Garden Girl Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 It is my understanding from the news reports on this so far that not one Muslim student has complained against the University... that this lawsuit has been filed by a lawyer on his own, so whatever his agenda it isn't based on complaints by Muslim students. The Muslim students have said they enjoy the University and do not feel discriminated against... whether something more has developed since last night I don't know.My personal opinion is that this is a Catholic university, and if the various religious/Christian icons and sculptures are offensive to Muslims, they can go elsewhere where they won't have to behold such items...On a softer note, yes it might be nice if there was a room without any religious symbols... but what is next, not serving certain foods in the cafeteria... I forget where it was, but not long ago there was a Muslim group trying to prevent a buffet restrauant from serving pork on the food line because the pork was offensive to Muslims. We are running amok with this type of nonsense...GG
frankenstein Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 It is my understanding from the news reports on this so far that not one Muslim student has complained against the University... that this lawsuit has been filed by a lawyer on his own, so whatever his agenda it isn't based on complaints by Muslim students. The Muslim students have said they enjoy the University and do not feel discriminated against... whether something more has developed since last night I don't know.I have only read that the University has stated that it has not received any complaints. However, by way of comparision, during a job orientation a big, loud, burly manager comes in to the orientation to go over the employee handbook and such. He gets to one section and states "I love this section, it means I can fire you for what ever I want", he then goes on to speak about some of the procedures we will do as employees and he asks "None of you were ever bothered by these procedures when you were on the receiving end of them"....no one said stated they were, I know several think other wise, but when someone tells you " I can fire you for whatever reason I want" you tend to agree with what the person is saying. My point being that just because no one has come forward, does not mean some students are not bothered. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------It was Mormons and Catholics who got the US Supreme Court to agree that prayers at highschool football games violate the US Constitution. So I find that it is very likely that persons who are not Catholic would be bothered about praying under a cruxifix. Some Mormons seem to have such a negative reaction to the Cross that the LDS Prophet had to counsel against - and forshame to all of us that he had to do this during General Conference - mormon kids ripping symbols of a non-LDS persons faith from their body.
KevinG Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 The supreme court case was won because the "prayers" offered at the football games were done at a publicly funded school and their presentation and content were presented from one religious viewpoint only. One that was hostile to other belief systems.I was ashamed that we needed to be reminded to respect others right to worship freely. The case of LDS youth bullying others pales in comparison to the violence and intolerence of a large number of Islamists towards those of other faiths. But guess what? They are both wrong.Imagine an openly Catholic student attempting to practice their religion openly in a country under Islamic law? There just isn't a comparison. There is nothing in the law of God or the US Constitution that protects us from being offended by other peoples religious symbols. Especially in an institution sponsored by said religion. Of course there is a solution. Stop taking federal money and set the expectation that studying there will expose you to religious symbolism.
3DOP Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 Yes, this is my point, thank you Tao. I do not think they need to take any crosses down. A room without crosses should work fine. This beings a private school they knew this before applying I do not see how they need to change any policy. Kind of like an alcoholic walking into a bar and demanding no more alcoholic drinks., well perhaps not the best analogy...Anijen. Not the best but pretty good. How about like a Mormon walking into a bar and demanding no more alcohol?
ldsfaqs Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Non issue.... Just more liberal intolerant ideology being made manifest. It's a Catholic University. If a person didn't want to see Catholic icons everywhere, then they should have went to school elsewhere. I find the college being required to make a separate room just for them to be beyond the call, and having nothing to do with being charitable or tolerant. It's an abuse of power by the Muslims.If a Muslim eats or stays over at my home, there is no reason at all that I should have to remove things or provide a "free" (of me stuff) area, just so he can feel comfortable. If he willingly of his own free agency comes into my home, then it's up to him to be tolerant of who I am, not me be tolerant of him. Obviously, I'm being tolerant of him, allowing him in my home being friends maybe giving him a prayer rug, whatever. But, there is a limit. If he was offended by Pork, I might not cook pork, but I don't where pork around my neck or on my walls, so I can choose to not cook pork on a day he's there. But, if I had pork all over my walls or around my neck, that's a part of me. If he can't accept me, then he shouldn't be coming into my home.
ldsfaqs Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 It was Mormons and Catholics who got the US Supreme Court to agree that prayers at highschool football games violate the US Constitution.CFR.....? Where did you get this idea? Mormons would never try to get prayer out of schools. Prayer in school is a long LDS tradition. One of the towns I lived in my youth was an LDS town, and they did it. Prayer at the monday school meeting, prayer in the football locker room before a game, and prayer at the game.I'm a mormon, and have no problem with prayers at school. Of course, to be fair in a pluralistic society, all groups should be allowed to be represented that feel the need. One pray one day, another another day etc.So I find that it is very likely that persons who are not Catholic would be bothered about praying under a cruxifix. Some Mormons seem to have such a negative reaction to the Cross that the LDS Prophet had to counsel against - and forshame to all of us that he had to do this during General Conference - mormon kids ripping symbols of a non-LDS persons faith from their body.There is no "such a negative reaction" to the cross in mormonism. The kids example was simply the normal human condition thing that kids sometimes do. Either bullies or fighting back against a bully, they attack something that is cherished by the individual. Same thing would have happened had it been a star of david, a yin and yang symbol, or anything else, like a book bag, a shoe, etc. The likelyhood that actual religious intolerance was involved is slim. Further, it's just a story that happened, not as if it's something widespread in the Church. Mormons don't give a rats behind what people where, and crosses are so common place, why would we care? It was just a story to remind LDS of being tolerant. That is all.
frankenstein Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 CFR.....? Where did you get this idea? Mormons would never try to get prayer out of schools.It would be really nice, if, before you begin your typical speel of telling the board what mormons do or do not do, that you actually did some research.Mormons sue over prayer at public schoolsThough, the people who claimed to mormons teamed up with Satan incarnate ACLU those "mormons" probably are not mormons after all, because No mormon would ever ever ever do anything that involved Satan incarnate ACLUI'm a mormon, and have no problem with prayers at school. Of course, to be fair in a pluralistic society, all groups should be allowed to be represented that feel the need. One pray one day, another another day etc.The likelyhood that actual religious intolerance was involved is slim.Well we could always discuss what the Prophet said and how he presented it, but as I recall, he presented as religious intolerance.Mormons don't give a rats behind what people where, and crosses are so common place, why would we care? It was just a story to remind LDS of being tolerant. That is all.Mike Reed might disagree, though if you ask, he might send you an autograph copy of his book about Mormons and The Cross, but being that has liberal arts degree and on top of that is a confessed apostate cultural/cafeteria mormon, he surely is incapable of speaking any truth concerning the LDS Church, LDS members, and the "history" of the Cross within the LDS Church or among the membership of the LDS Church.
KevinG Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Frankenstein, from your article..."The lawsuit started when the two families objected to what they called a "pattern of majority religious practice" that had infiltrated the schools, and was isolating members of minority religions."The issue went beyond a simple prayer. The majority religion in this case was using a publicly funded institution to isolate other religions. These "prayers" included put downs of other religions and were accompanied by discriminatory practices against children in minority religions.My own children have been the victims of this kind of discrimination in their own High School when the Baptist leader of the ecumenical Bible class decided that Mormons could not speak in class or offer prayers even though they weren't preaching Mormonism during the class. He aggrivated the policy by preaching against Mormons in that ecumencal student led class. While my family chose to leave him to his bigotry rather than sue - I can understand the Texas case quite well. It is a world of difference from outsiders insisting on special accomidation at a private institution that happens to take some federal aid.
kolipoki09 Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Now lets get down to the meat of the issue. Brigham Young University forcing me to shave my sexy three day stubble. In the 90s no less.There goes DaddyG again, posting pictures of himself from his glory days at BYU. From the looks of his inherently rebellious nature, I take it he wrote for the Student Review.
Ares Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 It would be really nice, if, before you begin your typical speel of telling the board what mormons do or do not do, that you actually did some research.Mormons sue over prayer at public schoolsThough, the people who claimed to mormons teamed up with Satan incarnate ACLU those "mormons" probably are not mormons after all, because No mormon would ever ever ever do anything that involved Satan incarnate ACLUI'm a mormon, and have no problem with prayers at school. Of course, to be fair in a pluralistic society, all groups should be allowed to be represented that feel the need. One pray one day, another another day etc.Well we could always discuss what the Prophet said and how he presented it, but as I recall, he presented as religious intolerance.Mike Reed might disagree, though if you ask, he might send you an autograph copy of his book about Mormons and The Cross, but being that has liberal arts degree and on top of that is a confessed apostate cultural/cafeteria mormon, he surely is incapable of speaking any truth concerning the LDS Church, LDS members, and the "history" of the Cross within the LDS Church or among the membership of the LDS Church.Mike is not a part of this thread. Don't bash him here.
frankenstein Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Mike is not a part of this thread. Don't bash him here.Apparently using inflammatory langauge is so accepted and common place here that others do not understand that I made no attack on mike reed. But I am positive that ldsfaqs would state that mike reed is a liberal apostate who can speak no truth.... So I was actually bashing ldsfaqs with my mike reed comment and my comment about mormons who team up with the aclu can not be real mormons because as ldsfaqs stipulaute mormons would never do such a thing.
thesometimesaint Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 frankenstein:As a private institution they can choose to include or exclude whatever person or group of people from recognition, and defacto support, of any reason they want.It is like a lacrosse team complaining that the football team doesn't have a room set aside for Lacrosse players.
frankenstein Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 frankenstein:As a private institution they can choose to include or exclude whatever person or group of people from recognition, and defacto support, of any reason they want.Perhaps. Perhaps not. If the issue was that easily decided, do you think the OHR would have required a response from the school?
Log Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 See story hereI think it would not hurt to provide a room with out Christian icons for them. I think it would actually be a Christian thing to do.See response here.
ERayR Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 See response here.Puts it in a new light doesn't it. Perhaps someone needs to give this guy a dose of his own medicine and file for reimbursement for filing frivolous lawsuits.
Avatar4321 Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 It is my understanding from the news reports on this so far that not one Muslim student has complained against the University... that this lawsuit has been filed by a lawyer on his own, so whatever his agenda it isn't based on complaints by Muslim students. The Muslim students have said they enjoy the University and do not feel discriminated against... whether something more has developed since last night I don't know.My personal opinion is that this is a Catholic university, and if the various religious/Christian icons and sculptures are offensive to Muslims, they can go elsewhere where they won't have to behold such items...On a softer note, yes it might be nice if there was a room without any religious symbols... but what is next, not serving certain foods in the cafeteria... I forget where it was, but not long ago there was a Muslim group trying to prevent a buffet restrauant from serving pork on the food line because the pork was offensive to Muslims. We are running amok with this type of nonsense...GGYour understanding is correct. This was started by an attorney/professor of another school who is trying to start a controversy. No student, as of yet, has shown any problem with praying in the rooms. More than likely because they are respectable to other faiths.I also agree. That if you don't like the symbols, you've picked a poor choice in schools and you should get over it.
Calm Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 What is a shame is that rather than promoting tolerance, this lawyer is likely increasing anger or resentment due to people thinking it is the Muslim students pushing for this.
Sleeper Cell Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 What is a shame is that rather than promoting tolerance, this lawyer is likely increasing anger or resentment due to people thinking it is the Muslim students pushing for this.Even worse, he is doing it in the name of promoting “human rights.”These six things doth the Lord hate; yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood; an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief; a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
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