How Would You React If Your Spouse Decided To Leave The Church?

[Calm]

No one's eternal progression can be damaged by the actions of another, even if that individual is one's spouse. It can only be damaged by one's own actions such as turning one's back on a loving, chaste spouse because of differences, even ones as fundamental as faith. One's temple covenants remain intact unless one decides to personally violate them, they are not affected by a spouse's violation of hers.

If a bishop pulls a recommend it is because he thinks the individual is no longer worthy. Our worthiness is due to a great part on how we treat others, especially our families and spouses. A choice to end a marriage because your spouse does not meet a particular standard MAY be a selfish choice depending on that standard and your reasons for it.

Edited October 18, 2011 by calmoriah

[Calm]

Pardon any errors, I have only an iPad with a small reply box that I can't scroll through to correct or add in the best place.

[Calm]

I guess I wouldn't know where she came from, but not being able to spend eternity with her now I know where she will be going! Divorce court!

Just to be clear, this is the post I was responding to as there is no indication of any effort to make the marriage work under the new conditions nor is there any indication of any change in the hypothetical wife in regards to other things such as love, chastity, a desire to make the marriage work, etc.

[blackstrap]

Is it not true that all the covenants that are entered into in mortality,from baptism on,only have an effect in eternity if done by the proper authority AND are based on the worthiness of the individual?Eternal marriage,to be of any effect ,must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.Otherwise it is of no more force than a temporal one.Such sealing is NOT automatic. If one spouse leaves the church and does not repent and return,that marriage is dissolved upon death.Christ compared the Israelites to fornicators because they followed not the Lord but went after other gods. Fornication(adultery) is a valid reason for divorce. The scriptures warn against being unequally yoked. That said, I think the attitude of the spouse will be a major factor in the continuation of the marriage.To require that the other spouse leave also would definitely be a deal breaker.

[Calm]

The scriptures also say the unbelievingly spouse is sanctified by the believing, iirc.

How do you know your spouse will never repent and return?

The eternal aspects of the marriage may be null and void does this mean the 'for time' covenants are?

The "adultery" that is committed is against the Lord, not the spouse. It is therefore up to the Lord to decide if divorce is an option, IMO.

Edited October 18, 2011 by calmoriah

[emeliza]

I wrote:

I do know, that if a wife commits adultery and divorces, she must have written permission from her ex-spouse to remarry in the Temple with another. Anyone else know about this?

This is first hand through witnessed experience. It was explained that because the wife was unfaithful, committed Adultery and the Temple Marriage ended in divorce, that when she remarried, she told me personally that she had to get written permission from him because (A) she committed the sin (B) he held the Priesthood. It may have been written permission to desolve the sealing I don't remember. That is why I asked if anyone else could help out on this. I am no authority on the subject. I know there are several Bishops and ex-Bishops in here that would know!

It doesn't matter which spouse or if there is adultery involved.

If a man wants to marry another women in the temple and is still sealed to a women, he must attempt to get permission from the first spouse to be sealed to the second women.

If a women wants to be sealed to another man and was previously sealed, she must attempt to get permssion from her first spouse to have that sealing dissolved so that she can marry another in the temple.

[One Clear Voice]

It doesn't matter which spouse or if there is adultery involved.

If a man wants to marry another women in the temple and is still sealed to a women, he must attempt to get permission from the first spouse to be sealed to the second women.

If a women wants to be sealed to another man and was previously sealed, she must attempt to get permssion from her first spouse to have that sealing dissolved so that she can marry another in the temple.

Please discuss this with your Bishop, it is my understanding the the LDS male will have several wifes in the Kingdoms of Heaven. Women will not. (Husbands) The man holds the Priesthood but for whatever reasons, and I don't claim to have all the answers, the male spouse is the one and only one who has to give the other spouse permission to be sealed to another man in this life. Now usless the first sealing has been dissolved completely, this may not be the case. I do know there are Bishops in here who can answer this. Any help out there?

[thesometimesaint]

blackstrap:

It is also by our personal wants. If a couple really wants to be Sealed together in Heaven a way is there. OTOH a couple who doesn't want to Sealed together won't.

[Saints Alive]

One Clear voice:

if a man wants to be sealed to another woman he must receive a "sealing clearance" as opposed to a cancelation. His sealing is still in effect but the first presidency must approve (and i believe the former spouse must approve as well) of the sealing. Ultimately with or without a former spouses approval the final decision is up to the first presidency

reference: CHI 1 3.6.1

Edited October 19, 2011 by Saints Alive

[emeliza]

One Clear voice:

if a man wants to be sealed to another woman he must receive a "sealing clearance" as opposed to a cancelation. His sealing is still in effect but the first presidency must approve (and i believe the former spouse must approve as well) of the sealing. Ultimately with or without a former spouses approval the final decision is up to the first presidency

reference: CHI 1 3.6.1

Yep,t hat is what I said. A husband is supposed to get 'approval' from the first spouse to be sealed to the second spouse (no cancellation of the sealing). A wife must attempt to get 'approval' from the first husband to get a sealing cancellation to be sealed to the second husband.

Please discuss this with your Bishop, it is my understanding the the LDS male will have several wifes in the Kingdoms of Heaven. Women will not. (Husbands) The man holds the Priesthood but for whatever reasons, and I don't claim to have all the answers, the male spouse is the one and only one who has to give the other spouse permission to be sealed to another man in this life. Now usless the first sealing has been dissolved completely, this may not be the case. I do know there are Bishops in here who can answer this. Any help out there?

Correct, a man can be sealed to more than one women. A women can only be sealed to one man during mortality. However to complete a second sealing or get a cancellation, the spouse must get 'permission' if possible from the first spouse. If it is not possible or they can't get an 'approval' I believe the First Presidency (or whomever they delegate to it) decides....of course either way the paper work goes to the First Presidency when asking for a second sealing or sealing cancellation.

[diglot]

Perhaps I can spice things up by answering the question of this thread from a different perspective.

I am an evangelical and my wife is too. So I will answer "how would I react if my wife converted to the LDS Church".

In a nutshell, I wouldn't be terribly worried. I mean, my wife is a very intelligent lady and I know that if she ever converted to the LDS Church, she must have very good reasons. Naturally, though, I would be curious to discover what these reasons are, and would make sure she had a balanced and in-depth knowledge of LDS theology and history.

Regardless of her reasons, I doubt that her conversion would be the impetus for my own conversion. And the thought of divorce seriously would not ever in a million years enter my mind.

Edited October 24, 2011 by diglot

[cinepro]

To answer the question in the OP, I would be absolutely shocked.

We wouldn't get divorced, and I would stay in the Church even if she didn't want me to.

Edited October 24, 2011 by cinepro

[sjdawg]

I would hope that couples would stay together. There are so much more important issues that ones religious affiliation.

[rongo]

There is no person of Authority in the LDS church that would cause you to lose your Temple worthiness should you choose to leave/divorce your Temple mate.

It would depend on why a person left his spouse or divorced. We have a prominent brother and a prominent sister in our stake who are facing formal Church discipline at the stake level for leaving their spouses for each other (prominent as in high council and stake Relief Society Presidency and concurrent seminary teachers; they both divorced, but the timing of the divorces strongly appears to post-date mid-life crisis behavior on the part of both. The brother’s wife had also recently been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis when he told her he was divorcing her). There are any number of scenarios where a member could have his temple privileges suspended or revoked because of leaving/divorcing a spouse, depending on the circumstances (but not simply because of separation or divorce, in and of themselves).

They would simply encourage you or “counsel" you to stay with, forgive and work with one's wayward spouse in an effort to salvage the Temple marriage and sealing.”

You act as if this would be a matter of course. I can assure you that, depending on the circumstances, priesthood leaders may also counsel people to separate or divorce, or at least express that they understand and sanction doing so.

Have I heard of such cases? Sure! The handsome college couple, who entered into the temple vows with hopes and dreams and goals only to have the wife let herself go, put on 200 lbs., and after two years of working with, purchasing fitness memberships, diet programs, etc, etc, the wife simply told him that this is what he signed up for! Like it and live with it! Yes, he was counseled by his Priesthood authority to not leave his wife and sever the sealing but he did. Nothing happened to him! I have never heard of this happening anywhere!

1) This would be an example of tragic falling apart of a marriage, with the fault debatable, but not rising to the level of requiring suspension or revocation of temple privileges. These things happen in every ward in the Church, unfortunately, but on their face are not grounds for temple restrictions. I don’t think anyone (or precious few) would argue that they are.

2) When sealed members divorce, the sealings are almost never cancelled/severed/dissolved. Sealings are almost always cancelled only when the divorcees want to be sealed to other people, and these must be authorized by the First Presidency. What almost always happens is that people obtain a legal divorce, but remain sealed on Church records.

I do know, that if a wife commits adultery and divorces, she must have written permission from her ex-spouse to remarry in the Temple with another. Anyone else know about this? . . . Anyone else have any experiences in this matter?

It’s not correct to view it as “written permission” from an ex-spouse --- it’s really a letter offering the person an opportunity to share details or information concerning the request (anything they feel has a bearing on it or that the First Presidency should know). I once had an ex-spouse who told his ex-wife that if she ever tried to be sealed to someone else, he would stop that in its tracks with his letter. His letter (which we included in the application to the First Presidency) had absolutely no effect on her successful request for a cancellation of sealing, but it did give him an opportunity to “have his say.”

This is first hand through witnessed experience. It was explained that because the wife was unfaithful, committed Adultery and the Temple Marriage ended in divorce, that when she remarried, she told me personally that she had to get written permission from him because (A) she committed the sin (B) he held the Priesthood. It may have been written permission to dissolve the sealing I don't remember. That is why I asked if anyone else could help out on this. I am no authority on the subject. I know there are several Bishops and ex-Bishops in here that would know!

Again, this wouldn’t be “written permission,” it would be the standard required letter from the ex-spouse concerning his/her view/take on the factors and details. This is required in any application to the First Presidency, and has nothing to do with who committed a sin, or who does or doesn’t hold the priesthood, etc.

I cannot believe for one minute a priesthood holder in authority would threaten anyone with anything, let alone if he was leaving his wife.

Well, one man’s “threatening” is another man’s “exhorting/counseling.” If a bishop asks for a person’s temple recommend, is that “threatening?” What about an “if/then” warning?

No one can force another to stay married against their will. They are instructed by the General Authorities to counsel them into reconciliation.

The first sentence here is true; the second one seems to contradict the first one, doesn’t it? Couldn’t mandated “counseling . . . into reconciliation” be akin to “forc[ing] another to stay married against their will,” depending on the details and circumstances? You can’t counsel people to reconcile who are dead-set against the prospect, and there are circumstances where you wouldn’t want to insist on reconciliation.

Please discuss this with your Bishop, it is my understanding the the LDS male will have several wives in the Kingdoms of Heaven.

We don’t know if men (or all men, or most men, or some men) will have several wives in the celestial kingdom. There is certainly a basis in latter-day scripture and historical LDS discourse for assuming this, but we actually don’t know for sure.

Women will not [be sealed to multiple husbands in the hereafter].

This is complicated. The handbooks of instruction say that women cannot be sealed to more than one man, but the First Presidency grants exceptions to this on a case-by-case basis (this is very rare). I am personally aware of two such cases, and I’m aware of other cases, too. How this will be sorted out in the hereafter, who knows?

The man holds the Priesthood but for whatever reasons, and I don't claim to have all the answers, the male spouse is the one and only one who has to give the other spouse permission to be sealed to another man in this life. Now unless the first sealing has been dissolved completely, this may not be the case. I do know there are Bishops in here who can answer this. Any help out there?

No, the First Presidency does. Big difference. As outlined above, the man’s “permission” only serves as input for the First Presidency for considering it, at most. It actually wouldn’t hinge on his “permission.”

[Calm]

Women can be sealed to all their husbands after death. This is standard procedure for women who are receiving proxy endowments. I do not know if it is standard for those who were living at the time of a sealing, but I have heard of women being sealed to additional husbands after death. Don't know if there is any specific policy on this or not.

This is usually explained as the wife and the Lord will choose which husband the sealing is in force for, but as far as I know there is no actual revelation on it.

[Saints Alive]

Women can be sealed to all their husbands after death. This is standard procedure for women who are receiving proxy endowments. I do not know if it is standard for those who were living at the time of a sealing, but I have heard of women being sealed to additional husbands after death. Don't know if there is any specific policy on this or not.

there is, and it is in CHI 1, ask your bishop about it

[Calm]

Checked, that's how I remembered it, it makes no difference except in timing if a woman was sealed while she was living, eventually once all are deceased, all legal marriages can be sealed together....which has some implications I believe about just what her choice of her potential eternal companions will actually be about.

Edited October 27, 2011 by calmoriah

[Thankful]

This happened to me. I couldn't have correctly predicted my response before it did. But we are ok. I think that if you have a strong and loving marriage, you'll weather a spouse's disbelief just fine. If not, this will be another source of hurt and conflict to add to the list.

There is no reason disbelief alone should equal divorce though. You learn lots about agency, commitment, and love. I've struggled with my own faith and trying to teach the gospel as a parent. But I wouldn't give up my marriage for anything. My husband is my true love-in or out of the church. I suspect most of you would feel the same. I second the suggestion that someone in this situation visit the "Faces East" website.

[Calm]

Well said.

And welcome to the board.