Who Says The Church Doesn'T Love All Of The Attention From The Bom Musical?

[cdowis]

duplicate

[thesometimesaint]

cinepro:

I don't agree. Such transparency only gives ammunition to the critics. You spend HOW MUCH on THAT?

[Mark Beesley]

While I am aware that the church has an entire for profit side ... I contend that the seed money for each and everyone of these for profit companies can trace their beginnings to tithing funds donated by faithful members...and I'm totaly ok with that...but lets be honest about it and not claim otherwise.

Who has claimed anything that you believe to be dishonest? Please provide a reference with your answer. Thank you.

[Mark Beesley]

I completely agree..."So What" as I've stated earlier...it's their money to do what they want to...but wouldn't it be nice IF there was some accountability through open books...as with other charitable/religious/tax deductible institutions...otherwise its left for us to speculate...

Theres is plenty of accountability. What more accountability do you want above having to account to the Lord for how Church monies are spent?

[cinepro]

cinepro:

I don't agree. Such transparency only gives ammunition to the critics. You spend HOW MUCH on THAT?

Who cares what the critics think?

The Church should do what is right, and in this case, I think the right thing for a Church that claims to be led by God and is managing His money for Him should let the world know how they do it.

[thesometimesaint]

cinepro:

Personally I don't care what the critics say about me or the Chuch I belong to. We're not going to convert them anyway.

But a oft repeated/unchallenged lie does have an adverse on our missionary efforts towards the noncritics.

[Libs]

Who cares what the critics think?

The Church should do what is right, and in this case, I think the right thing for a Church that claims to be led by God and is managing His money for Him should let the world know how they do it.

I agree with this. The church takes a lot of flak for being so secretive and, although, I can understand it, somewhat, in regards to sacred things, I don't understand why there is not full disclosure of their finances. Most all churches do this, now, and I think it is the right thing to do.

[thesometimesaint]

Libs:

Why is it a "right thing to do"?

Would it be a "right thing to do" for you to publish to the world your personal finances?

[Walden]

Libs:

Why is it a "right thing to do"?

Would it be a "right thing to do" for you to publish to the world your personal finances?

If the world was "donating" 10% of their income to me and expecting me to put that money to good use, then yes, I would think that it would be reasonable to publish my finances.

Personally, it is not my money, so I don't care what the church does with it, but I do think that the speculation surrounding that money does more damage then the actual facts might do.

[cinepro]

Libs:

Why is it a "right thing to do"?

Would it be a "right thing to do" for you to publish to the world your personal finances?

If I were asking the world to send me 10% of their income on the belief that I was managing it according to divine principles and guidance, it would.

[thesometimesaint]

cinepro:

We're not asking the world to contribute anything to the Church. We are asking that members who already believe that the Church folows divine principles and guidance to give. I already have so much more invested in the church than the few bucks my tithing represents that to me it is kinda oxymoronic to say that I believe that the Church is following divine principles and guidance, and ask for proof.

[Libs]

I don't know that it needs to be considered as "asking for proof".

It is easier not to fall into sin, if you are asked for an accounting. The church may be headed by Jesus Christ, but it is run my mortal men, who are just as suseptible to sin, as any of us.

[Walden]

cinepro:

We're not asking the world to contribute anything to the Church. We are asking that members who already believe that the Church folows divine principles and guidance to give. I already have so much more invested in the church than the few bucks my tithing represents that to me it is kinda oxymoronic to say that I believe that the Church is following divine principles and guidance, and ask for proof.

Yes, my reference to "the world" was in specific resposne to the poster who asked "Would it be a "right thing to do" for you to publish to the world your personal finances?" (emphasis added by me)

And let's be straight, the church is not only asking believing members to "give"....it is making that gift a prerequisite for access to the highest orders of the church. Don't pay your tithing, can't go to the temple. Can't go to the temple, can't get sealed for eternity or take part in the ordinances that are necessary for admittance into the celestial kingdom.

Sort of like a pay to play scheme.

[Mark Beesley]

cinepro:

I don't agree. Such transparency only gives ammunition to the critics. You spend HOW MUCH on THAT?

Shortly before He was crucified, Christ was at a dinner where Lazarus, Mary, and Martha were in attendance. Mary took the opportunity to annoint the Lord's head and feet with a pound of spikenard ointment. Judas Iscariot estimated the value of the oil at 300 pieces of silver, roughly the same as a year's wage for an average Jew. Judas and others of the disciples criticized the use of the oil. Christ defended it.

Given our biblical experience of what happens when there is full disclosure to mere mortals of how consecrated funds are disposed of, I think it rather wise on the part of those who have the purse strings in the modern Church to keep their accounting of how the money is used on a need to know basis.

[LeSellers]

the church is not only asking believing members to "give"....it is making that gift a prerequisite for access to the highest orders of the church. Don't pay your tithing, can't go to the temple. Can't go to the temple, can't get sealed for eternity or take part in the ordinances that are necessary for admittance into the celestial kingdom.

Those who believe, accept the consequences of our beliefs. It's not like anyone is forcing us to pay, He's just persuading us to play.

They who do not believe are not playing anyway.

Lehi

[Mark Beesley]

Yes, my reference to "the world" was in specific resposne to the poster who asked "Would it be a "right thing to do" for you to publish to the world your personal finances?" (emphasis added by me)

And let's be straight, the church is not only asking believing members to "give"....it is making that gift a prerequisite for access to the highest orders of the church. Don't pay your tithing, can't go to the temple. Can't go to the temple, can't get sealed for eternity or take part in the ordinances that are necessary for admittance into the celestial kingdom.

Sort of like a pay to play scheme.

If payment of tithing were the only prerequisite for entering the Temple, you might have a point. But since it is only one of several prerequisites, it can hardly be used the way you want to.

[thesometimesaint]

Walden:

Incorrect. We all know of individual members who actually pay nothing in tithing, and still hold a TR and go to the Temple. The requirement is for those that have increase(income) to pay tithing. No increase no tithing.

[Deborah]

Incorrect. We all know of individual members who actually pay nothing in tithing, and still hold a TR and go to the Temple. The requirement is for those that have increase(income) to pay tithing. No increase no tithing.

Yeah, they always miss this point. For years I had a TR but didn't pay any tithing because I had no earnings myself. If my husband didn't pay tithing on his earnings he was accountable.

It is not always about the money.

[Walden]

Walden:

Incorrect. We all know of individual members who actually pay nothing in tithing, and still hold a TR and go to the Temple. The requirement is for those that have increase(income) to pay tithing. No increase no tithing.

Do not confuse the exception for the rule.

[Deborah]

Do not confuse the exception for the rule.

What does that mean? You and your ilk keep insisting that we have to pay to get to Heaven when the point was made that money isn't the issue. It is a principle of obedience. Period.

[KevinG]

Do not confuse the exception for the rule.

In this economy that is less and less of an exception and more of a rule. I was one of those members who went to the temple without paying a single penny in tithing.

Personally I'd rather be in the position to flood the church with money from my tithing.

Don't forget that all temple recommends are given on an honor basis. The Bishop never checks our bank account or asks for tax records. We declare voluntarily and freely what our status is in all the temple recommend questions. The interview is more of an opportunity for us to review our own progress and obedience to the Lord than any kind of a screening process.

"Pay for play" is patently offensive.

[thesometimesaint]

Walden:

It has never been about the money. It is about obedience. See the Widows Mite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesson_of_the_widow%27s_mite

[MorningStar]

Morningstar…Did I say something that offended you? I merely pointed out that the church is obviously enjoying all the publicity produced from the popularity of the Book of Mormon musical and is taking advantage of it by spending $1,000,000 in an advertising campaign.

To answer a few other questions directed at me:

01. Bluebell, No it does not offend me for the church to spend their money…they can do whatever they like with it…after all it is theirs, freely donated from its membership.

02. Mola Ram, CFR on the tithing use claim?…Mola Ram, can you give me another source of income that the church has that isn’t or didn’t originally come from tithing? Which is why I feel the whole claim that the down town mall is being built with non tithing dollars is somewhat disingenuous.

03. Cinepro…you left out one other statistic…since 1985 the church has donated 1.3 billion in worldwide humanitarian aid. That’s $5.08 per member per year. Impressive. I'm very comforted to know that of the tens of thousands in tithing I donated each year...that $5.08 of it went to humanitarian aid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_membership_history#LDS_Church_membership_numbers http://lds.org/church/statistics?lang=eng&query=humanitarian+aid

Morningstar, How ironic that you quote Jesus on your post...

“A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another”. ~ John 13:34

Correct me if I'm mistaken...but I'm not feeling your love...

The love was in my emoticon, my precious Craigy.

xoxoxoxoxo

Love,

MorningStar

P.S. You complete me.

[Nemesis]

Message received....

That wasn't jut for you. It was a general reminder for everyone, but thanks for acknowledging it.

Nemesis

[LeSellers]

Do not confuse the exception for the rule.

The old adage, to which you allude, "the exception proves the rule', is sadly misunderstood.

"Prove" meant, in the time when this became a cliché, "to test, to try, to show wrong". So the exception does not mean the rule is useful, it means precisely the opposite: the rule is wrong. In this case, your made-up rule, that one must pay [money] to enter the Temple, is wholly, unequivocably, irrefutably wrong. The coin with which one pays is that of obedence.

Lehi