The Book Of Mormon Musical

[mfbukowski]

So you're saying when Parker and Stone met with their co-creator Robert Lopez in 2006 and formulated the plot and started writing songs, they did so with the knowledge that 2 years hence the LDS Church would be involved an a massive political campaign about gay marriage in California?

Actually, no. The whole thing started with the Southpark episodes.

But who would fund a Southpark episode as a Broadway play which was about as politically incorrect as one could get?

The payback was the funding which came post-8, when a little-known "Utah church" got some recognition for their political clout, and the Tonys- as Lehi said.

One must understand New York. If it's west of the Hudson, it's provincial and hardly worth noticing. If it suddenly impacts something as close as Christopher Street, those yokels must be taught a lesson. How dare they challenge our values? We will challenge theirs big time.

Have an impact on a national debate and you are going to get in the cross hairs.

[KevinG]

For the most part Parker and Stone have been pretty nice to the Mormons. While lampooning our beliefs (along with every other major or minor religion in the world) they stick to the narrative that we're nice people to have around.

LDS Church Spokesperson commentary about the BOM Musical - some good points

Michael Otterson (LDS Church Public Affairs) provides some good contrasts between the reality of missionaries in Africa during the last 7 years during the time the BOM Musical was written.

Honestly this is about as much attention as this should ever get. I agree the popularity of the musical may be prompted by some backlash on Prop 8, but for the most part it seems to be well written and produced (Avenue Q, South Park...I love Sesame Street and was raised on it. That doesn't keep Avenue Q from being a guilty pleasure.) so it probably deserves artistic recognition as much as any parody musical.

[Walden]

Just look at the throngs of Mormons protesting on Broadway. Oh wait? There aren't any. Which probably bothers Parker and Stone more than anything else. When someone lampoons a group or person they usually hope to get a reaction. Gosh, golly and gee whiz aren't we Mormons boring. Heh.

I'm sure if someone sent them a link to this board, they would be able to take solace in the whining, complaining and persecution-inducing reactions that seem to be emanating from these posts.

And yes, after being the smash hit of the year on Broadway and sweeping up at the Tony's, I'm sure the creators of this musical are bothered "more than anything else" that there are not mormon's picketing their shows....tell me you are saying this in jest. Maybe if their show had low attendance or had been panned by critics, this might be true, but neither of these are the case.

[cinepro]

Honestly people, watch these clips in their entirety:

And then let's talk about how LDS beliefs and missionaries are portrayed in The Book of Mormon musical.

I agree that Parker and Stone went overboard with the vulgarity, but LDS have a noble tradition of bad music, dubious doctrines, and cheesy theatrical productions to such a degree that I would be offended if The Book of Mormon musical was any different.

[LDSToronto]

@LDSToronto:

I have been careful not to give a review of the play. That would necessitate seeing it. I have commented on the play's intent. Do you feel it's necessary to see the play in order to correctly ascertain its intent?

Yes, I do. I'm uncertain how you can ascertain the intent of a play when you have not seen it.

As for The RM and The Hometeachers, do you feel that Halestorm Entertainment's aims and intent are the same as Matt Stone and Trey Parker? If we can agree they are different, I think the difference in satire becomes apparent, or did you just want to trap me?

The RM pokes fun at Mormon culture and beliefs. So does The Hometeachers. Tell me, is the intent of the RM/HT (garner laughs by lampooning LDS cultural behaviour) different than the BOM:Musical?

H.

[LDSToronto]

What are you talking about? Some one posted a clip, and of that clip it was clearly a mockery. Apparently some one, that is so ignorant of this thread, decided to opine on how ignorant all the rest of us are. Oh the irony.

"Clearly a mockery" is your opinion. There are others who find it to be a witty commentary on religious practice.

H.

[LDSToronto]

I suppose you think people have to see porn to know it is wrong to watch?

Or are you telling us that the musical doesn't mock our religion? Apparently yours is ok with it.

LDS have a penchant for labeling anything they find mildly suggestive, "porn". For instance, I've been told that Beverly Hills 90210 is porn. Perhaps it would do a few people some good to watch some real pornography to get an idea of what porn really is.

Similarly, I find that one can go overboard when labeling something as a mockery. As I pointed out, The RM can be considered a mockery of the LDS culture, dependent on the way the term 'mockery' is defined.

H.

[KevinG]

I'm sure if someone sent them a link to this board, they would be able to take solace in the whining, complaining and persecution-inducing reactions that seem to be emanating from these posts.

And yes, after being the smash hit of the year on Broadway and sweeping up at the Tony's, I'm sure the creators of this musical are bothered "more than anything else" that there are not mormon's picketing their shows....tell me you are saying this in jest. Maybe if their show had low attendance or had been panned by critics, this might be true, but neither of these are the case.

Oh great! Another sarcasm challanged poster. I'm not feeling persecuted Pondfellow try adjusting your mind reading powers a bit.

The nugget of literal truth in my non-persecuted comments is that Mormon protests would only enhance the musicals PR efforts. The Mormons don't seem to have fallen for that.

[Mars]

Yes, I do. I'm uncertain how you can ascertain the intent of a play when you have not seen it.

I believe I can in this case through the production history of the authors. I am convinced Matt Stone and Trey Parker satire, lampoon, mock, and ridicule all religions. I've seen several episodes of South Park - after all, I did go to high school.

The RM pokes fun at Mormon culture and beliefs. So does The Hometeachers. Tell me, is the intent of the RM/HT (garner laughs by lampooning LDS cultural behaviour) different than the BOM:Musical?

You.

Fine, I'll answer your question and you don't have to answer mine. Yes, the intent is different because RM/HT is to garner laughs *with* us, rather than Matt Stone/Trey Parker garnering laughs *at* us. Not to mention the drastic difference in reach of audience. If someone is off in a corner having a good laugh on the cultural idiosyncrasies that we share that is far and away different than a primetime television show put on by people who do not share those cultural idiosyncrasies and having a good laugh about it.

[KevinG]

Honestly people, watch these clips in their entirety:

And then let's talk about how LDS beliefs and missionaries are portrayed in The Book of Mormon musical.

I agree that Parker and Stone went overboard with the vulgarity, but LDS have a noble tradition of bad music, dubious doctrines, and cheesy theatrical productions to such a degree that I would be offended if The Book of Mormon musical was any different.

LDS pop-art is a crime to humanity. On that I can agree. We have a paradox however. If we were to portray our history and doctrines acurately on screen none of us could see it because it would be rated R. (Wearing the skins of your enemies daughters - really!)

[LeSellers]

I've seen several episodes of South Park - after all, I did go to high school.

Alas, so did I! But I haven't.

Lehi

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

"Clearly a mockery" is your opinion. There are others who find it to be a witty commentary on religious practice.

H.

Ok... if that is what you want to call it. Remind me to never ask for your opinion on something.

[KevinG]

Yes, I do. I'm uncertain how you can ascertain the intent of a play when you have not seen it.

The RM pokes fun at Mormon culture and beliefs. So does The Hometeachers. Tell me, is the intent of the RM/HT (garner laughs by lampooning LDS cultural behaviour) different than the BOM:Musical?

H.

Good point- that argument leads to the kind of logic that says "I can use a racial slur because I am part of the demographic that it is aimed at." In some instances it is self lampooning that takes the sting out of criticisms. On the other hand from what I have heard the BOM Musical is much more pointed and crude than most of the soft mocking that RM and other LDS parody films partake of.

So does it boil down to self depriciating humor vs. mocking from other and/or a matter of degrees?

[cinepro]

The RM pokes fun at Mormon culture and beliefs. So does The Hometeachers. Tell me, is the intent of the RM/HT (garner laughs by lampooning LDS cultural behaviour) different than the BOM:Musical?

H.

And then there's "The Single's Ward" where the comedian's girlfriend gets all mad at him for making jokes about the Church.

[LDSToronto]

But I suppose it isn't "funny" that a bunch of people who don't know Mormonism can make so many comments about it?

Which ignorant people are making false comments about Mormonism? Are you talking about the writers of the play? Judging by reviews I've read, they seem to understand Mormonism better than some Mormons. In fact, the South Park episode about the Mormons was the first time many LDS were exposed to the truth about Joseph burying his head in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon.

Or perhaps you are speaking about the countless talks given each Sunday in LDS chapels, which are doctrinally incorrect. If so, you are right, I don't find that funny; I find it sad.

If not these, then who are you talking about?

H.

[KevinG]

"Clearly a mockery" is your opinion. There are others who find it to be a witty commentary on religious practice.

H.

Just like Terance and Philip is a witty commentary on Canadian culture.

[LDSToronto]

Fine, I'll answer your question and you don't have to answer mine. Yes, the intent is different because RM/HT is to garner laughs *with* us, rather than Matt Stone/Trey Parker garnering laughs *at* us. Not to mention the drastic difference in reach of audience. If someone is off in a corner having a good laugh on the cultural idiosyncrasies that we share that is far and away different than a primetime television show put on by people who do not share those cultural idiosyncrasies and having a good laugh about it.

So, is it OK then for an outsider (non-LDS and not practiced in the culture) to watch The RM and, not being in on the joke, laugh *at* us? Viewed without the cultural glasses, doesn't The RM share context with BOM:Musical, sans the vulgar language?

H.

[KevinG]

Which ignorant people are making false comments about Mormonism? Are you talking about the writers of the play? Judging by reviews I've read, they seem to understand Mormonism better than some Mormons. In fact, the South Park episode about the Mormons was the first time many LDS were exposed to the truth about Joseph burying his head in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon.

Or perhaps you are speaking about the countless talks given each Sunday in LDS chapels, which are doctrinally incorrect. If so, you are right, I don't find that funny; I find it sad.

If not these, then who are you talking about?

H.

I find non-doctrinal talks very sad. Fortunately the vast majority of LDS in the five states and dozens of wards I have lived in know how to separate glurge from doctrine. Your local ward may vary.

Joseph burying his head in a hat was no surprise to most who comment here or most who I know. In fact the Mormons you hang out with seem to be an out of touch and persecuted bunch from your descriptions of them. Oh but that is the key is it not. "from your descriptions of them..."

[KevinG]

So, is it OK then for an outsider (non-LDS and not practiced in the culture) to watch The RM and, not being in on the joke, laugh *at* us? Viewed without the cultural glasses, doesn't The RM share context with BOM:Musical, sans the vulgar language?

H.

Until the next edition of the RM lampoons Missionaries preaching to an AIDs victim with maggots in his anus let's talk about false equivelence.

[KevinG]

For the record the RM movie was a bit Utah-centric for this good 'ol boy. I found the South Park episodes much easier to identify with.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Just like Terance and Philip is a witty commentary on Canadian culture.

Or perhaps Doug and Bob Mckenkzie?

Take off Eh?

Doug, "Dad. Bob broke your bear!"

Bob, "No I didn't, Doug did it, eh."

Ok I know, comparing that movie is more like comparing the RM.

[KevinG]

Ah Canadians and Mormon. They are all just so.

so...

NICE!

[KevinG]

4 out of the last 5 posts. Now I'm just talking to myself.

Maybe I'm just catching up from my years of long commutes and lack of posting time.

[LDSToronto]

Just like Terance and Philip is a witty commentary on Canadian culture.

Exactly like that. I've watched South Park and I don't get offended when Terrance and Philip are on because I understand that it's satirical, it takes an aspect of Canadian culture and amplifies it.

H.

[KevinG]

So Cinepro- what about expanding on the theme of LDS pop culture as crime against humanity?

Did Saints and Soldiers redeem us any?

Is Afterglow a subtle sexual suggestion aimed at encouraging fornication among LDS youth?

Should the producers of Saturdays Warrier be excommunicated for adding false doctrine to the canon?