inquiringmind Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Is Paradise only for Mormons?And do all others go to Spirit Prison until someone performs a proxy baptism for them?Also, I seem to remember Joseph saying that no man can can become an SOP except here in the flesh.Is that true?
Duncan Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Is Paradise only for Mormons?And do all others go to Spirit Prison until someone performs a proxy baptism for them?Also, I seem to remember Joseph saying that no man can can become an SOP except here in the flesh.Is that true?noyes, we are to do our ancestors workyes, no, maybedon't know and don't want to be on that list
Storm Rider Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Is Paradise only for Mormons?And do all others go to Spirit Prison until someone performs a proxy baptism for them?Also, I seem to remember Joseph saying that no man can can become an SOP except here in the flesh.Is that true?No; it is for all the pure in heartNo, there must be a change of heart; an acceptance of Christ, and repentanceSons of Perdition are those who know Jesus, not by faith, but by sure knowledge and then reject him to follow Christ. Not sure about it being strictly open for those in mortality.
zerinus Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 (edited) Is Paradise only for Mormons?I don’t like the word “spirit prison”. The book of Mormon says that in the spirit world (before the resurrection), those who have been righteous will be in a happy condition, and those who have been unrighteous will be in an unhappy condition; and you don’t have to be a Mormon to be in that happy state. This happy state is what in the Book of Mormon is called “Paradise”. So the answer to your question is No, you don’t have to be a Mormon to go to Paradise.And do all others go to Spirit Prison until someone performs a proxy baptism for them?No, see above.Also, I seem to remember Joseph saying that no man can can become an SOP except here in the flesh.Is that true?Probably so. If you haven’t crossed the red line here on earth, it is unlikely that you will do so in the hereafter. In the pre-existence, however, conditions were different, and those who rejected God became lost forever. Edited August 31, 2011 by zerinus
Messenger Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Is Paradise only for Mormons?Lots of very good people who have died are in paradise. I would say that in my opinion they are pople that follow Christ and accept his love and taking on his cause.I seem to remember Joseph saying that no man can can become an SOP except here in the flesh.A Son of Perdition is someone who knows Christ (or has a perfect knowledge of him), knows he is the Son of God, and fights against him. I don’t think they are limited to being in the flesh as the spirits that followed Satan would also be called sons of perdition but they will not receive a body. But those that chose to come here and be born could also be a son of perdition. Those that were born here, would not receive a degree of glory, but instead would live in outer darkness after death because they chose to be removed from the presence of God. I suppose they would have a body, and live forever. They would follow Satan, and Satan would use them to further his purpose through their physical form. That could make an interesting movie! LOLIt’s important to note that the actual knowledge must have been received that Jesus is the Son of God, and also the Christ and fight directly against him. Also there has been quite a bit of speculation as to whether or not there are Daughters of perdition. In 1903 another Church President, Joseph F. Smith, affirmed "that there would be no daughters of perdition". All I can say is that he has never met my ex-wife! J/K
Questing Beast Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Oh for sure, the "wicked" who have repented in "spirit prison" don't get out until their temple ordinances have been performed. So we had better stay busy giving as many people their "pass" into Paradise as quickly as possible. When we waste time with mortal things, like eating, sleeping, having sex, driving kids to and from school, reading books, surfing the Net, working at our jobs, playing at hobbies, going on vacations, and etc., we are assuring that those in "spirit prison" who have finally seen the light (i.e. will accept their temple ordinances) are remaining in miserable surroundings, UNTIL someone gets of his/her kiester here and gets to a temple and does their work for them.I have all of this on the most unimpeachable authority: my high priests group a few Sunday lessons back. The conclusion after much muddle-headed discussion was that yes, the dead in "spirit prison" remain there until their temple work is performed for them. I injected: "Don't make a liar out of Jesus", but that went right over their heads, so I shutteth up after that....
TrespassersW Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I was going to reply, but then noticed that Zerinus had already said pretty much exactly what I was going to. So, I second his reply.
The Nehor Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Is Paradise only for Mormons?No, it's also for people from other dispensations who lived the gospel.And do all others go to Spirit Prison until someone performs a proxy baptism for them?No, they might get out by paying for all their sins in full first.Also, I seem to remember Joseph saying that no man can can become an SOP except here in the flesh.Is that true?Possibly.
Rob Osborn Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) There certainly isn't a lot of truth regarding the answers to these questions. It is my opinion that just like on earth with our actual prisons being reserved for the wicked, so too is the spirit prison on the other side being reserved only for the wicked. There are myriads of people who have died who were basically good folks and I do not believe that they were sent to spirit prison just because they had no access to the gospel. We must remember that "spirit prison" is "h_ell" and only those who are wicked go there.As for those who are in spirit prison, when do they get out. It says after they have paid the penalty of their sins and then show obedience to the house of God (temple) can they come out. I would hardly think that they would have to wait around in "h_ell" until we mortals found their name and did the work. If it worked that way, then there would be some there in he_ll for quite a long time, perhaps upwards of 6,000 years- completely unjust! It is my opinion that as soon as they show obedience in the spirit world to the gospel then they can leave prison and go into paradise.As for becoming a SOP, a spirit or person can become this at any point, alive or dead. The sciptures speak of the dead who choose not to repent become sons of perdition. So, merely not accepting Christ after death is all it takes to become a son of perdition. Edited September 1, 2011 by Rob Osborn
inquiringmind Posted September 2, 2011 Author Posted September 2, 2011 Why did Joseph say "A man cannot commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body"?http://mldb.byu.edu/follett.htm
TAO Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Why did Joseph say "A man cannot commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body"?http://mldb.byu.edu/follett.htmIt means you can't get worse - you can only get 'more knowledge'. If you are to do that which cannot be forgiven, you must do it in this life, and you can only stay the same or get better in the next one. I think. At least that's how it reads. But I could be very wrong, and I don't want to stake anything on it =P.Best Wishes,TAO
Questing Beast Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Why did Joseph say "A man cannot commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body"?http://mldb.byu.edu/follett.htmI take it to mean that a person awaiting resurrection cannot be tempted without the body to be able to sin badly enough to commit the unpardonable sin, i.e. denial of God, Christ and the Holy Ghost. Those who kept their first estate and received mortal bodies are changed forever by the experience. When severed, temporarily, from their bodies, they are powerless to commit the depth of sins that they could as mortals. Once resurrected, their power to sin fully is restored. If by then they have not accepted the salvation of Christ, then many will at the last resurrection be resurrected to perdition and outer darkness "forever".I notice that some comments above have equated those who followed Satan in rebellion, with sons of perdition, i.e. having a full knowledge of the reality of God, Christ and the Holy Ghost, and denying them, even fighting against them. This would seem to be a limited class of knowledgeable sinner to some. But in the Follett address, Joseph Smith seems to be saying that many are already sons of perdition, so identified by their murderous desires, plans and actions. It is popular in the LDS religion, to view sons of perdition as only those who have had their full temple ordinances, i.e. Mormons, and then gone on to know God in the flesh, then turned against him. But the Follett discourse makes no such distinction or limitation on who are those having committed the unpardonable sin. All they had to do was want Joseph Smith killed, and that was proof enough that they had sinned against the Holy Ghost....
inquiringmind Posted September 2, 2011 Author Posted September 2, 2011 It means you can't get worse - you can only get 'more knowledge'. If you are to do that which cannot be forgiven, you must do it in this life, and you can only stay the same or get better in the next one. I think. At least that's how it reads. But I could be very wrong, and I don't want to stake anything on it =P.Best Wishes,TAOThank you.That would mean that those on the other side can't be harmed by those here (no matter how disappointed they might be.)I hope that's true.
Calm Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) Is Paradise only for Mormons? And do all others go to Spirit Prison until someone performs a proxy baptism for them?Also, I seem to remember Joseph saying that no man can can become an SOP except here in the flesh. Is that true?Since Satan and his followers of SOP, it would seem that is an incorrect understanding of what he meant.If something sounds really strange the way I've written it I have the perfect excuse of my medication telling me Ishould have been in bed over an hour a go and warning me that if I dont' stop right now there is good chance those sinister dancing smileys at the side with their torches will have found the latest sacrifice to the volcano god...****man, I was tired, took a wee break and feel asleep in the middle of writing a post, such things do not happen to me.So keeping it quick....Check out the last few chapters of your Gospel Principles manual---if you are serious about investigating I think you should get one in your hands even if you have one on your computer. Just makes it more real imo and I want to feel real and grounded when making life altering decisions. Maybe it's because I grew up without them or maybe I just find the bright light too focusing but I wonder at times if the internet can impair spiritual connections just by how it affects one physically. I like to read the GP manual before I go to bed if I am pondering a particular lesson as it helps to think about it in the quiet and peace and on rare occasions, I wake up with ideas that my mind has been chewing on while I've slept. Plus the manual will tell you what is doctrinal and what is speculation in this thread.Anyway in the section on Paradise and the Spirit Prison, it is effectively three divisions, the divisions exist through the access one has to God and to the spirit. The first is Paradise and is for those who have accept the Lord and His Gospel whether in mortality or in the next life, repented of their sins and are trying to live God's will. ; Since it is unlikely in my view that we have fully repented of all our sins at the time of death (we may not be aware of all of them for one thing), I would not be surprised if some of our time when we get there is set aside as a 'sacrament meeting' or a confessional where we--with full knowledge this time of what is involved--again partake of the covenant as we do each time we partake of the Sacrament, taking on his name as he takes on our sins, becoming pure through the ordinance so that when we are purged of sin we may associated with the people of God and God fully in that place of joy and love.The next section is the 'top' part of the Spirit Prison (the title refers to the halt of progress for those inside until they make their decisions), what I call "the Lord's Community College" where all are taught what is necessary for them to be able to have an effective learning experience of the Plan of Salvation, what it means to them, and most important what role Christ and the Atonement could play in their lives. This is where, I believe, if there have been handicaps of some sort---any sort---in our lives that have stood in the way of us making a truly 'informed' decision about accepting Christ as our Saviour, we have a chance to learn again without those impediments. This section of "Spirit Prison" (think of it as "Spirit School" if it makes it more coherent for you) is for sincere students who hadn't received understanding or opportunity to accept Christ and the Father and the Spirit into our lives and it is only a prison in the sense we can't progress further until we get this fundamental step passed whether it's a rejection or an acceptance of Christ (and such includes a determination of how much of a commitment toward him we are willing to make). We are taught here by the Spirit and the missionaries of Christ of Paradise.If we do commit, we go through the process of repentance which might be very short though very, very intense if the commitment to Christ is wholehearted...at some point here we join the righteous in paradise (as soon as we commit or after repentance, I don't know). I assume during the process of learning about repentance we experience some suffering to help bring us to a greater knowledge of the Atonement, I have no idea whether or not full suffering/punishment kicks in immediately upon arrival so Justice claims its souls or....which seems more likely to me based on Mercy....we are given a breathing space while we learn our lessons and Justice is 'used' to the extent it will help convict the individual of the blessing of the Atonement, thus the bulk of punishment is held back until one has made the decision as to how much of the Atonement he will accept (at which point they either finish any 'lessons' they must learn to refine their understanding and then move on to paradise....and maybe the finetuning of spiritual knowledge and comprehension actually takes place in Paradise as it must be the most spiritually enlightening experience we have up to that point....or the person gets demoted to the section where any punishment that is a result of his sinfulness must be 'atoned' for, but on his own without the Lord stepping in because the individual has chosen to 'go it alone').The second level of Spirit Prison is what is usually understood as H3ll as it is the closest we come to the traditional image of it as a place of everlasting burning lakes of fire for the sinful to suffer in. These are the unrepentant souls of mortality, but even they can be saved if in this place where they learn once and for all what it means not to choose to repent, the door is not closed even here after the lessons are done, but only when one's heart has locked away any possibility of accepting Christ as one's savior even though one does accept Christ as his God and Sovereign. At this time, they are the ones who must endure and pay whatever form of punishment will purge their souls of sin....which must include in my opinion some way of them taking on full responsibility in restoring what has been destroyed at least in a spiritual sense as well as enduring the pain and suffering one has caused others so that they completely understand the impact of their choices on others (perhaps the experience is akin to 'living a day in the life of....' ).They will acknowledge the justice of their fate and once they have accepted that Justice's right to punish them and endured that punishment (the punishment is limited because all sin is limited in its impact and harm save one, that being the unforgivable sin, unforgivable because the one who commits the sin refuses to have any part in the Atonement when he refuses Christ by denying him in the ultimate way, unlimited because its effects are eternal.)Not sure what actually happens at this time (and it may be a metaphorical description and not a literal one in the scriptures to help us understand what our spirits experience as we encounter God at this point in our development) if there is a time and place associated with H3ll and Spirit Prison, but I suspect the ones who have paid their own price willingly once purified will experience life along the lines of a country club or maybe even a halfway house where there is some limited form of freedom of association while those who have chosen the path of the son of perdition end up isolated from others by choice and since they have rejected the Light of Christ, whatever 'place' their soul is in, it must be a dark one. Eventually the time will come where Judgment is pronounced and they will move on to their more final destinations after a stopover in the Presence of the Lord and Father.edited to add all the stuff required to have it actually make sense, lol Edited September 2, 2011 by calmoriah
Calm Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 We must remember that "spirit prison" is "h_ell" and only those who are wicked go there.Not according to the LDS faith, see the Gospel Principles manual where it differentiates Spirit Prison (I don't like the name either) into two sections, one for those who are willing to learn and repent, the other for those who are not willing to repent.The spirits are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated (see 1 Nephi 15:28–30), but the spirits may progress as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them. The spirits in paradise can teach the spirits in prison (see D&C 138)...</h2><h2>Spirit Prison The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise. Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as h***. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ,http://lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng
Calm Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) It says after they have paid the penalty of their sins and then show obedience to the house of God (temple) can they come out.CFR both the "show obedience to the house of God" and that this phrase means their work must be done. It is a phrase that apparently does not turns up on lds.org, if so, it is likely not doctrinal.As to the 6000 years, that is assuming that time in the next life is identical to this one. And I don't really get how it can be unjust to require one to wait even a very, very long time if one has refuse to repent on one's sins, refused to sorry for them and the only reason they have "shown obedience" and paid for them is because they've had no choice. They have not accepted Christ, after all, merely acknowledged him as their Sovereign and as such he does not owe it to them to keep them entertained, merely in good health.These spirits suffer in a condition known as h***. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, “Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:16–18). http://lds.org/manua...dgment?lang=eng</h2><h2>Telestial These people did not receive the gospel or the testimony of Jesus either on earth or in the spirit world. They will suffer for their own sins in h*** until after the Millennium, when they will be resurrected.Where is there any description of obedience in that?So, merely not accepting Christ after death is all it takes to become a son of perdition. That would depend on what you mean by "not accepting Christ". It is something more than just saying 'thanks, but no thanks, I'll take my punishment'. It's rejection of Christ so completely that one denies his existence once having full access to all his Gifts and Truth.These are they who had testimonies of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord but allowed Satan to overcome them. They denied the truth and defied the power of the Lord. There is no forgiveness for them, for they denied the Holy Spirit after having received it. They will not have a kingdom of glory. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever. Edited September 2, 2011 by calmoriah
Rob Osborn Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Not according to the LDS faith, see the Gospel Principles manual where it differentiates Spirit Prison (I don't like the name either) into two sections, one for those who are willing to learn and repent, the other for those who are not willing to repent.</h2>http://lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=engSpirit prison is "he_ll". Here, this is from the "Guide to the Scriptures"- h***. See also Damnation; Death, Spiritual; Devil; Sons of PerditionLatter-day revelation speaks of h*** in at least two senses. First, it is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality. In this sense, h*** has an end. The spirits there will be taught the gospel, and sometime following their repentance they will be resurrected to a degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who will not repent, but are nevertheless not sons of perdition, will remain in h*** throughout the Millennium. After these thousand years of torment, they will be resurrected to a telestial glory (D&C 76:81–86; 88:100–101). Second, it is the permanent location of those who are not redeemed by the atonement of Jesus Christ. In this sense, h*** is permanent. It is for those who are found "filthy still" (D&C 88:35, 102). This is the place where Satan, his angels, and the sons of perdition—those who have denied the Son after the Father has revealed him—will dwell eternally (D&C 76:43–46).(Guide to the Scriptures | H h***.:Entry)The spirit world is divided into two separate places- paradise and spirit prison. The scriptures do not refer to spirit prison as anything other than he_ll.
thesometimesaint Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Rob Osborn:Toss in that we believe that Outter Darkness is the final destination for the SoP's
Maidservant Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 My personal understanding of all the doctrinal statements is that the spirit world is conducted more or less similarly to how life is conducted here . . . everyone is all together. No one gets ushered into little boxes or camps labeled with big signs that say: Spirit Prison Here, Paradise Here. One way I think of this . . . most of us wouldn't say that earth life is h*** . . . yet, I do . . . I've been in h***, and I know others are in h***. Because what is h***? It is a condition of soul--you take it with you wherever you go, if that is your experience and you are not delivered. If there is spirit prison, I understand that also to be a condition of spirit . . . maybe like blindness or misery or ignorance or anything . . . until you can become delivered by the gospel and by covenants. There may be social structures in the spirit world that allow people to actually imprison criminal spirits . . . as we have prisons here on earth too . . . but as we know, not all criminals on earth are in prison until we catch them, I suspect things happen 'naturally' there as they do here . . . if a spirit is committing crime, efforts would be made to limit them. But for most people when they die, of any religion, I think they are greeted by family and friends and if that happens, you'd think a great deal of orientation would be going on as to how to live in the spirit world and I suspect they enjoy themselves as best as can, and walk the earth for enjoyment (go see that mountain they never got to see in life), and also participate in influencing their posterity and other things in the earth for good.I also believe that certainly there are individual spirits and entire organizations of spirits, whose purpose is to desseminate lying information to those still living. Whether they do this honestly from their own ignorance, or from a desire to destroy, I don't know. But I am put in mind of people who go into trances and get information from spirits, and just on the basis of the fact that they went into the trance, the living person thinks they got some really true information because of the "miraculous" nature of it. Whereas I always imagine the spirits on the other side of this game, rolling in the dirt laughing their head off at how fun it is to mess with gullible living people.Anyway, I could go on about what I think happens in the spirit world, but the main point would be that while obviously there are some differences of living based on the lack of body (some things we might consider worse, some we might like [like ease of transportation]), I think for the most part . . . we're just people and we will live like people, live like a plural society. I would also imagine that those who have their covenants have the power to create places or spaces where they can protect themselves and enjoy themselves in light, from those others who would harm, but I can't imagine that they would only invite those who were "Mormon" to participate in that protection and enjoyment, as long as a (spirit) person was willing to do good and to love.
LeSellers Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Spirit prison is "he_ll". Spirit Prison is not the only "he11". There are three (or more?).He11 is the tomb, the grave, death.He11 is Spirit Prison, as you noted.He11 is any case where one is separated from God. This includes Outer Darkness, but is not limited thereunto. Lehi
Rob Osborn Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 CFR both the "show obedience to the house of God" and that this phrase means their work must be done. It is a phrase that apparently does not turns up on lds.org, if so, it is likely not doctrinal.58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 138:58 - 59)38 But behold, these which thine eyes are upon shall perish in the floods; and behold, I will shut them up; a prison have I prepared for them.39 And That which I have chosen hath pled before my face. Wherefore, he asuffereth for their sins; inasmuch as they will repent in the day that my Chosen shall return unto me, and until that day they shall be in torment;(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 7:38 - 39)Here it is speaking of those souls in Noah's day who did not repent and thus they perished int he floods and went to spirit prison and there they waited until Christ died in the flesh. It was at this time that Christ prepared the messengers to go into the spirit prison and teach the gospel to them. According to this scripture all the requirements for leaving spirit prison are accepting the gospel and repenting.As to the 6000 years, that is assuming that time in the next life is identical to this one. And I don't really get how it can be unjust to require one to wait even a very, very long time if one has refuse to repent on one's sins, refused to sorry for them and the only reason they have "shown obedience" and paid for them is because they've had no choice. They have not accepted Christ, after all, merely acknowledged him as their Sovereign and as such he does not owe it to them to keep them entertained, merely in good health.Showing obedience to God is showing a change of heart- becoming righteous. Accepting Christ is accepting that mighty change of heart spoken of in the scriptures. Mere aknowledgement of Christ is not accepting Christ- it gets you nowhere.http://lds.org/manua...dgment?lang=eng</h2>.Where is there any description of obedience in that?That would depend on what you mean by "not accepting Christ". It is something more than just saying 'thanks, but no thanks, I'll take my punishment'. It's rejection of Christ so completely that one denies his existence once having full access to all his Gifts and Truth.There is a disconnect in our doctrine in that we teach that a man can be saved without accepting Christ (Accepting the gospel and showing obedience to it). But that is a false doctrine. The scriptures speak rather boldly that one "must" repent and accept the gospel in order to be saved from the eternal "he_ll" after the millennium. D&C section 19 refers to this punishment (after the millennium and resurrection) of those who refuse to repent.
Calm Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Spirit prison is "he_ll". Here, this is from the "Guide to the Scriptures"-.... The scriptures do not refer to spirit prison as anything other than he_ll.I do not believe that the OP limited source of answers solely to the scriptures. The manuals provide interpretation of doctrine and scripture, perhaps you do not agree with the interpretation and have your own (as you often do IIRC), however one of the LDS teachings on the subject---that Spirit Prison contains the condition known as H3ll, but not all who dwell there suffer this condition--is present in the GP manual.H3ll is used to mean multiple things for LDS, not an unusual occurrence. Spirit Prison is H3ll, but not only the wicked go there in the sense of those who will always choose wickedness. Those who have not yet repented and been purged of their sin and thus are still in part "wicked" go there as well, but leave once repentance is complete. The truly wicked do not repent and thus must suffer for their own sins in the "condition of H3ll". When I divided Spirit Prison into two sections, the division is between those who repent and those who do not and who end up suffering in "H3ll" rather than learning in "H3ll" (the first use corresponds to "the condition of H3ll", the second to the location of H3ll, IOW the scriptural name for the Spirit Prison).Spirit Prison The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise. Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them either on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as h***. If you disagree, feel free to write the Curriculum Dept. and when they correct it to match your interpretation instead, I will be happy to agree with you.
Calm Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 My personal understanding of all the doctrinal statements is that the spirit world is conducted more or less similarly to how life is conducted here . . . everyone is all together. ....My perception for the most part as well. Applying the labels and drawing boundaries are for the ease of discussion and explanation.
zerinus Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) Rob Osborn:Toss in that we believe that Outter Darkness is the final destination for the SoP'sToss in that according to Alma 40:13, "outer darkness" = what you guys like to call "spirit prison".The expression "outer darkness" in fact occurs 6 times in the standard works; and in none of them does it refer to the "final destination for the SoP's:"Matthew 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.14 For many are called, but few are chosen.Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Alma 40:12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.D&C 101:86 Let them importune at the feet of the judge;87 And if he heed them not, let them importune at the feet of the governor;88 And if the governor heed them not, let them importune at the feet of the president;89 And if the president heed them not, then will the Lord arise and come forth out of his hiding place, and in his fury vex the nation;90 And in his hot displeasure, and in his fierce anger, in his time, will cut off those wicked, unfaithful, and unjust stewards, and appoint them their portion among hypocrites, and unbelievers;91 Even in outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth.D&C 133:71 Behold, and lo, there are none to deliver you; for ye obeyed not my voice when I called to you out of the heavens; ye believed not my servants, and when they were sent unto you ye received them not.72 Wherefore, they sealed up the testimony and bound up the law, and ye were delivered over unto darkness.73 These shall go away into outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth.D&C 138:20 But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled themselves while in the flesh, his voice was not raised;21 Neither did the rebellious who rejected the testimonies and the warnings of the ancient prophets behold his presence, nor look upon his face.22 Where these were, darkness reigned, but among the righteous there was peace;I don't know where you guys get your doctrines form; but for sure it ain't from scripture! Edited October 11, 2012 by zerinus
zerinus Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Spirit prison is "he_ll".Spirit Prison is not the only "he11". There are three (or more?).He11 is the tomb, the grave, death.He11 is Spirit Prison, as you noted.He11 is any case where one is separated from God. This includes Outer Darkness, but is not limited thereunto. LehiHeII! You guys don't even know how to spell heII.
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