Physical Body

[CV75]

And God can know what bodily experience is like without having a body--though in the Incarnation he has one and forever will have one.

We can suppose that He can know what bodily experience is like without having a body, but the applied truth of the matter and the testaments we have are that He has one and forever will have one.

[Jesterss]

Jesterss: How very condescending of you.

Only in reference to the initial posters comments... and only directed at his comments.. His remarks were condescending, mine were only to point out that the concept goes both ways when addressing logic.

[Rob Bowman]

Fly,

You wrote:

So if I am following you correctly, we are physical beings by design, to be a reflection of God's character and will in the physical world...

Yep, that's what I said.

If we are to be in the presence of God after death, for all eternity, that would make God part of the physical world we are a part of.

Yes, because God has incarnated himself permanently as a human being. God will dwell forever with redeemed humanity in the new heavens and new earth (Rev. 21:1-3). In the resurrection, we will not be moving in with God--he will be moving in with us!

How long after death is the resurrection, and where are we after we die? After death, we are not part of the physical world...right? We can survive without a body for whatever period of time that is...how so if we are designed to be physical? For that matter, why would we bother with a spirit at all?

I didn't say we were merely or only physical beings. We are physical beings with a spirit/soul that can exist apart from the body, though that is not "natural" for us; it is part of death, which is a result of the Fall. We will exist as spirits in an intermediate state and realm (about which we know next to nothing) until the resurrection of the dead, which will take place at the second coming of Christ (e.g., 1 Thess. 4:15-17). Having a spirit/soul is essential to what we are, which is physical creatures with the unique capacity among all biological life to have a personal relationship with God.

Why would Jesus need to continue with a physical body after His mortal life? He, being God, has no need of a physical body, if I follow correctly, the only need would have been to perform His sacrifice, after that, His body would be of no use to Him, He could go back to being a spirit only.

You're right, he doesn't need his body for himself, but he didn't take it for his own benefit. He chose to unite himself permanently to the human race in the Incarnation and was raised to immortality so that he could then share that immortality with us as we are united by faith to him. His graciousness and humility in becoming a human being is not just for the 30+ years he was a mortal on earth but extends forever and ever in the ages to come!

You infer that Jesus was required to become a physical entity to give us His righteousnous and immortality...which begs the question as to why He could not do this as a spirit.

He died as a substitutionary sacrifice for human beings, and rose from the dead to immortal human life in order to become the head of the new creation of mankind in which the redeemed will also have immortal human life. To do that, the Son had to become one of us.

Pretty awesome of him!

[3DOP]

Hi Flyonthewall.

I like your question. Assuredly, as a Mormon, you have another necessary reason besides what I propose for why God made matter. My reason is not a matter of necessity but of propriety.

You ask why God would not merely make us spirits? There are hosts upon hosts of such beings already. Love always desires to communicate itself, and so God creates. That is what God does. He made angelic spirits like Himself, and then to their delight He made something completely unlike spirit; He made matter. In the hierarchy of creation, a stone, lifeless mineral is near the bottom and yet it is amazing when you consider that it need not have been. Tto the wonderment of heaven God made material things, and then He made living things out of the material, putting the minerals together in complex combination as to make vegetative life, able to receive nourishment and reproduce, a source of delight for any who could perceive it. God makes of matter vegetative life, all of those senseless (literally no sensory perception) creatures that give the world wonderful variety and texture, beautifying the material world with wonderful sights and smells.

But this isn't all. For what garden would seem proper without some locomotive life, the animals, of so many varieties, some sleek, some strong, some graceful, some slow, but all combining to provide the material world with constant movement and voice of chatter and song. But there was no one there who could appreciate it fully. Assuredly, the angels are invested with infused knowledge to understand material creation as a delightful concept. But can they see it? Can they feel it? Can they hear it? Can they fully appreciate it? And God made man and put him in a garden as Master of the material world, a creaure of mineral and spirit, with the body and sense perception of an animal and the rational ability to learn from that sense experience, the rational part of man being a clear reflection of God's image. All the material creation reflects something of its Artist, but Man most of all.

I think your question about "why matter" is based on a man-centered point of view that recognizes necessity but fails to recognize God as Artist. What human artist wants to repeat the same exercise over and over without expanding into new areas? But God is infinitely more creative than the greatest human genius. We know God can do all things. To suggest that God did not need to make matter is certainly true from a perspective of human necessity. But to so limit God's creative energy defies reason. Do we wish that Michaelangelo should have sculpted the same statue over and over and over? Assuredly not.

It is not strictly necessary that God willed to create a rational being made out of mud, along with the mud. It is nevertheless, altogether fitting that He did so.

Thanks for your consideration Flyonthewall.

3DOP

Edited September 16, 2011 by 3DOP

[Flyonthewall]

Fly,

You wrote:

Yep, that's what I said.

Yes, because God has incarnated himself permanently as a human being. God will dwell forever with redeemed humanity in the new heavens and new earth (Rev. 21:1-3). In the resurrection, we will not be moving in with God--he will be moving in with us!

This would be Jeus Christ who has become incarnate, not the Father...right? Will the Father dwell with us or only the Son? It seems like it would only be the Son as the Father would not be part of our physical world.

I didn't say we were merely or only physical beings. We are physical beings with a spirit/soul that can exist apart from the body, though that is not "natural" for us; it is part of death, which is a result of the Fall. We will exist as spirits in an intermediate state and realm (about which we know next to nothing) until the resurrection of the dead, which will take place at the second coming of Christ (e.g., 1 Thess. 4:15-17). Having a spirit/soul is essential to what we are, which is physical creatures with the unique capacity among all biological life to have a personal relationship with God.

Okay

You're right, he doesn't need his body for himself, but he didn't take it for his own benefit. He chose to unite himself permanently to the human race in the Incarnation and was raised to immortality so that he could then share that immortality with us as we are united by faith to him. His graciousness and humility in becoming a human being is not just for the 30+ years he was a mortal on earth but extends forever and ever in the ages to come!

Again, there is the statement of a seeming requirement to unite with humanity so that He can share His immortality with us. I am not seeing how that fits. It would seem that if God wants to share something with us, He would bring us closer to Him, rather than the other way around.

Though He was mortal for around 30 years, His sacrifice, the Atonement is infinite, so His graciousness and humility would be infinite as well, without the need for Him to be physical for ever.

He died as a substitutionary sacrifice for human beings, and rose from the dead to immortal human life in order to become the head of the new creation of mankind in which the redeemed will also have immortal human life. To do that, the Son had to become one of us.

Pretty awesome of him!

That is pretty awesome.

However, more questions...

I am not seeing the "had to" in this in my understanding of non-LDS doctrines.

God as a spirit, created us perfect and innocent in the Garden of Eden, where we were immortal. Mortality came by reason of the fall.

It sounds like you are saying that if Jesus did not become a human and remain so for ever after His resurrection, we could not be immortal humans.

This was not a requirement at the creation of Adam and Eve, If Jesus discarded His body, would we not be immortal? Would our spirits cease to be?Our resurrected bodies will be immortal, is this dependent on whether or not Jesus retains His body?

God created immortal bodies once, can He not do it again without meeting certain requirements?

[Ahab]

Yes, because God has incarnated himself permanently as a human being.

I wonder if you really understand what a "human being" is.

Do you realize what we will be after the resurrection is what Adam and Eve were before they fell?

Do you realize what Jesus was after he was resurrected was what Adam and Eve were before they fell?

His atonement and resurrection was for the purpose of restoring all of us to the state Adam and Eve were before they fell, and if Jesus had been born to parents who had been restored to the same state Adam and Eve were in before they fell, Jesus would have been born in the same state he was in after he was resurrected.

Consider that for a while and then ask yourself (and God) what a "human being" is when it is restored to the same state Adam and Eve were in before they fell, albeit with a greater knowledge of good and evil.

[Flyonthewall]

Hi Flyonthewall. I like your question. Assuredly, as a Mormon, you have another necessary reason besides what I propose for why God made matter. My reason is not a matter of necessity but of propriety.

Yes, LDS have an explaination, and it is as simple as: "That is the way Father is"

You ask why God would not merely make us spirits? There are hosts upon hosts of such beings already. Love always desires to communicate itself, and so God creates. That is what God does. He made angelic spirits like Himself, and then to their delight He made something completely unlike spirit; He made matter. In the hierarchy of creation, a stone, lifeless mineral is near the bottom and yet it is amazing when you consider that it need not have been. Tto the wonderment of heaven God made material things, and then He made living things out of the material, putting the minerals together in complex combination as to make vegetative life, able to receive nourishment and reproduce, a source of delight for any who could perceive it. God makes of matter vegetative life, all of those senseless (literally no sensory perception) creatures that give the world wonderful variety and texture, beautifying the material world with wonderful sights and smells. But this isn't all. For what garden would seem proper without some locomotive life, the animals, of so many varieties, some sleek, some strong, some graceful, some slow, but all combining to provide the material world with constant movement and voice of chatter and song. But there was no one there who could appreciate it fully. Assuredly, the angels are invested with infused knowledge to understand material creation as a delightful concept. But can they see it? Can they feel it? Can they hear it? Can they fully appreciate it? And God made man and put him in a garden as Master of the material world, a creaure of mineral and spirit, with the body and sense perception of an animal and the rational ability to learn from that sense experience, the rational part of man being a clear reflection of God's image. All the material creation reflects something of its Artist, but Man most of all. I think your question about "why matter" is based on a man-centered point of view that recognizes necessity but fails to recognize God as Artist. What human artist wants to repeat the same exercise over and over without expanding into new areas? But God is infinitely more creative than the greatest human genius. We know God can do all things. To suggest that God did not need to make matter is certainly true from a perspective of human necessity. But to so limit God's creative energy defies reason. Do we wish that Michaelangelo should have sculpted the same statue over and over and over? Assuredly not. It is not strictly necessary that God willed to create a rational being made out of mud, along with the mud. It is nevertheless, altogether fitting that He did so. Thanks for your consideration Flyonthewall. 3DOP

Thanks for your reply.

So if I follow and can summarize, God created us with bodies for diversity's sake...?

Us being made physically for diversity's sake does not address the need for Jesus to have a body after His mortal death. God was a spirit before and created us immortal, what is it about Jesus' retention of a physical body that our immortality depends on?

The way you use the term "matter" brings a nother level of differences, as I believe everything is matter, there is nothing that is not matter. Spirit is matter, just a different kind of matter than what we are made of.

[Ahab]

The way you use the term "matter" brings a nother level of differences, as I believe everything is matter, there is nothing that is not matter. Spirit is matter, just a different kind of matter than what we are made of.

I think you mean everything that is "real" is matter, with a special exception for emotions.

Or do you really believe things that are not real and even emotions consist of matter in some form?

[zerinus]

You're right, he doesn't need his body for himself, but he didn't take it for his own benefit. He chose to unite himself permanently to the human race in the Incarnation and was raised to immortality so that he could then share that immortality with us as we are united by faith to him. His graciousness and humility in becoming a human being is not just for the 30+ years he was a mortal on earth but extends forever and ever in the ages to come!

He didn't "become" a "human being," but always was one; He just didn't have a physical body, like we didn't at one time. Genesis tells us that God made man in His own image. How can man be made in the image of God, without God being in the image of man? Paul knew better when he wrote:

Hebrews 2

:

|

6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him [the Father], for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing

many sons

unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11 For

both he that sanctifieth [Christ] and they who are sanctified [the saints]

are all of one

[i.e. of the same order of beings]: for which cause he is

not ashamed to call them brethren

,

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be

made like unto his brethren

, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

They were "His brethren" before He decided to "take on him the seed of Abraham". He was already the same as us before He (or us for that matter) were born into mortality.

Edited September 16, 2011 by zerinus

[Calm]

I think you mean everything that is "real" is matter, with a special exception for emotions.

Or do you really believe things that are not real and even emotions consist of matter in some form?

I suspect he is simplifying energy associated with matter and matter into one term---matter; emotions could be described as a combination of both, emotional reactions include physical reactions as well as mental.

There are those who view emotion and thought as simply an artifact of a physical reaction and thus could be described as physical.

Edited September 16, 2011 by calmoriah

[Ahab]

I suspect he is simplifying energy and matter into one term---matter; emotions could be described as a combination of both, emotional reactions include physical reactions as well as mental.

Okay, but that doesn't address whether he considers things that aren't real to consist of matter.

And, personally, I would consider emotional reactions that stem from emotions to be a "sign" of someone's emotions, rather than their actual emotions. And as we all know it is possible to not interpret the signs correctly.

[3DOP]

Hi again Flyonthewall..

St. Thos. Aquinas speaks directly to your assertion regarding the perfection of souls separated from the body. Article One, Q. 93, Obj. 1 of the Supplement to the Summa Theologica reads as follows:

It would seem that the happiness of the saints will not be greater after the judgmentthan before. For the nearer a thing approaches to the Divine likeness, the more perfectly does it participate happiness. Now the soul is more like God when separated from the body than when united to it. Therefore its happiness is greater before being reunited to the body than after.

But the Summa answers this objection to the Resurrection of the Body:

The soul united to a glorified body is more like to God than when separated therefrom, in so far as when united it has more perfectbeing. For the more perfecta thing is the more it is like to God.

The Summa teaches that man's happiness will be increased after the Resurrection because of joining of the soul to the body. That happiness will reside not merely in the soul, but also in the body. Of course there is an objection to this, as follows:

...beatitude consists in an actof the speculative intellect. Now the intellect, in its act, makes no use of a bodily organ; and consequently by being reunited to the body the soul does not become capable of more perfect understanding. Therefore the soul's happiness is not greater after than before the judgment.

In his reply we must see that a distinction is necessary between the glorified body and that which we now inhabit. St. Thomas argues in his reply that man is more perfect with a body and the speculative intellect will be enhanced through this perfection, thus increasing beatitude (happiness).

Although in the actof understanding the soul does not make use of the body, the perfectionof the body willsomewhat conduce to the perfectionof the intellectual operation in so far as through being united to a glorified body, the soul will be more perfectin its nature, and consequently more effective in its operation, and accordingly the good itself of the body will conduce instrumentally, as it were, to the operation wherein happiness consists.

The objections that St. Thomas answers in the Summa always represent the best arguments that can be presented against the Catholic doctrine. You raise excellent objections then, else I wouldn't find the answers to them in the Summa! You may access this section of Summa online at this address:

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5093.htm

Regards,

3DOP

[Flyonthewall]

I think you mean everything that is "real" is matter, with a special exception for emotions.

Or do you really believe things that are not real and even emotions consist of matter in some form?

Correct... things that are "real" are matter, things like emotions are not...that is not to say that emotions aren't real.

[3DOP]

Yes, LDS have an explaination, and it is as simple as: "That is the way Father is"

Thanks for your reply.

So if I follow and can summarize, God created us with bodies for diversity's sake...?

Us being made physically for diversity's sake does not address the need for Jesus to have a body after His mortal death. God was a spirit before and created us immortal, what is it about Jesus' retention of a physical body that our immortality depends on?

The way you use the term "matter" brings a nother level of differences, as I believe everything is matter, there is nothing that is not matter. Spirit is matter, just a different kind of matter than what we are made of.

Yes of course, I accept your reasoning from an LDS position. From an LDS position it is as simple as you say: "That is the way the Father is."

You are trying to understand us from a non-LDS position. For sake of argument you are asking why, if God is incorporeal, are there certain other consequences. If you are going to try to understand from a non-LDS perspective, as I believe you are, you cannot import LDS concepts that are contrary. You have to permit us to define matter and spirit as we understand it.

As for why Jesus would retain His body after the Resurrection, I'll think about that. Thanks again for your attempts to understand.

Edited September 16, 2011 by 3DOP

[CV75]

I think you mean everything that is "real" is matter, with a special exception for emotions.

I am one of those people that believe that emotions are at least a state of matter, if not matter that is organized by our spirits from more fundamental matter.

[Flyonthewall]

Hi again Flyonthewall..

St. Thos. Aquinas speaks directly to your assertion regarding the perfection of souls separated from the body. Article One, Q. 93, Obj. 1 of the Supplement to the Summa Theologica reads as follows:

But the Summa answers this objection to the Resurrection of the Body:

The Summa teaches that man's happiness will be increased after the Resurrection because of joining of the soul to the body. That happiness will reside not merely in the soul, but also in the body. Of course there is an objection to this, as follows:

In his reply we must see that a distinction is necessary between the glorified body and that which we now inhabit. St. Thomas argues in his reply that man is more perfect with a body and the speculative intellect will be enhanced through this perfection, thus increasing beatitude (happiness).

The objections that St. Thomas answers in the Summa always represent the best arguments that can be presented against the Catholic doctrine. You raise excellent objections then, else I wouldn't find the answers to them in the Summa! You may access this section of Summa online at this address:

http://www.newadvent.../summa/5093.htm

Regards,

3DOP

Interesting...It will take me a while to digest this as it seems like it is talking in circles...

[3DOP]

I am one of those people that believe that emotions are at least a state of matter, if not matter that is organized by our spirits from more fundamental matter.

Hi CV75

Love is an arrangement of atoms? What about justice? What about Friday? What about acceptance? What about eleven? I don't want to detract from the thread but I have always been fascinated by a belief put forth by some LDS that all realities, even apparently ideas, might be made out of matter. I am not mocking. In your opinion, are words and numbers and ideas made out of matter too?

[thesometimesaint]

Jesters:

"See, most mormons I talk to don't really have a lot of knowledge on the Bible, that doesn't mean that nobody on this forum does".

Glad that you as a critic of the Church know some much more than the faithfull do of their own religion.

How very condescending of you.

[Ahab]

I am one of those people that believe that emotions are at least a state of matter, if not matter that is organized by our spirits from more fundamental matter.

I can go along with that. I am matter and my state is sometimes sad, and sometimes happy, and sometimes frustrated, and sometimes so enthused and pumped up about something that I feel like killing a whale, or a shark, or something. And then there are times when I feel like everything should be allowed to live in whatever condition it wants to live.

[Nathair/|\]

Hi CV75

Love is an arrangement of atoms? What about justice? What about Friday? What about acceptance? What about eleven? I don't want to detract from the thread but I have always been fascinated by a belief put forth by some LDS that all realities, even apparently ideas, might be made out of matter. I am not mocking. In your opinion, are words and numbers and ideas made out of matter too?

"All right," said Susan, "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need ... fantasies to make life bearable."

No. Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meet the rising ape.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers?"

Yes. As practice. You have to start out learning to believe the little lies.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

Yes. Justice. Duty. Mercy. That sort of thing.

"They're not the same at all!"

Really? Then take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder and sieve it through the finest sieve and then show me one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. And yet you act, like there was some sort of rightness in the universe by which it may be judged:

"Yes. But people have got to believe that or what's the point?"

My point exactly.

DEATH, in Hogfather by Terry Pratchet.

[Ahab]

Hi CV75

Love is an arrangement of atoms? What about justice? What about Friday? What about acceptance? What about eleven? I don't want to detract from the thread but I have always been fascinated by a belief put forth by some LDS that all realities, even apparently ideas, might be made out of matter. I am not mocking. In your opinion, are words and numbers and ideas made out of matter too?

Good points. When I said "emotions" I perhaps should have expanded that to include concepts as well as thoughts while distinguishing thoughts/concepts/emotions about things that are real from those that aren't real, or true.

For example, some people have some thoughts about God but define a person who is God as being without form or substance.

What the heck is that supposed to mean? If a person is real, he must exist as some sort of material substance, in some kind of form, rather than not having any form or substance at all.

Sometimes I think some people are going to be surprised to find out that God actually has a form and some substance, but then I sometimes wonder how they would ever find out if they really believe God actually doesn't. It's not as if they would be able to see that God doesn't have any form or substance, as if God could somehow show them he doesn't, so they could go on believing God doesn't have any even when God is standing in front of them.

They could simply think God was revealing himself in some form with some substance for their personal benefit while still thinking God didn't really have any.

[3DOP]

Interesting...It will take me a while to digest this as it seems like it is talking in circles...

You earlier mentioned "diversity", with some skepticism, I thought. You don't approve of that either as a reason

for making matter? What creator is satisfied to make one thing, has the

potential to make more and refuses because one thing is good enough? Maybe

everything should be black and white too? Does your favorite music consist of

one note, with one instrument played at the same tempo?

Beauty requires diversity and harmony. Things different that fit together, in

ordered hierarchy are intellectually compelling, and when we recognize them with

the eye or ear or as ideas, they are lovely. Rational beings are delighted with

diversity wedded to organization and that is what all of Creation is put

together as a whole. The universe you insist that we should believe in seems

dreadfully dull in comparision to what we have. Would you not agree? Isn't that

a great reason for making multiple kinds of various things? (diversity)

If God is infinite as we believe, how can we not expect that only though a multiplicity of

variety, creation could begin to reflect the life that is in God our Creator?

Edited September 16, 2011 by 3DOP

[HeatherAnn]

The Spirit Body thread got me to wondering...If in mainstream Christianity the belief is that God is a spirit sans physical body, what would be the purpose of us having a body? We have a spirit, why would we need a physical body?

What would be the need of a resurrection? If God is perfect as a spirit, why would we need a body after death? Doesn't God want us to be like Him? Is the resurrection limiting us?

Good questions...

Some non-LDS Christians have told me that our bodies are designed to live forever... & maybe the challenge is to learn how.

Although I believe there is a time to live & die, I do think that our challenge is to LEARN... & having limits through a physical body provides a good education.

I'm starting to believe resurrection is reincarnation... To be like God (All-Knowing) & to eternally live/progress - it makes sense to experience a lot!

[Flyonthewall]

You earlier mentioned "diversity", with some skepticism, I thought. You don't approve of that either as a reason

for making matter? What creator is satisfied to make one thing, has the

potential to make more and refuses because one thing is good enough? Maybe

everything should be black and white too? Does your favorite music consist of

one note, with one instrument played at the same tempo?

Well, to be honest, I was not expecting diversity as a reason, but, there is no right or wrong answer to me, as I am asking for input.

I follow your explaination and reasoning fine. It brings to mind a Star Trek term...IDIC(Infinit Diversity in Infinit Combinations)

Beauty requires diversity and harmony. Things different that fit together, in

ordered hierarchy are intellectually compelling, and when we recognize them with

the eye or ear or as ideas, they are lovely. Rational beings are delighted with

diversity wedded to organization and that is what all of Creation is put

together as a whole. The universe you insist that we should believe in seems

dreadfully dull in comparision to what we have. Would you not agree? Isn't that

a great reason for making multiple kinds of various things? (diversity)

If God is infinite as we believe, how can we not expect that only though a multiplicity of

variety, creation could begin to reflect the life that is in God our Creator?

This may be a reason He created the physical world, but what is the reason He became part of His creation and became part of the physical world?

[CV75]

I am not mocking. In your opinion, are words and numbers and ideas made out of matter too?

Yes, from more refined matter, just as spirits are made of more refined matter, but perhaps of even more refined matter.

My current working belief is that words, numbers and ideas – anything that serves as a principle of meaning or power -- even faith, hope and charity, are fundamentally made or organized out of some kind of matter, which is why and how they can exert influence or impact other matter. That these things impact matter indicates there is a common foundation inherent in all things whether we categorize them, from our limited perspective, as immaterial or material.

These ideas come from a synthesis of D&C 88:7-13, 93 (keying in on verses 2, 9, 23-26, 29-33, 36-40) and 131:7. D&C 93:30 sums up the idea that truth (spirit, light, knowledge, intelligence) acts independently to define “existence” or that which we typically conceptualize and segregate into material and immaterial experience / reality / etc. So yes, everything is fundamentally some kind of matter.