurate description?

The "praying in"? The "honorary LDS members"? The claims about the John Birch Society? Etc.

Edited October 31, 2011 by calmoriah

[Senator]

What do you mean by "promotionally minded"?

We simply put our best foot forward, and are protective/oblivious/unsure/hostile as to exact whereabouts of the other foot. The church isn't exactly an open book, either from within or from without.

This is of course my humble opinion...

[Mariner]

So you think the comment on shunning is an accurate description?

Absolutely, and without a doubt.

Living in our home now we have an 18 year old female, whose faithful LDS High Priest father came home from work recently, declared that he wanted a divorce, and ordered the female members of the family out of the house. Within three weeks of this event, the shunning of the females (the spouse and18 year old and 9 year old daughters) had become so bad in their home ward that they started attending in another ward where their misfortune was not so well known.

Another personal example; a few years ago the returned missionary son of one of the families in our ward came out as gay. The shunning of him and his entire family was so severe that for this, and a myriad of other reasons, the entire family left the Church - every single one of them including parents siblings spouses and offspring.

If you really think that shunning (both directed and de facto ) is not a problem, I invite you to have a quick look at any of the Mormon Recovery boards on the internet.

[Calm]

And you think this was on orders from leaders? This is contrary to all teachings and instructions I've heard of.

Evidence please of it being directed.

Edited October 31, 2011 by calmoriah

[Garden Girl]

And you think this was on orders from leaders? This is contrary to all teachings and instructions I've heard of.

Having our LDS faith in the limelight can be a positive thing for members, who hopefully will have an opportunity to pass along accurate information in answer to questions, etc.

The only time I get nervous is when the mockers, scoffers and antis, like that ridiculous Pastor Jeffres who was relishing his being the center of attention as he judged a whole people and religion (Who gave him the right to judge who is a Christian and who is not?) as being non-Christian and a cult. I do believe he will have to answer for that ultimately.

And the only reason these types of people give me any pause is because they tend to misrepresent and/or misinterpret our doctrine or practices, putting it forth with as much sensationalism as possible (magic underwear comes to mind). Non-members who are not familiar with the Church would naturally be put off by such descriptions, and that's what bothers me... fortunately, many non-LDS have friends, family or co-workers who are members and so are familiar enough to recognize such rhetoric for what it is.

I actually welcome the opportunity for people to inquire about our faith...

from the beach on a rainy evening... praying for the eastern states hard hit by the early snow and without power. I feel more comfortable this year because I finally replaced my oil lanterns with two battery operated lanterns (and are they great!). No need to worry about fires, particularly if Bobby-cat knocked one over.

GG

[Mariner]

And you think this was on orders from leaders? This is contrary to all teachings and instructions I've heard of.

Evidence please of it being directed.

On the local level, the Bishop of the home ward for the three females let them know on no uncertain terms that he saw the wife as the "problem", that she should have done more to "support her husband" and that she should have expected the outcome. His attitude towards these three females, which included his unwillingness to help them in any way once they had been forced out of their home, was quickly adopted by others in the ward and the atmosphere there soon became toxic for the wife and two girls.

As a matter of general policy, since members are warned by General Authorities not to associated with apostates, all that need be done is that an individual be identified as an apostate (or a homosexual, and un-supportive wife, etc.). and the process can begin with human nature doing the rest. As I mentioned above, all of this can be very effectively done de facto while maintaining credible deniability, as your response demonstrates.

[TAO]

Mariner, my instinct tells me that your case is probably not a common scenario.

[Storm Rider]

Nevo,

While I understand why the Christopher Hitchens article on Slate might be a source of anxiety, except for a novel description of baptism for the dead, I saw nothing in it regarding Mormons and Mormon beliefs that was not true.

I also noted that Hitchens described candidate Rick Perry as someone who " -- believes in miraculous births from virgins, talking snakes, walking cadavers, and other things that feel distinctly weird and cultish --. Do you think that Hitchens' comments on Rick Perry's stated beliefs would be a source of anxiety for the average Southern Baptist?

If so, why should this be?

I think LDS do have a mindset similar to victims. Their beliefs have so often been caricatured or misrepresented or twisted out of recognition that there is a constant fear of another event similar to all the past events. Southern Baptists have such an in-depth history of being in control that there is no fear of being attacked or persecuted. LDS do and they continue to be persecuted to one degree or another.

[california boy]

Mariner, my instinct tells me that your case is probably not a common scenario.

The facts show otherwise.

Fifty Percent of Utah’s Homeless Youth Identify as GLBT

“A problem of cultural attitudes towards gay and transgender people”

Excerpted from “Throw-Away Kids” (QSaltLake, 12 August 2008)

Nationally, between 20 and 40 percent of all homeless youth identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender, according to a January 2007 report released by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. In 2007 these numbers held true for Utah according to a survey the Homeless Youth Resource Center, conducted of its drop-in clients. But in January and February 2008 something strange happened: the numbers jumped to slightly over 50 percent.

“Over half of our youth coming in at that time identified as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning or other,” said Teresa Stocks, Homeless Youth Resource Center program manager. In past surveys, she said, the numbers of such self-identified youth ranged “between 29 and 35 percent.”

Regardless of the reasons, one thing is clear: Utah has long had a number of teenagers and young adults living on the streets and a significant portion of that number are queer youth, many of whom are kicked out of their homes when they come out or when parents discover the truth about their sexual orientation or gender identity. And their situation makes University of Utah psychology student and gay homeless youth advocate Shannon Candice Metzler mad.

“We have an estimated 3,000 homeless youths in this state. Roughly 900 to 1,200 are self-identified as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender,” Metzler, a transgender woman who has herself been homeless for the past 11 months, wrote in a Deseret News letter to the editor on Aug 7. “Many are forced to escape from a home plagued with abuse and hate. At some point parents must be held accountable for throwing their children's lives into chaos.”

“It’s ridiculous that we say we’re so pro-family values, yet we leave kids to sleep outside in the cold,” said Metzler, who has of late spoken to Utah news outlets including City Weekly and the Salt Lake Tribune about youth whom she says regularly “fall between the cracks” in society. As a queer person, a student of psychology, a parent to two boys (ages 6 and 10) and someone who has experienced homelessness, Metzler said that helping gay and transgender homeless youth is her calling.

“They will get into drugs and alcohol and not be able to further their lives,” she said. “When we take them away from the stability of a home, school, access to food, what kind of future are we giving these kids?”

For Metzler, Utah just isn’t doing enough. And the problem, she said, is largely one of cultural attitudes towards gay and transgender people. The relative ease by which a parent can throw away a gay child, she said, is little more than “a socially approved way of reinforcing the norms of sexual orientation and gender identity.”

And enforcing those norms has a very human cost, especially as with few laws on the books to help gay and transgender ‘throw away kids.’

“But what about now, when we have kids who will freeze this winter,” she asked. “I want to see something happen now so that when we go from these hot temperatures into cold, we don’t treat them the same as we have been doing.”

[Storm Rider]

The facts show otherwise.

And that relates to the op exactly how? That one track mind does not help your single cause.

[LeSellers]

The facts show otherwise.

QSaltLake, on 12 August 2008']Fifty Percent of Utah’s Homeless Youth Identify as GLBT

Nationally, between 20 and 40 percent of all hoemless youth identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender, according to a January 2007 report released by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force. In 2007 these numbers held true for Utah according to a survey the Homeless Youth Resource Center, conducted of its drop-in clients. But in January and February 2008 something strange happened: the numbers jumped to slightly over 50 percent.

...

“We have an estimated 3,000 homeless youths in this state. Roughly 900 to 1,200 are self-identified as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender,”

Having once taught both physics and statistics (disciplines requiring some familiarity with arithmetic and mathematics), I find this a bit more than mere hyperbole.

There are several issues with the statement. First is, of course the publisher, a self-identified bias seems to color the numbers.

Second, ⁹⁰⁰/₃₀₀₀ = 30%; ¹²⁰⁰/₃₀₀₀ = 40%. Neither is 50%, and in even the "best" case, it's off by 20%: not close at all.

Third, if the numbers are 50% (advanced for argument's sake), why are all of the numbers mere estimates? Three thousand is a very round number. So are 900 and 1,200. Supposedly, the statistics are from actual interviews conducted at the "Homeless Youth Resource Center", so we might be able to determine something more accurate than ±33%.

Methinks that the numbers are gross overestimations, designed specifically to attack Utah (and by implicit extension, LDS) culture.Indeed, they appear to be no more than "Scientific" Wild-Eyed Guesses, "SWEGs", chosen more than estimated with a specific goal in mind well in advance of the "effort" used to create them.

This reminds me of Mitch Snyder's claim that 3,000,000 homeless people die on the streets of USmerica every day (in 100 days, there would be neither man, woman nor child left in USmerica, legal, illegal, queer, heterosexual, or orange), or the equally stupid claim that so many Africans died from deplorable conditions on the sea voyage to USmerica from their home (where their kings and neighbors captured and sold them to the Dutch) that sharks still swim those routes hoping for an easy meal, 220 years later )long-lived, those sharks).

Lehi

Edited October 31, 2011 by LeSellers

[Sky]

When the media scrutiny focuses on sensationalized things like getting your own planet in the afterlife, “magic underwear”, baptism for the dead, believing in a different Jesus, excessive devotion to the prophet in Salt Lake City, racism, sexism, and how intolerant we are of gay people, yes it does make me uneasy.

These stories paint a certain picture in people’s minds (that Mormons are crazy, deluded cultists). Often they leave out our own perspectives. They don’t help to increase understanding and mutual respect. They may contain hints of the truth, but also do a great deal of misrepresentation. They leave out the experiences that Mormons have in common with other people. In reality, Mormons are pretty regular people with regular jobs and careers and families who are trying to do their best to follow Christ’s teachings.