On Hell

[Damien the Leper]

This is an odd topic for me because h*** is not particularly strong in my personal theology. Considering the origin of Sheol (Hbr) and Gehenna (Grk) as used in the Hebrew Bible and the NT h*** was never meant to be a place of punishment for disobedient human creation. From my understanding, that specific realm of existence was solely meant for the rebellious that fell before creation began.

Any other thoughts on this?

Edited September 27, 2011 by Nemesis
Title Edit

[Sky]

If that’s true, it doesn’t sound like we humans will be held accountable for what we do. That doesn’t sound right.

[cdowis]

He11 is a state of being between death and the final judgement. The person suffers the complete knowledge and clear understanding of the consequences of his actions and decisions if the atonement did not wash away those sins.

Edited September 26, 2011 by cdowis

[The Nehor]

Doctrine and Covenants 19 seems clear that it involves suffering as the Savior did.

[Ahab]

This is an odd topic for me because h*** is not particularly strong in my personal theology. Considering the origin of Sheol (Hbr) and Gehenna (Grk) as used in the Hebrew Bible and the NT h*** was never meant to be a place of punishment for disobedient human creation. From my understanding, that specific realm of existence was solely meant for the rebellious that fell before creation began.

Any other thoughts on this?

Sheol and Gehenna both refer to where our spirits go after we die, with that place being divided into a good place (paradise) and a bad place (h***-o).

[Damien the Leper]

If that’s true, it doesn’t sound like we humans will be held accountable for what we do. That doesn’t sound right.

Sky, I don't know if you're LDS but the traditional concept of h*** is somewhat foreign to LDS theology. Outer Darkness is more what I spoke of in my OP.

Perhaps it is appropriate to propose the question of "DOES GOD GET WHAT GOD WANTS?". When the scriptures speak of renewal and reconciliation, new creation, healing, etc. what does that mean? What does that look like? This line of thought should be more closely looked at. Considering the Apocalyptic canonical writings and their contrast to the nature of God's ultimate love, mercy and justice...I'll take the latter.

I ask again....Does God get what He wants?

[The Nehor]

Sky, I don't know if you're LDS but the traditional concept of h*** is somewhat foreign to LDS theology. Outer Darkness is more what I spoke of in my OP.

I would disagree. The reality of h*** is continually reaffirmed in our scriptures. LDS seem to soft-pedal it a lot by (correctly) also calling it prison and (incorrectly) assuming they are two different things.

[Damien the Leper]

Sheol and Gehenna both refer to where our spirits go after we die, with that place being divided into a good place (paradise) and a bad place (h***-o).

Sheol is not exclusive in its concept. It is a place outside of God's light for both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Gehenna is an actual valley described as the Valley of the Son of Hinnom. It was a physical valley meant for the wicked.

Hades is as neutral as Sheol.

The understanding that I attained concerning the pre-Creation rebellious was actually a proposed and not un-popular idea that is being discussed at greater lengths in academic settings due to more critical study of culture and context.

I reserve the right for my position to change if at some time I believe this to be wrong.

[Damien the Leper]

The mythology as described in Dante's Inferno is a morbid and yet beautifully poetic misunderstanding, IMO, of a dark afterlife.

[CV75]

From my understanding, that specific realm of existence was solely meant for the rebellious that fell before creation began.

God get what He wants?

Not to be overly simplistic or smart-alecky, but what in the following sources (and the related references) limits "h***" to the rebellious that fell before creation began? Also, how do the references indicate that God does not get what He wants?

http://lds.org/study/topics/h***?lang=eng

http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/h/32

http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/gs/h/26

[zerinus]

Not to be overly simplistic or smart-alecky, but what in the following sources (and the related references) limits "h***" to the rebellious that fell before creation began? Also, how do the references indicate that God does not get what He wants?

http://lds.org/study...s/h***?lang=eng

http://classic.scrip....org/en/bd/h/32

http://classic.scrip....org/en/gs/h/26

The first link was broken because the word heII in the URL was censored! But I was able to restore it. And the information provided in the first link is contradicted by the second and third links. The second and thrid links give a more correct definition for heII than the first link.

[CV75]

The first link was broken because the word heII in the URL was censored! But I was able to restore it. And the information provided in the first link is contradicted by the second and third links. The second and thrid links give a more correct definition for heII than the first link.

Thank you for straightening that out.

Please point out the contradictions you mention exist. As I’ve highlighted the three references I’ve provided, I found four themes but haven’t identified contradictions between how the themes are addressed:

(1) Bold Black: There are two doctrinal meanings for hell.

(2) Bold Red: Spirit prison, a temporary state prior to resurrection for those without knowledge or disobedient; gospel is taught and ordinances received by proxy; includes those who do not repent, are not resurrected until after the Millennium, and who inherit telestial glory.

(3) Bold Blue: The permanent location (outer darkness) of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition that continues after the resurrection and judgment, and is reserved for those who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ and inherit no kingdom of glory.

(4) The non-bolded black provides some historical / traditional reference and use of the term.

Study By Topic

http://lds.org/study...s/hell?lang=eng

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Spirit prison is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances of salvation that are performed for them in temples (see D&C 138:30-35). Those who accept the gospel may dwell in paradise until the Resurrection. After they are resurrected and judged, they will receive the degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who choose not to repent but who are not sons of perdition will remain in spirit prison until the end of the Millennium, when they will be freed from hell and punishment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:81-85).

Those who are not redeemed by the Atonement are in outer darkness, which is the dwelling place of the devil, his angels, and the sons of perdition (see D&C 29:36-38; 76:28-33). Sons of perdition are those who receive “no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame” (D&C 76:34-35; see also D&C 76:31-33, 36-37). Such individuals will not inherit a place in any kingdom of glory; for them the conditions of hell remain (see D&C 76:38; 88:24, 32).

Bible Dictionary

http://classic.scrip....org/en/bd/h/32

An English translation of the Hebrew word Shoel, hell signifies an abode of departed spirits and corresponds to the Greek Hades. In common speech it generally denotes the place of torment for the wicked, although it has been often held, both in the Jewish and the Christian churches, that Hades (meaning broadly the place of all departed spirits) consists of two parts, paradise and Gehenna, one the abode of the righteous and the other of the disobedient. “Gehenna,” or “Gehenna of fire,” is the Greek equivalent of the “valley of Hinnom,” a deep glen of Jerusalem where the idolatrous Jews offered their children to Moloch (2 Chr. 28: 3; 2 Chr. 33: 6; Jer. 7: 31; Jer. 19: 2-6). It was afterwards used as a place for burning the refuse of the city (2 Kgs. 23: 10), and in that way became symbolical of the place of torment (Matt. 5: 22, 29-30; Matt. 10: 28; Matt. 18: 9; Matt. 23: 15, 33; Mark 9: 43, 45, 47; Luke 12: 5; James 3: 6). Expressions about “hell-fire” are probably due to the impression produced on men’s minds by the sight of this ceaseless burning, and are figurative of the torment of those who willfully disobey God.

In latter-day revelation hell is spoken of in at least two senses. One is the temporary abode in the spirit world of those who were disobedient in this mortal life. It is between death and the resurrection, and persons who receive the telestial glory will abide there until the last resurrection (D&C 76: 84-85, 106), at which time they will go to the telestial glory. In this sense the Book of Mormon speaks of spiritual death as hell (2 Ne. 9: 10-12). Hell, as thus defined, will have an end, when all the captive spirits have paid the price of their sins and enter into a degree of glory after their resurrection. Statements about an everlasting hell (Hel. 6: 28; Moro. 8: 13) must be interpreted in their proper context in the light of D&C 19: 4-12, which defines eternal and endless punishment.

On the other hand, the devil and his angels, including the sons of perdition, are assigned to a place spoken of as a lake of fire - a figure of eternal anguish. This condition is sometimes called hell in the scriptures (2 Pet. 2: 4; D&C 29: 38; D&C 88: 113). This kind of hell, which is after the resurrection and judgment, is exclusively for the devil and his angels, and is not the same as that consisting only of the period between death and resurrection. The one group are redeemed from hell and inherit some degree of glory. The other receive no glory. They continue in spiritual darkness. For them the conditions of hell remain.

Guide to the Scriptures

http://classic.scrip....org/en/gs/h/26

Latter-day revelation speaks of hell in at least two senses. First, it is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality. In this sense, hell has an end. The spirits there will be taught the gospel, and sometime following their repentance they will be resurrected to a degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who will not repent, but are nevertheless not sons of perdition, will remain in hell throughout the Millennium. After these thousand years of torment, they will be resurrected to a telestial glory (D&C 76: 81-86; 88: 100-101).

Second, it is the permanent location of those who are not redeemed by the atonement of Jesus Christ. In this sense, hell is permanent. It is for those who are found “filthy still” (D&C 88: 35, 102). This is the place where Satan, his angels, and the sons of perdition—those who have denied the Son after the Father has revealed him—will dwell eternally (D&C 76: 43-46).

The scriptures sometimes refer to hell as outer darkness.

Edited September 27, 2011 by CV75

[Ahab]

Thank you for straightening that out.

Please point out the contradictions you mention exist. As I’ve highlighted the three references I’ve provided, I found four themes but haven’t identified contradictions between how the themes are addressed:

(1) Bold Black: There are two doctrinal meanings for hell.

(2) Bold Red: Spirit prison, a temporary state prior to resurrection for those without knowledge or disobedient; gospel is taught and ordinances received by proxy; includes those who do not repent, are not resurrected until after the Millennium, and who inherit telestial glory.

(3) Bold Blue: The permanent location (outer darkness) of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition that continues after the resurrection and judgment, and is reserved for those who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ and inherit no kingdom of glory.

(4) The non-bolded black provides some historical / traditional reference and use of the term.

Study By Topic

http://lds.org/study...s/hell?lang=eng

Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. Second, it is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Spirit prison is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances of salvation that are performed for them in temples (see D&C 138:30-35). Those who accept the gospel may dwell in paradise until the Resurrection. After they are resurrected and judged, they will receive the degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who choose not to repent but who are not sons of perdition will remain in spirit prison until the end of the Millennium, when they will be freed from hell and punishment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:81-85).

Those who are not redeemed by the Atonement are in outer darkness, which is the dwelling place of the devil, his angels, and the sons of perdition (see D&C 29:36-38; 76:28-33). Sons of perdition are those who receive “no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame” (D&C 76:34-35; see also D&C 76:31-33, 36-37). Such individuals will not inherit a place in any kingdom of glory; for them the conditions of hell remain (see D&C 76:38; 88:24, 32).

Bible Dictionary

http://classic.scrip....org/en/bd/h/32

An English translation of the Hebrew word Shoel, hell signifies an abode of departed spirits and corresponds to the Greek Hades. In common speech it generally denotes the place of torment for the wicked, although it has been often held, both in the Jewish and the Christian churches, that Hades (meaning broadly the place of all departed spirits) consists of two parts, paradise and Gehenna, one the abode of the righteous and the other of the disobedient. “Gehenna,” or “Gehenna of fire,” is the Greek equivalent of the “valley of Hinnom,” a deep glen of Jerusalem where the idolatrous Jews offered their children to Moloch (2 Chr. 28: 3; 2 Chr. 33: 6; Jer. 7: 31; Jer. 19: 2-6). It was afterwards used as a place for burning the refuse of the city (2 Kgs. 23: 10), and in that way became symbolical of the place of torment (Matt. 5: 22, 29-30; Matt. 10: 28; Matt. 18: 9; Matt. 23: 15, 33; Mark 9: 43, 45, 47; Luke 12: 5; James 3: 6). Expressions about “hell-fire” are probably due to the impression produced on men’s minds by the sight of this ceaseless burning, and are figurative of the torment of those who willfully disobey God.

In latter-day revelation hell is spoken of in at least two senses. One is the temporary abode in the spirit world of those who were disobedient in this mortal life. It is between death and the resurrection, and persons who receive the telestial glory will abide there until the last resurrection (D&C 76: 84-85, 106), at which time they will go to the telestial glory. In this sense the Book of Mormon speaks of spiritual death as hell (2 Ne. 9: 10-12). Hell, as thus defined, will have an end, when all the captive spirits have paid the price of their sins and enter into a degree of glory after their resurrection. Statements about an everlasting hell (Hel. 6: 28; Moro. 8: 13) must be interpreted in their proper context in the light of D&C 19: 4-12, which defines eternal and endless punishment.

On the other hand, the devil and his angels, including the sons of perdition, are assigned to a place spoken of as a lake of fire - a figure of eternal anguish. This condition is sometimes called hell in the scriptures (2 Pet. 2: 4; D&C 29: 38; D&C 88: 113). This kind of hell, which is after the resurrection and judgment, is exclusively for the devil and his angels, and is not the same as that consisting only of the period between death and resurrection. The one group are redeemed from hell and inherit some degree of glory. The other receive no glory. They continue in spiritual darkness. For them the conditions of hell remain.

Guide to the Scriptures

http://classic.scrip....org/en/gs/h/26

Latter-day revelation speaks of hell in at least two senses. First, it is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality. In this sense, hell has an end. The spirits there will be taught the gospel, and sometime following their repentance they will be resurrected to a degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who will not repent, but are nevertheless not sons of perdition, will remain in hell throughout the Millennium. After these thousand years of torment, they will be resurrected to a telestial glory (D&C 76: 81-86; 88: 100-101).

Second, it is the permanent location of those who are not redeemed by the atonement of Jesus Christ. In this sense, hell is permanent. It is for those who are found “filthy still” (D&C 88: 35, 102). This is the place where Satan, his angels, and the sons of perdition—those who have denied the Son after the Father has revealed him—will dwell eternally (D&C 76: 43-46).

The scriptures sometimes refer to hell as outer darkness.

Kinda creepy that you described Hell using red, white, and blue.

I think maybe black and orange and a puked color green would be more appropriate next time.

[zerinus]

Thank you for straightening that out.

Please point out the contradictions you mention exist. As I’ve highlighted the three references I’ve provided, I found four themes but haven’t identified contradictions between how the themes are addressed:

<snip>

The contradiction is found in the first sentence of each passage:

Study by Topic:

First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality.

Bible Dictionary:

One is the temporary abode in the spirit world of those who were disobedient in this mortal life.

Guide to the Scriptures:

First, it is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality.

In the first passage, "those who died without a knowledge of the truth" don't go to hell--unless they have been very wicked as well. Hell is the place for the wicked, whether you are talking about the spirit world or after the resurrection. Those who have died without a knowledge of the gospel, but have lived honorable lives, are not sent to hell in the spirit world. They go to paradise, where they are taught the gospel, and prepared to come forth in the first resurrection if they accept it.

Edited September 27, 2011 by zerinus

[CV75]

Kinda creepy that you described Hell using red, white, and blue.

LOL -- definitely not a political statement there.

[CV75]

The contradiction is found in the first sentence of each passage:

Study by Topic:

First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality.

Bible Dictionary:

One is the temporary abode in the spirit world of those who were disobedient in this mortal life.

Guide to the Scriptures:

First, it is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality.

In the first passage, "those who died without a knowledge of the truth" don't go to hell--unless they have been very wicked as well. Hell is the place for the wicked, whether you are talking about the spirit world or after the resurrection. Those who have died without a knowledge of the gospel, but have lived honorable lives, are not sent to hell in the spirit world. They go to paradise, where they are taught the gospel, and prepared to come forth in the first resurrection if they accept it.

Interesting. I think the difference is not so much a contradiction in teaching as it is a reflection of the purpose and emphasis of the three sources. The Study By Topic is more well-rounded and makes this distinction fairly clear; the Guide to the Scriptures only alludes to it (“The spirits there will be taught the gospel, and sometime following their repentance they will be resurrected to a degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who will not repent, but are nevertheless not sons of perdition, will remain in hell throughout the Millennium.”); and the BD focuses more explicitly on the negative aspect of what “hell” means, and excludes the teaching that the honorable are taught in spirit prison.

Gospel Principles seems to draw the teachings in these three sources together:

“Spirit Prison

The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). After suffering for their sins, they will be allowed, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom.”

From this, for those without a knowledge of the truth, spirit prison constitutes a continuation of ignorance until they are taught and receive the Gospel. Since they are still enticed by both good and evil, it is not a place of suffering for their sins, and as they learn the truth, the “honorable” can actually become hopeful and happy and enter into spirit paradise.

On the other hand, for those who reject the Gospel in this life or the next (the “dishonorable”), spirit prison is a place of suffering for their sins until they are resurrected and receive a telestial glory.

Thus the distinction between “suffering in ignorance until hope is extended” and “suffering for sin” is made.

Gospel Principles teaches more fully that hell, as spirit prison, is home for two types of people: 1) the honorable without a knowledge of the truth (until they accept it); and 2) the dishonorable who reject the truth. For the first type, it is a place of learning, and for the second type, it is a place of suffering. The first type leave the prison and enter paradise; the second type does not. Hell is 1) the permanent outer darkness of Satan and his followers; and 2) the temporary spirit prison for both the honorable (until they move to paradise) and the dishonorable (until the resurrection into the telestial kingdom).

This is the non-colorized version.

Edited September 27, 2011 by CV75

[zerinus]

Gospel Principles seems to draw the teachings in these three sources together:

“Spirit Prison

The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

This I believe is incorrect. Peter uses the phrase “spirits in prison” to refer to the antediluvian sinners who were destroyed in the Flood; who had been extremely wicked. They had defied every effort by Noah to convert them; and in the end they had tried to kill him. It was meant as a place of punishment for those wicked spirits (see Moses 7:35-40).

Peter doesn’t “refer to the postmortal spirit world as a prison”. His reference is exclusively to those wicked spirits who were destroyed in the Flood. The whole of the spirit world is not a “sprit prison”. Moses 7:35-40 clarifies that point beyond reasonable doubt; and it is clarified further still in D&C 138.

The only scripture that seems to slightly deviate from this is D&C 76:73, which seems to suggest that the people of the terrestrial order will also assigned to the “spirit prison”. But a careful reading suggests that that may not apply to all the spirits who are of the terrestrial order, but some of them. Those who have been honourable, and have not had the opportunity to accept or reject the gospel, will not be assigned to the “spirit prison”.

But generally speaking, I would say that the Gospel Principles manual is definitely incorrect in teaching that “The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison”. I don’t believe that he did.

Edited September 27, 2011 by zerinus

[CV75]

But generally speaking, I would say that the Gospel Principles manual is definitely incorrect in teaching that “The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison”. I don’t believe that he did.

As far as the OP goes, it seems that we have shown that hell does involve elements punishment for some and suffering in ignorance for others until they are rescued, and that this is consistent with what God wants in the consequence of sin and ignorance.

As far as the three links (the Study by Topic, Bible Dictionary and Guide to the Scriptures) go, they are not so much in contraction but each one emphasizes or expands upon a different aspect of the word/term "hell."

I think we can allow as correct the Gospel Principles manual describing I Peter 3:18-20 as Peter referring to the postmortal spirit world as a prison simply because these verses do not mention the postmortal spirit world paradise. All these three lines of scripture portray is the spirit prison for the disobedient, and that the Lord preached to them there, which according to modern revelation was not exactly the case (D&C 138:28-30).

Because of modern revelation about paradise, the manual goes on to qualify Peter’s reference that the postmortal spirit world is a prison by interjecting, “which it is for some.” Because of D&C 138:32, it also goes on to explain that the prison is also a place for those who died sinning ignorantly and/or without the gospel / knowledge of the truth.

Aside from that, it seems to me that the Spirit World has subsets of Paradise and Prison; Prison has subsets of the honorable that died without a knowledge of the truth and the rebellious that did. Hell can be used to describe any of these in their own way, as even the righteous can be said to feel a sense of bondage while awaiting the resurrection in paradise (D&C 138:50; 45:17).

[CV75]

P.S. it just dawned on me that Peter may have been conceptualizing only two places / conditions after this life: prison for the not-yet resurrected, and heaven for the resurrected. I take this from 1st Peter 3: 22, where the resurrected Christ goes to the right hand of God in heaven in juxtaposition to the not-yet resurrected in prison (only a portion of which was disobedient), which included Himself during the three days of preaching and setting up His missionary force there prior to His resurrection.

Edited September 28, 2011 by CV75

[zerinus]

As far as the OP goes, it seems that we have shown that hell does involve elements punishment for some and suffering in ignorance for others until they are rescued, and that this is consistent with what God wants in the consequence of sin and ignorance.

As far as the three links (the Study by Topic, Bible Dictionary and Guide to the Scriptures) go, they are not so much in contraction but each one emphasizes or expands upon a different aspect of the word/term "hell."

I think we can allow as correct the Gospel Principles manual describing I Peter 3:18-20 as Peter referring to the postmortal spirit world as a prison simply because these verses do not mention the postmortal spirit world paradise. All these three lines of scripture portray is the spirit prison for the disobedient, and that the Lord preached to them there, which according to modern revelation was not exactly the case (D&C 138:28-30).

Because of modern revelation about paradise, the manual goes on to qualify Peter’s reference that the postmortal spirit world is a prison by interjecting, “which it is for some.” Because of D&C 138:32, it also goes on to explain that the prison is also a place for those who died sinning ignorantly and/or without the gospel / knowledge of the truth.

Aside from that, it seems to me that the Spirit World has subsets of Paradise and Prison; Prison has subsets of the honorable that died without a knowledge of the truth and the rebellious that did. Hell can be used to describe any of these in their own way, as even the righteous can be said to feel a sense of bondage while awaiting the resurrection in paradise (D&C 138:50; 45:17).

Thank you for your explanation; but I still find this quote problematic: "The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison". It does not appear to me to be an accurate restatement of what Peter had said.

[zerinus]

P.S. it just dawned on me that Peter may have been conceptualizing only two places / conditions after this life: prison for the not-yet resurrected, and heaven for the resurrected. I take this from 1st Peter 3: 22, where the resurrected Christ goes to the right hand of God in heaven in juxtaposition to the not-yet resurrected in prison (only a portion of which was disobedient), which included Himself during the three days of preaching and setting up His missionary force there prior to His resurrection.

I fail to see it. Peter is clearly referring to the spirits of those who had perished in the Flood. He is not referring to the whole of the spirit world.

There is a tendency in the LDS Church to refer to the whole of the spirit world as a "spirit prison," for which I see no scriptural justification.

[Cobalt-70]

Late in life in his King Follett sermon, Joseph Smith said he basically didn't believe in the standard Christian he||--the one with fire and brimstone. He said that he|| is a state of mind, brought about by guilt, that one experiences in the afterlife prior to accepting Jesus. Only those that commit the unpardonable sin would be in that state forever. For everyone else, all sin will eventually be forgiven, no matter how great the sin. "The spirits of our friends and every spirit in the eternal world can be ferreted out and saved." He said, "when he consents to obey the Gospel, whether alive or dead, he is saved."

So that paints a picture of a he|| that is one's own temporary guilt. It is the guilty mental state of all those who have not yet accepted the grace of Jesus (by consenting to "obey the Gospel") in the afterlife.

[Mudcat]

When it comes to the generally accepted outcome of faith in Christ, I think we spend an inadvertent bit of time dwelling on places where we have no plans of going.

[The Nehor]

When it comes to the generally accepted outcome of faith in Christ, I think we spend an inadvertent bit of time dwelling on places where we have no plans of going.

Well, I intend to visit. There are a few people whose suffering I want to snicker at.

I'm joking.........mostly.

[zerinus]

Late in life in his King Follett sermon, Joseph Smith said he basically didn't believe in the standard Christian he||--the one with fire and brimstone. He said that he|| is a state of mind, brought about by guilt, that one experiences in the afterlife prior to accepting Jesus. Only those that commit the unpardonable sin would be in that state forever. For everyone else, all sin will eventually be forgiven, no matter how great the sin. "The spirits of our friends and every spirit in the eternal world can be ferreted out and saved." He said, "when he consents to obey the Gospel, whether alive or dead, he is saved."

So that paints a picture of a he|| that is one's own temporary guilt. It is the guilty mental state of all those who have not yet accepted the grace of Jesus (by consenting to "obey the Gospel") in the afterlife.

I haven't a clue what you are talking about. The ideas you present are alien to the Mormonism I know anything about.