Pure Blood lines?

[LDS Guy 1986]

Galatians 3:19

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law's purpose was to safeguard the bloob line till the promised seed came. The promise was originally given to isaac then passed down David gave it to his son and it was passed down until Christ came who fullfilled the promise and established the throne forever.

You are implying things that are not stated in the verse you presented. Galatians 3:19 mentions nothing of bloodlines or there purity only that the law was there to govern Israel till the promised one from David's seed (nothing mentioned about pure blood) came and established his throne.

Galatians 3:19 says that the law of Moses was added because the people sinned when they rejected God's original plans for them. The Law of Moses was there to govern the nation of Israel until her king (Jesus Christ) came. Christ fulfilled the law of Moses which is why circumcision and animal sacrifice is no longer nesicarry.

Galatians does not say that the law protects a bloodlines that didn't even exist till several hundred years after Moses' time.

I don't want interpretations (especially such poor ones) of scripture. Show me scripture that says the the law of Moses was made to protect the purity of the bloodlines of David.

Such scripture does not exist, as far as I know.

[katherine the great]

Galatians 3:19

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law's purpose was to safeguard the bloob line till the promised seed came. The promise was originally given to isaac then passed down David gave it to his son and it was passed down until Christ came who fullfilled the promise and established the throne forever.

Zak--that scripture doesn't say or even imply that there would be no outside converts anywhere in the Messiah's genealogy. He had to be a descendant of the tribe of Judah. That's it. He could have been entirely Finnish except for one line that led back to Judah (who, BTW was married to a Canaanite woman) and He would have qualified.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Asenath was an Israelite. Do not dismiss the lost books of the Bible and Jewish History. Eber and his descendants ruled Egypt and this explains why Abram, Terah, and Nehor were there. God would not permit Joseph to marry outside his race. The children of Israel did not mix with the Egyptians while they were there. When Israelites took slaves they set them apart by divisions. Each Tribe camped with their own including the slaves. This is why God led away the 10 tribes to keep their blood pure and not mix with Gentile blood.

False... Asenath was a descendent of Cain's son Put as evidenced by the name of her father.

[katherine the great]

False... Asenath was a descendent of Cain's son Put as evidenced by the name of her father.

Even if Asenath was the daughter of Dina (which she wasn't), her father would have been Shechem, a Canaanite.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Even if Asenath was the daughter of Dina (which she wasn't), her father would have been Shechem, a Canaanite.

Is that the extra-Biblical stuff that was being talked about?

This is the scripture I am referring to...

Gen. 41:50

And unto Joseph were born two sons before the years of famine came, which Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On bare unto him.

[LeSellers]

False... Asenath was a descendent of Cain's son Put as evidenced by the name of her father.

Were she an adopted daughter, as many have hypothesized, her blood lineage would not be that of her adopted father.

Moreover, the leaders of Joseph's Egypt were not Cain's descendants, they were Hyksos, Shemites. Those leaders would include the Priests. So you cannot make the categorical assumption that the priest of On was of Put.

Lehi

[USU78]

False... Asenath was a descendent of Cain's son Put as evidenced by the name of her father.

Interesting. Yet both Cain and Seth had lineal descendants named Enoch.

So I guess it only works with Put's line that the existence of a name determines such things.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I will let you continue on with your theories that somehow make Joseph's wife an Israelite- because I know that admitting that Joseph may have married a descendant of Cain is nigh impossible for faithful LDS because of the implication it throws onto the teachings of Brigham Young concerning the Priesthood.

Carry on.

[katherine the great]

Is that the extra-Biblical stuff that was being talked about?

Yes. I think it was Rabbinical literature, much of which was written to explain the "gaps" in the Torah or the things that didn't make sense from a later Jewish world view. Asenath would have been one of those things.

[Duncan]

Yes. I think it was Rabbinical literature, much of which was written to explain the "gaps" in the Torah or the things that didn't make sense from a later Jewish world view. Asenath would have been one of those things.

I completely agree with you but by the beard of Zeus how do know all that?!

[brightpath]

First of all, the Canaanites were not black skinned, nor were they darker than anyone else in the Levant.

Second, did you take a look at that picture I posted of Yemenite Jews?

Here is another picture.

http://www.bustanabraham.co.il/image/users/108678/ftp/my_files/favorit/26458_(49).jpg The Jews of Peqiin. They had been living in Peqiin since at least the 2nd Temple era.

The Canaanites were of Ham's seed through hos son Canaan. Were they not the black race? Yemenite Jews are an example of a Jews mixing with Gentile blood. Katherine implies Israel was deep seeded with Canaan. If that was the case ALL of Judah would look like Yemenese or Lemba Jews.

[brightpath]

Then you have some splanin to do...

Eunice

[brightpath]

What, exactly was your point? I can't remember. Our ancestors are NEVER "washed" out of our family tree. My Cherokee ggggrandmother is still my ggggrandmother--no matter what--no matter how many generations pass. You concede that Israel intermarried with their Canaanite neighbors during certain times. Those people are part of their bloodline. What exactly is it you are objecting to? Skin color? Eye color? Height? Weight? Those are superficial things that don't mean Jack Diddly squat to our creator. He created ALL of us. He cares about our hearts and our beliefs. Canaanites were idol worshipping polytheists who were just normal, regular people but who engaged in worship that the Lord forbid the Israelites to participate in (which included child sacrifice.) You are so microfocused on ethnicity that you are completely missing the whole point of God's mandate. You are also missing the fact that even long after the time of the Judges that Israel fell into the forbidden worship numerous times. Read the prophecies. "Stop being wicked or God will scatter you!" They kept marrying their neighbors and adopting their religions and so God punished them. Even according to the most current archaeology, Israel worshipped numerous gods until the period of time when Judah returned from exile. Only from that period on were they truly monotheistic and perhaps the intermarriage (that you consider impure blood) stopped being commonplace. As to modern Jewish people being "light skinned", HELLO! Ashkenazi Jews were in Europe for two THOUSAND years. A few European convert brides along the way can easily account for that. Again, God doesn't CARE about the color of our skin, He cares about the color of our hearts. As other posters have amply shown you, modern Jewish people come in all colors, shapes and sizes. In America, most of the Jewish people we see are descendants of European Jews. Not so in other parts of the world. Try to drop your Eurocentric view of the world for five minutes and just look at the facts.

As to Ephraim. I don't really understand your persistent question. Yes, I'm from the tribe of Ephraim. I always considered myself adopted in to this tribe, although it completely possible that some literal descendant from Ephraim found his or her way to Great Britain or France during the three thousand year period that has elapsed since Ephraim's people were sent in to exile during the Assyrian empire. That is a very long time for people to be relocated, captured, sold in to slavery, be married off to people of other ethnicities (Oh the horror!) and reproduce many many millions of people.

You need to understand better. Of course your family tree isn't washed out but the blood is. Everyone is not the same as you claim. Who wrote the Bible..Israel. Who wrote the BOM.. Israel..Who did Christ visit and teach during his ministry..Israel. Who did he visit in America.. Israel. Who will be gathered... Israel. Who will build Zion, the New Jerusalem.. Israel. Get the picture. Now Israel did rebel against God over time but they did not mix all the time like you indicate. But when they did what happened? God was hot and angry with them so they stopped and in some cases they were killed. You need to read the Jewish history and scriptures other than the Bible. This may enlighten you. I would think they would know their history much better than you. Israel was wicked and God cursed them by taking away the gospel and giving it to the Gentiles. He also scattered Judah and Joseph and led the 10 tribes away. When the times of the Gentiles ends then Israel will get the gospel back, gather, and then build Zion, the New Jerusalem You are a Gentile with European descent that came over to America like Nephi predicted in the BOM. So you do admit you are adopted into Israel but according to your own logic I doubt you have any blood of Ephraim because of all the mixing that took place.

[brightpath]

False... Asenath was a descendent of Cain's son Put as evidenced by the name of her father.

True.... Read the real Jewish history other than the Bible. Eber and his relatives conquered and ruled Egypt for 5 generations. Read the Book of Abraham. Ham's seed was never to hold the Priesthood. Why would God let Joseph the greatest of all the tribes of Israel marry a Caananite, a woman from the seed of Ham(Egyptian). That would make Joseph's sons Ephraim and Manasseh half Caananite and that would keep them from holding the rights to the Priesthood. Please expand your knowledge other than the Bible. Remember we believe it to be true as far as it is translated correctly. Gentiles put together the Bible leaving out the most precious parts of the covenants of Israel according to the BOM.

[brightpath]

Were she an adopted daughter, as many have hypothesized, her blood lineage would not be that of her adopted father.

Moreover, the leaders of Joseph's Egypt were not Cain's descendants, they were Hyksos, Shemites. Those leaders would include the Priests. So you cannot make the categorical assumption that the priest of On was of Put.

Lehi

Thank you and the Hyksos is a term scientists gave to Eber and the other Hebrews that ruled Egypt and lived there.

[brightpath]

I will let you continue on with your theories that somehow make Joseph's wife an Israelite- because I know that admitting that Joseph may have married a descendant of Cain is nigh impossible for faithful LDS because of the implication it throws onto the teachings of Brigham Young concerning the Priesthood.

Carry on.

You need to read more than just the Bible. Please read Jewish history and their scriptures. Joseph's wife was a Hebrew through the Hyksos which was Eber and his relatives. You are right about one thing though if God permitted Joseph to marry a Canaanite then his sons could not hold the Priesthood.

[volgadon]

The Canaanites were of Ham's seed through hos son Canaan. Were they not the black race?

No. Even following Genesis's table of races Not all of ham were blacks. We have plenty of archaeological data showing that canaanites were not black.

Yemenite Jews are an example of a Jews mixing with Gentile blood.

No more so than Ashkenazic Jewry. The Yemenites were one of the oldest and most secluded Jewish communities. Their neighbours were, by your logic, the descendants of Abraham as much as Ruth was, and hence not "Gentile blood"©.

allow me to reiterate, the Jewish community of Peqiin in the Galilee has had a continuous presence in Peqiin from late antiquity (if not longer), until the present day. They aren't nordic.

Katherine implies Israel was deep seeded with Canaan.

She is right.

If that was the case ALL of Judah would look like Yemenese or Lemba Jews.

They share similarities, but Yemenite Jew tend to look like southern Arabians, Lembas and Falash like their respective African nieghbours, Kurdish Jews are indistinguishable from their fellow Christians, Muslims and Yazidis, Armenian Jews, Georgian Jews and Mountain Jews are just like other Caucasians, Persian Jews look Iranian, Bokharan Jews look like other Uzbeks and Tajiks, Chinese Jews are Chinese-looking, Kochins are like other Keralans and Malabarans, and North Africans are Berbers.

http://www.nrg.co.il/images//archive/300x225/1/251/421.jpg Falashmura.

http://www.drum.co.il/pics/database/chadash/50_pic3.bmp Kurdish Jews.

http://www.masa.co.il/MASA/_fck_uploads/Image/masaacher/105%20new/105_p61.jpg a Morrocan Jew.

http://www.piyut.org.il/Files/RFile/588.jpg Persian Jews.

http://kavkaz.org.il/images/kavkazimages/kavkaz2.jpg Mountain Jews.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Member_of_the_Jewish_Zhao_clan%2C_Kaifeng%2C_Henan.JPG a Chinese Jewish woman.

http://www.or-shalom.org.il/files/luv/Beit_Din1.jpg Libyan Jews.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Jewish_Children_with_their_Teacher_in_Samarkand.jpg Bukharan Jews.

[brightpath]

No. Even following Genesis's table of races Not all of ham were blacks. We have plenty of archaeological data showing that canaanites were not black.

No more so than Ashkenazic Jewry. The Yemenites were one of the oldest and most secluded Jewish communities. Their neighbours were, by your logic, the descendants of Abraham as much as Ruth was, and hence not "Gentile blood"©.

allow me to reiterate, the Jewish community of Peqiin in the Galilee has had a continuous presence in Peqiin from late antiquity (if not longer), until the present day. They aren't nordic.

She is right.

They share similarities, but Yemenite Jew tend to look like southern Arabians, Lembas and Falash like their respective African nieghbours, Kurdish Jews are indistinguishable from their fellow Christians, Muslims and Yazidis, Armenian Jews, Georgian Jews and Mountain Jews are just like other Caucasians, Persian Jews look Iranian, Bokharan Jews look like other Uzbeks and Tajiks, Chinese Jews are Chinese-looking, Kochins are like other Keralans and Malabarans, and North Africans are Berbers.

http://www.nrg.co.il/images//archive/300x225/1/251/421.jpg Falashmura.

http://www.drum.co.il/pics/database/chadash/50_pic3.bmp Kurdish Jews.

http://www.masa.co.il/MASA/_fck_uploads/Image/masaacher/105%20new/105_p61.jpg a Morrocan Jew.

http://www.piyut.org.il/Files/RFile/588.jpg Persian Jews.

http://kavkaz.org.il/images/kavkazimages/kavkaz2.jpg Mountain Jews.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Member_of_the_Jewish_Zhao_clan%2C_Kaifeng%2C_Henan.JPG a Chinese Jewish woman.

http://www.or-shalom.org.il/files/luv/Beit_Din1.jpg Libyan Jews.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Jewish_Children_with_their_Teacher_in_Samarkand.jpg Bukharan Jews.

Yes and this is all examples of Judah mixing with Gentiles. So whats your point. I can also point out many Jews that are pure and white like Jesus was. I have met many Jews from all over the country that have kept their white skin by not mixing with Gentiles blood. look at the Lamanites of this country. Many of them have married Gentiles as well and many have not. The Seminole tribe of Florida took in the black slaves that ran away and some of them look like Afro-Americans. Like I told Katherine, I don't deny mixing has taken place but there are pure bloods too that exists. She claims everyone is mixed.

[katherine the great]

Yes and this is all examples of Judah mixing with Gentiles. So whats your point. I can also point out many Jews that are pure and white like Jesus was. I have met many Jews from all over the country that have kept their white skin by not mixing with Gentiles blood. look at the Lamanites of this country. Many of them have married Gentiles as well and many have not. The Seminole tribe of Florida took in the black slaves that ran away and some of them look like Afro-Americans. Like I told Katherine, I don't deny mixing has taken place but there are pure bloods too that exists. She claims everyone is mixed.

Ugh. I will leave you to your white supremacy, racist views as it is useless to try to reason with you. You don't want to know that truth. You only want to believe that white people are better than dark people. I think you will be extremely surprised when you get to the afterlife and learn that Jesus was, indeed a brown skinned man in this life, and you know what? It doesn't MATTER. God does not care about the color of our skin. It is a non issue.

[volgadon]

Yes and this is all examples of Judah mixing with Gentiles. So whats your point. I can also point out many Jews that are pure and white like Jesus was. I have met many Jews from all over the country that have kept their white skin by not mixing with Gentiles blood. look at the Lamanites of this country. Many of them have married Gentiles as well and many have not. The Seminole tribe of Florida took in the black slaves that ran away and some of them look like Afro-Americans. Like I told Katherine, I don't deny mixing has taken place but there are pure bloods too that exists. She claims everyone is mixed.

And those Jews come from German and Slavic lands. That is why they are pasty and blond. The exact thing happened there as happened in Yemen, or Kochin. Jews tend to look like their neighbours. They intermarried in the past. Also, history being what it is, rapes occured as well.

The point is fair skinned and fair haired Jews HAVE mixed with their gentile neighbours.

Besides, you have yet to address the picture of the Jews of Peqiin in the GALILEE. No nordic types there.

[daz2]

I know that admitting that Joseph may have married a descendant of Cain is nigh impossible for faithful LDS because of the implication it throws onto the teachings of Brigham Young concerning the Priesthood.

Brigham was flatly wrong. The Church no longer teaches in correlated materials that black Africans are descendants of Ham and Cain, nor does it teach in correlated materials that priesthood was withheld from all descendants of Cain from his time until 1978. The Church has not disavowed those previous teachings either.

Thus, those members who wish to continue to believe in the curse of Cain and Ham and the "one drop" theory of Brigham Young are free to do so. But those of us who believe that those teachings were folklore drawn from the 1800s in America (as part of the justification for black slavery) are also free to do so.

Certainly, as a mathematical matter, the one drop theory of Brigham is an impossibility. The odds of there being a single person on earth in Brigham's time who did not have a black African ancestor are infinitismally small. The odds of there being a significant number (more than a handful) of such persons are zero.

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Matthew 3:9

If it is important for someone to believe the impossible and to believe that Jesus looked like a northern European and had a "pure bloodline" (whatever that means)--well you are free to believe what you want. But it is not Church doctrine.

[Calm]

The only genetic measure known to be specifically related to Jews is the Cohen gene. This gene is among the Lemba.

A genetic study in 1996 suggested that more than 50% of the Lemba Y chromosomes are Semitic in origin;^[17] a subsequent study in 2000 reported more specifically that a substantial number of Lemba men carry a particular haplotype of the Y chromosome known as the Cohen modal haplotype (CMH), as well as, a haplogrup of Y-DNA Haplogroup J found amongst some Jews and in other populations across the Middle East.[

http://en.wikipedia....ple#DNA_testing

It wasn't addressed before, perhaps you could do so now. How does one identify someone of "pure blood line" and differentiate them from someone who is not? Is there a scientific way? If not, why not if it is about the actual elements of the blood?

[LDS Guy 1986]

Yes and this is all examples of Judah mixing with Gentiles. So whats your point. I can also point out many Jews that are pure and white like Jesus was. I have met many Jews from all over the country that have kept their white skin by not mixing with Gentiles blood. look at the Lamanites of this country. Many of them have married Gentiles as well and many have not. The Seminole tribe of Florida took in the black slaves that ran away and some of them look like Afro-Americans. Like I told Katherine, I don't deny mixing has taken place but there are pure bloods too that exists. She claims everyone is mixed.

The only way to have "pure blood" is through inbreeding, the Mayans did this because they believed there king was a God and his blood could not be tainted by mortal blood.

This is done with many dog breeds to keep the breed "pure", they will mates a female with her grandfather or father to keep the traits they want present and keep unwanted traits out.

Inbreeding though is destructive and causes massive amounts of health issues over time, look at how many health issues pedigree dogs have and how short there life span is.

The Bible specifically forbids inbreeding in the Book of Exodus, most likely because God knows that long term inbreeding is very destructive and causes lots of health and genetic problems.

Without inbreeding there is no way to keep a bloodline "pure", there was no pure bloodline of the Bible, God cares nothing for bloodline, race, or nationality, he is not a respecter of man, we are all equal in his eyes.

Look at Moses he took an Ethiopian woman as his second wife (see Numbers 12:1), if the bloodline was suppose to be pure and whites only, why is the Prophet of God taking a non white wife and not being rebuked by God?

[volgadon]

I was at a fireside last night given by Elder Ballard. He spoke on Joseph Smith's ancestry and used the term believing blood a lot. HOWEVER the way he used it was not brightpath's, but another way of saying the heritage and legacy of faith in the family. A tapestry of faith, to use another phrase of Ballard's.

[brightpath]

Ugh. I will leave you to your white supremacy, racist views as it is useless to try to reason with you. You don't want to know that truth. You only want to believe that white people are better than dark people. I think you will be extremely surprised when you get to the afterlife and learn that Jesus was, indeed a brown skinned man in this life, and you know what? It doesn't MATTER. God does not care about the color of our skin. It is a non issue.

To your surprise I am not white. My name should clue you in! You are the first one that claims Jesus was brown. Wow, then he was my color. Israel is the Chosen race whether you believe it or not. Yes, We are all God's children and he loves us but one race was chosen above all, Israel. Who had the Gospel from Noah all the way until the apostasy? Israel. By Israel's rebellion it gave way to the Gentiles to receive the gospel. The Gentiles have the gospel right now and when the times of the Gentiles ends then the gospel will go back to Israel. Zion is not established as you claim. Please read 3 Nephi 21. Christ gives us the signs of the gathering. We are only in the first phase right now. The first sign is already happening according to Christ. The Lamanites are receiving the BOM from the Gentiles and are learning who they really are. The next sign has happened yet. So we are only in the beginning phase. Israel is not gathering right now. As far as mixing goes, yes there is a lot of mixing that has taekn place at least I admit that. You cannot admit that someone can be of a pure bloodline. Israel is God's chosen people and the Gentiles that believe and endure to the end will be adopted into Israel.