Duncan Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 In Doctrine and Covenants 82:10 it says: "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise".What does it mean to bind the Lord and how does that translate into someone else's agency? If I want to baptize 200 people will God give me 200 people to baptize irregardless of their agency or what is the inter-play between me the Lord and someone else?
cdowis Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 He is talking about the covenants that we take. An example is partaking of the sacrament -- we keep our side of the covenant and He is "bound" to give us the Holy Ghost, for example. It has nothing to do with another person, except for the sealing of spouse and family in the temple.
Nathair/|\ Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 It means that He must keep his promises. If He says He will do something, He will do it. In the case of the scenario you proposed, if you simply say, "I want to baptize 200 people," this scripture is irrelevant. However, if He says, "If you go to Hank Hanegraaff's offices, you will baptize 200 people," and you comply, it will happen.
wenglund Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) The binding is a function of the covenant between God and man. The covenants are not compelled, but freely entered into by both parties, and as such it doesn't violate the principle of free agency.The covenants consist of God agreeing to do certain things, himself, as promised when we satisfy our end of the covenant by obeying his commandments. (See D&C 130:18-19)When God enters into a covenant, it is on his terms and according to his wants. We enter into a covenant with him when our wants align or become one with his.So, our wanting to baptize 200 people isn't a part of our covenant with God. Rather, the baptism of 200 people, if they so choose, would be a covenant between each of them, individually, and God.Thanks, -Wade Englund- Edited October 13, 2011 by wenglund 1
cdowis Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) I think I know why you are asking. The Evangelists have recently been using this term.The Lord has given us specific covenants to which we bind ourselves with the Lord. Even in the case of the temple rites, the binding does not come at the time tha the covenant is made but when it is fulfilled. This is the doctrine of justification, where the Holy Spirit of Promise seals the covenant when we have fulfilled the promises that we have made. The Lord is then bound to do as He promised.Sanctification is part of that process, when we are cleansed from our sins.Covenants, sanctification, justification, and the Holy Spirit of Promise, sealing, binding, and having our calling and election made sure are all concepts in this doctrine. Peter was giving the keys of binding and unbinding, and the President of the church has all of those keys today.We cannot be bound by covenant without the priesthood power, and that is the primary difference between those who enter the Celestial and Terrestrial (heaven) kingdom. Edited October 13, 2011 by cdowis
Duncan Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 I think I know why you are asking. The Evangelists have recently been using this term.The Lord has given us specific covenants to which we bind ourselves with the Lord. Even in the case of the temple rites, the binding does not come at the time tha the covenant is made but when it is fulfilled. This is the doctrine of justification, where the Holy Spirit of Promise seals the covenant when we have fulfilled the promises that we have made. The Lord is then bound to do as He promised.Sanctification is part of that process, when we are cleansed from our sins.Covenants, sanctification, justification, and the Holy Spirit of Promise, sealing, binding, and having our calling and election made sure are all concepts in this doctrine. Peter was giving the keys of binding and unbinding, and the President of the church has all of those keys today.We cannot be bound by covenant without the priesthood power, and that is the primary difference between those who enter the Celestial and Terrestrial (heaven) kingdom.I wasn't thinking about any evangelicals actually! haha! I was thinking about a ward correlation mtg last night with a missionary wanting to "bind the Lord" and I was like oh....ya....well good on ya
Senator Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I wasn't thinking about any evangelicals actually! haha! I was thinking about a ward correlation mtg last night with a missionary wanting to "bind the Lord" and I was like oh....ya....well good on yaShazzam!That was my mission Pres. mantra. "Bind the Lord, Elders. Bind the Lord"
Calm Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) I find that potentially troubling. Unless one understood that the Lord gives blessings in the time and method that he chooses and gives what we need, not necessarily what we want, I can see someone's expectations not being met leading to doubt.Also the way it is spoken makes it sound like the elders or anyone else can bind the Lord when it is the Lord who binds himself as we do when we commit ourselves to a promise. It is not a legal contract that can be enforced by an outside agency nor is there any way for us to force God to do anything that he does not desire to do. Edited October 13, 2011 by calmoriah 1
Duncan Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 I find that potentially troubling. Unless one understood that the Lord gives blessings in the time and method that he chooses and gives what we need, not necessarily what we want, I can see someone's expectations not being met leading to doubt.Also the way it is spoken makes it sound like the elders or anyone else can bind the Lord when it is the Lord who binds himself as we do when we commit ourselves to a promise. It is not a legal contract that can be enforced by an outside agency nor is there any way for us to force God to do anything that he does not desire to do.all good stuff! I need to write this down now!
Storm Rider Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) In Doctrine and Covenants 82:10 it says: "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise".What does it mean to bind the Lord and how does that translate into someone else's agency? If I want to baptize 200 people will God give me 200 people to baptize irregardless of their agency or what is the inter-play between me the Lord and someone else?Sometimes I think LDS stretch their interpretation of the Lord being bound out of context. In this verse, I understand the Lord to tell us that he has made covenants with us. These covenants have his full commitment; he will honor them. We also are bound to them and in honoring them we fulfill our covenant and the Lord will fulfill his.What has he asked us to do? What covenants has he made with humanity? I am not aware of any specific covenants to individuals to baptize 200 people. In fact, I don't think the Lord works in such ways. It is not a covenant the Lord would make. When he asks us to fulfill the Great Commission he asks us to preach, teach, testify. It is not our responsiblity to baptize. The Holy Spirit converts and the convert seeks baptism as a natural response. Whether people listen or not is irrevelant; are we willing to testify, or be lead by the Spirit? Does this make sense to you? Edited October 13, 2011 by Storm Rider
Duncan Posted October 13, 2011 Author Posted October 13, 2011 Sometimes I think LDS stretch their interpretation of the Lord being bound out of context. In this verse, I understand the Lord to tell us that he has made covenants with us. These covenants have his full commitment; he will honor them. We also are bound to them and in honoring them we fulfill our covenant and the Lord will fulfill his.What has he asked us to do? What covenants has he made with humanity? I am not aware of any specific covenants to individuals to baptize 200 people. In fact, I don't think the Lord works in such ways. It is not a covenant the Lord would make. When he asks us to fulfill the Great Commission he asks us to preach, teach, testify. It is not our responsiblity to baptize. The Holy Spirit converts and the convert seeks baptism as a natural response. Whether people listen or not is irrevelant; our we willing to testify, or be lead by the Spirit? Does this make sense to you?it does!
Storm Rider Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 I think a subset of your question is about faith. If we have faith the size of a mustard seed we could move mountains. These is where potential problems arise in understanding context and faith. Faith does not allow us to trample the free agency of others. Faith is also built upon being in union with the Godhead. Having faith does not mean we can independently move mountains contrary to the will of God. It means that having faith our minds and hearts are in union with God's. If it is God's will that the mountain be moved, it will be moved; the earth will cease to revolve around the sun, and all things become possible. Exaltation is being in total union with the Godhead in all ways. Their thoughts become ours. That is one of the great glories of the Atonment of Christ; he offers us the opportunity to enter into total communion with the Father. In closing, faith is not a genie in the bottle that will allow us to rub it at will to accomplish our will. That is the antithesis of what it is. The foundation of faith is the Godhead and it never leaves that foundation behind or becomes independent from them.
Lightbearer Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 First the "binding the Lord" idea spoken of in Section 82, is referring to our covenant relationship we have with God. If we keep the covenant, God is "bound" meaning He will bless us according to the covenant. I have seen many examples of missionaries and others who think that we can "bind" the Lord according to our own desires. Unfortunately for them they have the mistaken idea that we can set a goal, then live the mission rules and poof = baptisms. Sorry to burst the bubble but it does not work in that manner. I think some leaders think that the conversion process is some sort of multi-level maketing sceme... but it depends on many factors, first the will of the Lord. It must be in HIS own due time... not on our timetable. Second the agency of those we teach is of paramount importance. It cannot be done against their free will. Lucifer found that out the hard way. Also the motives of those seeking to "bind" the Lord in such a way must be pure. It cannot be to "gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness," but it must be to glorify God and to bless the lives of those being taught. The point is, we should be obedient to mission rules and follow the council of Church leaders but even when we do all that is required still we cannot force the human heart, we can love them (which is a key element...if you have not charity then ye are nothing) and pray for them and teach them, but there is no "instant" conversions. That is done by the Lord through His spirit, if not then it is not of God. 1
CV75 Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) In Doctrine and Covenants 82:10 it says: "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise".What does it mean to bind the Lord and how does that translate into someone else's agency? If I want to baptize 200 people will God give me 200 people to baptize irregardless of their agency or what is the inter-play between me the Lord and someone else?I think the phrase "binding the Lord" is a poor way of expressing covenanting with Him in the covenants He has established. Covenants with the Lord can be between an individual and Him, a couple and Him, or groups (like Zion) and Him. Exercising individual agency is not constrained by the numbers of people sharing the same covenant as individuals, couples or groups.Sometimes there is a big difference between understanding and doing what the Lord says and wanting to do something of one's own accord. But assuming the two are in alignment, God's purposes will be fulfilled without compromising anyone's agency, and they will be fulfilled on His timetable. Edited October 13, 2011 by CV75
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