The Shortened Days Of The End Times

[jo1952]

I had asked this question in another thread where it has become buried. Since the thread was discussing evolution, I framed my question within the realm of evolution. However, my take on the shortened days, and the method I used to interpret what that will look like, is one I would like to get some feedback on. THEN, I would additionally like to see some responses on how those who believe in evolution would apply their belief to how the shortening of days may be accomplished.

Here, in entirety, was my original post:

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Is evolution going to take care of shortening the days in the end times?

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Revelation 8:12

And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

I take this as meaning that instead of 24 hours in a day, the days will be shortened to 16 hours. Thus, a third of the night and a third of the day as we now reckon it will be taken away.

So, will evolution cause this to happen? Or will an intervention of God need to take place? Or, perhaps, is this just a myth about what will happen in the future?

**********************

Thank you, and best regards,

jo

[ERayR]

I had asked this question in another thread where it has become buried. Since the thread was discussing evolution, I framed my question within the realm of evolution. However, my take on the shortened days, and the method I used to interpret what that will look like, is one I would like to get some feedback on. THEN, I would additionally like to see some responses on how those who believe in evolution would apply their belief to how the shortening of days may be accomplished.

Here, in entirety, was my original post:

**********************

Is evolution going to take care of shortening the days in the end times?

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Revelation 8:12

And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

I take this as meaning that instead of 24 hours in a day, the days will be shortened to 16 hours. Thus, a third of the night and a third of the day as we now reckon it will be taken away.

So, will evolution cause this to happen? Or will an intervention of God need to take place? Or, perhaps, is this just a myth about what will happen in the future?

**********************

Thank you, and best regards,

jo

I do not think this means that the days will be shorter but that the time period itself will be shortened. (not very many years)

[frankenstein]

I do not think this means that the days will be shorter but that the time period itself will be shortened. (not very many years)

I agree. If the persecution lasted too long "the elect" might waiver. So I see it as the period of persecution will be shortened.

[etana]

I agree. If the persecution lasted too long "the elect" might waiver. So I see it as the period of persecution will be shortened.

Yes. and if you look all of the periods given in the Revelation of John are half of 7 (3.5 years) e.g. time (1), times(2) and half a time (.5). or a thousand, two hundred and three score days or 40 and 2 months.

[The Nehor]

**********************

Is evolution going to take care of shortening the days in the end times?

Matthew 24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Revelation 8:12

And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

I take this as meaning that instead of 24 hours in a day, the days will be shortened to 16 hours. Thus, a third of the night and a third of the day as we now reckon it will be taken away.

So, will evolution cause this to happen? Or will an intervention of God need to take place? Or, perhaps, is this just a myth about what will happen in the future?

**********************

I'm confused. How would evolution shorten the standard day? The only way I can think of this happening would be to speed up the planet's rotation.

Or maybe everyone becomes physically and mentally slower and can only get 2/3 as much done?

[thesometimesaint]

Evolution is not related to the theological "Shortening of Days".

[volgadon]

Why would a shorter day matter? Carnage can be carried out in the nighttime too.

[Nathair/|\]

Why would a shorter day matter? Carnage can be carried out in the nighttime too.

True.

[Franktalk]

The term evolution is used for many processes in science.

http://www.durangobill.com/PaleoriversPart1.html

Paper titled -

Evolution of the Colorado River and its Tributaries

If the earth does speed up its rotation could there be a natural cause? A valid question.

[Calm]

Anything that caused it to speed up that much would probably rip the earth apart.

The 8.9 earthquake increased the earth's speed by 1.8 millioneths of a second. Think of the force that would be required to shorten it by 8 hours (8 hrs x 60 min/hr x 60 sec/min=28,800 secs. Even if one spreads this out over hundreds of years, that's still a huge amount of very nasty earthquake level events.

http://www.fastcompa...ths-of-a-second

Then there is the issue that there are forces that have a slowing effect on the earth that would have to be 'canceled out' adding.

http://www.nasa.gov/...10rotation.html

It makes much more sense to think of "shortened" as a shorter time period of troubles, etc. if one is looking for a natural cause.

And then there is the biological stress that would occur with our bodies trying to adjust to a shorter diurnal cycle, especially since most peoples' cycles are a little longer than 24 hours already (don't ask me why).

And I don't see how having a shorter day would have any other effect than making life more difficult and 'less flesh' being saved, while shortening the overall amount of turmoil and trouble the saints or others have to go through would.

If the reasoning is that God has established a set number of days that must take place prior and shortening the length of a day is the only way he will allow overall time to be lessened, I just don't see God as being that rigid in the one respect and that flexible in the other. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

Edited September 25, 2011 by calmoriah

[erichard]

...

**********************

Is evolution going to take care of shortening the days in the end times?

...

**********************

...

Here are some more quotes to consider:

Doctrine and Covenants 84:97

97 And plagues shall go forth, and they shall not be taken from the earth until I have completed my work, which shall be cut short in righteousness—

Doctrine and Covenants 52:11

11 For thus saith the Lord, I will cut my work short in righteousness, for the days come that I will send forth judgment unto victory.

Doctrine and Covenants 109:59

59 We ask thee to appoint unto Zion other stakes besides this one which thou hast appointed, that the gathering of thy people may roll on in great power and majesty, that thy work may be cut short in righteousness.

I would never think God would mess with time itself to cut things short, but I guess that is one idea.

Richard

[changed]

our lives will be shorter because of too many brownies...

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/mar2005/nia-16.htm

"The U.S. could be facing its first sustained drop in life expectancy in the modern era, the researchers say, but this decline is not inevitable if Americans — particularly younger ones — trim their waistlines or if other improvements outweigh the impact of obesity. The new report in the March 17, 2005 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine appears little more than a year after the DHHS unveiled a new national education campaign and research strategy to combat obesity and excessive weight."

[Franktalk]

A speeding up of the Earth on its axis is not a big deal to God. He has already stopped the rotation in days gone by. He has also backed up the rotation as well. All of the laws of physics that we are bound are not a limit to God.

Jos 10:12 Then spoke Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

Jos 10:14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

2Ki 20:9 And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?

2Ki 20:10 And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees.

2Ki 20:11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.

We must not consider the laws of physics valid during a supernatural event. If God commanded the entire universe to reorder itself it would do so. I have performed some calculations on this and have found that if the radius of the Earth were to shrink approx 800 miles but keep the angular momentum the same the Earth would speed up so a day would be 16 hours long.

[Calm]

But for what purpose would shortening the length of a day work that cutting the total number of days would not work better?

[Franktalk]

But for what purpose would shortening the length of a day work that cutting the total number of days would not work better?

We already know that a prophetic year is 360 days not 365. I suspect that when the Earth was made it had a 360 day year. And God seems to describe things in days so a shortening of the time means to shorten the days. Why God would do so I can't say. But Jesus did say those days would be shortened to prevent all life from death.

From my time line for the Tribulation period the days are shortened 5 months before the mystery of God ends. So does it take five months to speed up or is it quick. I sure don't know. But if the Earth does speed up it may appear as a natural event. Maybe a close fly by of a large object? Who knows?

[jo1952]

But for what purpose would shortening the length of a day work that cutting the total number of days would not work better?

It would be for God's purposes. Since He is the one who revealed the following to John the Beloved, I can only review the words and try to figure out what their application looks like:

Revelation 8:12

And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

It sure looks to me like a third of the 24 hours in a day will be shortened to only 16. Here's another way to look at those words:

One-third of daylight will be gone; one-third of the darkness will also be gone; i.e., 2/3 of 24 = 16. IOW, the one-third of light in the day cannot be added to the length of the night since one-third of the darkness will also be gone. So the third of the light CANNOT increase the length of the darkness BECAUSE the darkness is also being reduced (NOT increased); and vice versa.

I am not the one who wrote the Revelation; but I can read the words that are written in it. This is how I see it. I have not seen anyone provide an interpretation of the actual words being used in that verse; thou I have seen an opinion on how it might be accomplished.

Is anyone able to come up with a different interpretation of the actual words used by using the words that are there??

Thanks,

jo

Edited September 28, 2011 by jo1952

[jo1952]

Here are some more quotes to consider:

Doctrine and Covenants 84:97

97 And plagues shall go forth, and they shall not be taken from the earth until I have completed my work, which shall be cut short in righteousness—

Doctrine and Covenants 52:11

11 For thus saith the Lord, I will cut my work short in righteousness, for the days come that I will send forth judgment unto victory.

Doctrine and Covenants 109:59

59 We ask thee to appoint unto Zion other stakes besides this one which thou hast appointed, that the gathering of thy people may roll on in great power and majesty, that thy work may be cut short in righteousness.

I would never think God would mess with time itself to cut things short, but I guess that is one idea.

Richard

Thank you, Richard.

I had always glossed over the actual words used in Revelation because I had figured, like most people do, that the number of days would be lessened. But when I started combining other scriptures with the words used in Revelation during a fairly recent in-depth study of Revelation, I began to see things differently. I began to read and re-read the words very specifically - and in applying them in this way, I found no need to change any of the other verses such as recorded in Matthew or in Daniel. Rather, the verse in Revelation merely expounded to me upon what the other verses were already explaining in that the "days would be shortened". In fact, with the way I now see the words in Revelation, they make a literal translation for the days themselves as being what get shortened - the 24 hour day is shortened to a 16 hour day; but there are still just as many "number" of days. Thus, the prophesy in Daniel remains consistent with how many days are in a week.

I would also offer that in the other verses which you have referenced, it is the "work" which will be cut short; not the "week".

Regards,

jo

[Avatar4321]

I've always understood it to mean that this Dispensation will not continue as others have had and instead the Lord will appear and wrap things up so to speak.

Not sure what evolution has to do with anything.

[jo1952]

I've always understood it to mean that this Dispensation will not continue as others have had and instead the Lord will appear and wrap things up so to speak.

That is why I have provided several passages in scripture which give us information of the end times. Richard has also addied additional scriptures. So there is plenty for us to study so that we can learn and get an idea of what to expect.

Not sure what evolution has to do with anything.

As I mentioned in my OP, this question originally came up while we were discussing evolution. To help give you some background, here are two key posts in that thread which should help you understand. This is in follow up to Shalamabobbi's insistence that the law of evolution is God's law; where I do not. Inasmuch as he has used his interpretation of studies of the flood to determine it was local, I am challenging this perspective because of the problems I feel it creates. The point is this; since he feels this law is unchanging, and he used this law to determine that something recorded in the Bible is misrecorded, he has found it necessary to re-write the events and attitudes about the flood. My stance is that, for this law to be applied consistently, it seems that the same law would need to be applied also to present events currently taking place, as well as future events which have been recorded but have not yet taken place. Thus remaining consistent since he has already used this unchanging law in re-writing what happened in the past.

So, I am looking for speculations on how the law of evolution could somehow assist in the accomplishment of current and future events BECAUSE he used the same law to re-write an already historical event. IOW, if this law is NOT consistently applicable to earth's time line of mortality, then I do not see how anyone can justify using it for the past to change scripture; and fail to continue to use it to adjust how we will interpret either present or future events. Here are the two posts in question which further deliberate the issue:

http://www.mormondia...__p__1209048948

http://www.mormondia...__p__1209049578

Regards,

jo

[The Nehor]

As I mentioned in my OP, this question originally came up while we were discussing evolution. To help give you some background, here are two key posts in that thread which should help you understand. This is in follow up to Shalamabobbi's insistence that the law of evolution is God's law; where I do not. Inasmuch as he has used his interpretation of studies of the flood to determine it was local, I am challenging this perspective because of the problems I feel it creates. The point is this; since he feels this law is unchanging, and he used this law to determine that something recorded in the Bible is misrecorded, he has found it necessary to re-write the events and attitudes about the flood. My stance is that, for this law to be applied consistently, it seems that the same law would need to be applied also to present events currently taking place, as well as future events which have been recorded but have not yet taken place. Thus remaining consistent since he has already used this unchanging law in re-writing what happened in the past.

So, I am looking for speculations on how the law of evolution could somehow assist in the accomplishment of current and future events BECAUSE he used the same law to re-write an already historical event. IOW, if this law is NOT consistently applicable to earth's time line of mortality, then I do not see how anyone can justify using it for the past to change scripture; and fail to continue to use it to adjust how we will interpret either present or future events. Here are the two posts in question which further deliberate the issue:

I don't think your position is tenable. Because God used one process in the past it does not mean he is required to use it in the future. Also evolution is not something that happens quickly. It is an ongoing thing. Also it is impossible to predict which way evolution will lead in any case. Asking someone to extrapolate how life will evolve would require a lot of guesswork. Of course God might use evolution in some way (my hope is that we will see sharks with lasers) but unless God were to reveal the future we will remain ignorant of how it will change things until it happens.

We can do a little more guesswork about the past because we have some evidence to work with. We can't do that with the future (short of revelation which is rarely that specific).

[LeSellers]

We already know that a prophetic year is 360 days not 365

We know this how?

Lehi

[thesometimesaint]

jo1952:

Does God follow his own rules?

[Christian Mormon]

could Revelation 8:12

mean that a third of the world is effected for just a third of the day and all night?

And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

[jo1952]

I don't think your position is tenable. Because God used one process in the past it does not mean he is required to use it in the future. Also evolution is not something that happens quickly. It is an ongoing thing. Also it is impossible to predict which way evolution will lead in any case. Asking someone to extrapolate how life will evolve would require a lot of guesswork. Of course God might use evolution in some way (my hope is that we will see sharks with lasers) but unless God were to reveal the future we will remain ignorant of how it will change things until it happens.

We can do a little more guesswork about the past because we have some evidence to work with. We can't do that with the future (short of revelation which is rarely that specific).

Hi Nehor!

You see, this is WHY I don't think the process of evolution which believers in the standard version of evolution (which includes a species to species creation of living creatures) is a valid one. Why would God want us to learn about something we will supposedly be able to use later in the eternities (thus we are supposed to try to gain as much knowledge as we can while we are still on the mortal earth), when the idea of evolution would be a temporary use. IOW, if this law cannot be used consistently throughout the physical lifespan of any particular earth, then what is its usefulness? What is the purpose of such knowledge? If it cannot be constantly used through the point an earth is eventually reborn and becomes glorified, then I think we aren't understanding properly what we are observing.

I believe that whatever laws have been created in the physical world are imitations and patterns of laws what exist naturally in the spirit. It is God's mastery of using what already exists in the spirit world which led to His creating something physical to imitate what is in the spiritual (everything physical FIRST either already existed in the spritual and/or was created in the spiritual). THEN the physical is either created as a replica of what exists spiritually, or somehow those things were "moved" out of the spiritual realm and "into" the physical realm. However, since we are taught that Christ "created" everything that was created in the physical realm, and, inasmuch as what exists in the physical mortal world is only temporary, I tend to lean toward the idea that Christ did not "move" things from the spiritual. Rather, I think He created them brand new for the physical, though they were originally created to be immortal.

Now if, OTOH, they were moved from the spiritual into the physical, SOMETHING STILL "happened" to the physical wherein they have become mortal and temporary. In either scenario, at this time, everything in the physical is being held together, and is progressing in accordance with mortal physical laws. They are thus subject to the will of the Creator. They will obey the Creator. The Creator can intervene and do what He wishes to do with them, which will inevitably come to a point where the mortal physical laws will end. It is BECAUSE they are now only temporary that this is possible. In fact, in order for them to become immortal again, they are going to have to go through a "renewal" process which will "change" how they are currently operating. So again, it seems that a so called "God's law of evolution" due to its innate necessity to be on-going beyond the time frame of its actual purpose and use, appears to cause conflict in its interpretation as far as our temporary, physical world is concerned.

Also, when I see where the pursuit by many men of science has caused them to remove God from it, I see this as removing God from His own Creation in order for His Creation to be studied. To me this is just wrong. When I see further comments like "we worship at the alter of science", this shouts "blasphemy" to me. We are NOT to worship or give glory to anyone but God. The Creation was MADE by God; but it is NOT God. As you can see, I have some serious issues about how many men will see science; as well as the interpretations he comes up with in his observations inasmuch as some of these interpretations have caused some men to re-write scripture. Thus I see that some men have first removed God from science, which has led them to worship at the alter of science, which has then led them to re-write God's scripture. Fortunately, not all scientists have removed God from science; nor do all of them cling to the generally accepted species to species version of evolution. These scientists still put God first, they do not worship at the alter of science, nor have they re-written scripture.

Boy, we could really run with your thoughts! Your idea about sharks with lasers is a wild albeit fun one; it seems to match the path of your signature lines.

Your comment HAS sparked off some more questions about the types of things Revelation tells us will happen in the Ninth chapter when the locusts arrive on the scene. I can only guess what your imagination can come up with! So, do you wonder if these locusts could be the result of some strange type of evolution; thus following what some call God's law of evolution? Or could they be something God uses as a new type of creature for the precise purpose of causing the havoc described? Or could they be a creation of man; i.e., a new type of weaponry? etc.,....interesting stuff!

Regards,

jo

[jo1952]

jo1952:

Does God follow his own rules?

I think we need to be very careful about the identification of God's rules. If you are speaking about your belief that evolution is one of God's rules, then that is your interpretation that it even IS one of His rules.

I personally believe that God some times does things which may appear to us as though He has changed a "rule". However, I believe that is because we are not seeing it properly. An example would be the Canaanite woman whose daughter Jesus made whole, even though the woman was not an Israelite (see Matthew 15:22-28); but her faith over-rode Jesus' mission to be there to serve the Israelites, and He healed her daughter.

Regards,

jo