Modernizing Bom Language

[LeSellers]

Alma 39:10 (Alma is talking to his son Corianton)

“And I command you to take it upon you to counsel with your elder brothers in your undertakings; for behold, thou art in thy youth, and ye stand in need to be nourished by your brothers. And give heed to their counsel.”

It seems that Corianton is plural, then singular, then plural again.

I can show you (plural) more if you (plural) would like.

No one claimed that Joseph's (or Oliver's) grammar was "perfect", or even "good".

It might be nice if those sorts of idiosyncratic, non-standard words and phrases were "cleaned up". I know a good editor, coincidentally named "Lehi", who'd love to take on the challenge, with Apostolic supervision.

Lehi

[Nathair/|\]

One such potentially confusing passage would be Matt 16:19, where Jesus tells Peter that He would give him the keys of the kingdom. Jesus says, "I will give unto thee the keys ...", but if we read it "I will give you the keys...' the confusion would be whether Jesus meant Peter alone (the correct answer), or to Peter, Jacob/James, and John (the three Apostles who were there with Him), or the Twelve all together. Some (those who reject Priesthood authority and keys entirely) might even assume if it was for any and all believers, the way they misunderstand and misapply the so-called "Great Commission".

The archaic pronoun "thee" in this passage is extremely helpful in deciding what it was that Jesus meant here.

(Note for any nit pickers: Yes, I know that in the next chapter, Jesus promises the keys to all the Twelve, but that is a different issue, isn't it?)

Lehi

I need to get a modern Irish language Bible to see how they translate it. My translation from English of the first is "Beidh mé tabhairt dhuit na heochracha." and the second is "Beidh mé tabhairt dhaoibh na heochracha."

Edited November 2, 2011 by Nathair

[Thinking]

No one claimed that Joseph's (or Oliver's) grammar was "perfect", or even "good".

It might be nice if those sorts of idiosyncratic, non-standard words and phrases were "cleaned up". I know a good editor, coincidentally named "Lehi", who'd love to take on the challenge, with Apostolic supervision.

It's interesting to note that the changes have been made in Spanish.

"Y te mando que te comprometas a consultar con tus hermanos mayores en tus empresas; porque he aquí, eres joven, y necesitas ser fortalecido por tus hermanos. Y atiende a sus consejos.

[LeSellers]

It's interesting to note that the changes have been made in Spanish.

"Y te mando que te comprometas a consultar con tus hermanos mayores en tus empresas; porque he aquí, eres joven, y necesitas ser fortalecido por tus hermanos. Y atiende a sus consejos.

In French:

10 Et je te commande de prendre sur toi de tenir conseil avec tes frères aînés dans tes entreprises; car voici, tu es dans ta jeunesse, et tu as besoin d'être nourri par tes frères. Et prête attention à leurs recommandations.

In Italian

10 E ti comando di impegnarti a prendere consiglio dai tuoi fratelli maggiori nelle tue imprese; poiché ecco, sei ancora giovane e hai bisogno di essere nutrito dai tuoi fratelli. E presta attenzione ai loro consigli.

Since Italian uses few nominative pronouns, the "thous" don't show up except as suffixes for the verbs, and they, too, are "corrected" for the singular second person.

Lehi

[Jack]

They could replace thousands of 'it came to pass' with 'like, ya know' and reach the youth of the Church?

[Calm]

What I am not attached to is the language of the Book of Mormon or what kind of paper it is written on. Those things are irrelevant, temporal, and vain. The message and witness of Christ contained within the Book of Mormon is what is eternal, precious, and true, not how many thee(s), thou(s), and it came to pass(es) are in it.

May I suggest you get 71 of your Elder friends to write up their modern version of the BOM alongside yours and then if there is no difference between them, you'll know you did it right and if there are differences, simply form a committee of the 47 most knowledgeable and best writers among them to hammer out the best version among all the choices.

Edited November 3, 2011 by calmoriah

[ERayR]

May I suggest you get 71 of your Elder friends to write up their modern version of the BOM alongside yours and then if there is no difference between them, you'll know you did it right and if there are differences, simply form a committee of the 47 most knowledgeable and best writers among them to hammer out the best version among all the choices.

Great idea.

Edited November 3, 2011 by ERayR

[KevinG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcSUWP0QNeY

[Saints Alive]

May I suggest you get 71 of your Elder friends to write up their modern version of the BOM alongside yours and then if there is no difference between them, you'll know you did it right and if there are differences, simply form a committee of the 47 most knowledgeable and best writers among them to hammer out the best version among all the choices.

so do you believe that you cant say something with different words and still convey the same message?

[Calm]

so do you believe that you cant say something with different words and still convey the same message?

I am at a loss where this question came from as it seems completely unrelated to my comment so if you could explain why you are asking it of me?

[KevinG]

so do you believe that you cant say something with different words and still convey the same message?

Coming up with the same langugage would be evidence of inspiration. Buy your point is correct - translations can differ and carry similar and identical meanings.

Having a message filtered through several people (such as modernizing scripture language) can have the unintended effect of losing some of the meaning as people translate the translation. I think that is one reason the church has felt no need to modernize the English versions of the Book of Mormon.

[Saints Alive]

Hopefully they would compare any and all translations to the original to prevent any meaning loss. In any case I think it is 100% possible to modernize the BOM's language without loosing any meaning.

[mnn727]

We Mormons complain about the Bible losing meaning because of multiple translations, so we extend that to the BoM. But the argument fails in that we already translate the BoM into multiple languages with no loss in meaning.

It's already being translated into over 100 languages (many with no archaic barriers to language) and the Church keeps growing.

Frankly it would be better to continually update the language rather than wait 2000 years, If we were to update it every 50 years or so we would ensure understanding the original meaning to be able to chose the correct choice of words.

Edited November 3, 2011 by mnn727