Why is the Manual of Instructions not public?

[ERayR]

Better yet, let's automate the Bishop.

You go online with your password and fill in some forms. The program automatically gives you the proper advice, authorizes a recommend for you, prints you a food order, or disfellowships you if you answer incorrectly. If you have really messed up, it's excommunication for you! Quick, clean, and without the false mercy you probably don't deserve anyway.

Perfect fairness for everyone! Equality and uniform enforcement of every possible commandment! And everyone will know every guideline, and know exactly what to do in case of an abortion due to incest! What a great idea!

That's the greatest idea since sliced bread!!

What do we need all this middle management for in the first place?

In fact, who needs a prophet? Can you imagine how much tithing money he wastes flying around dedicating temples? All of that could be given to the poor!

Great Idea and we could include computerized Talks for Sacrament Meeting so nobody would get bored and connect the computer to the law enforcement computers, that way we could weed out the illegal imigrants and trafic violators.

Gee I can think of all kinds of things to add into this.

[ERayR]

I don't believe that I suggested that it was a "a book of things that are strongly discouraged", only that it has been said (by other posters) that there is information therein about actions that are strongly discouraged.

Then why is it I find this in your very next post?

Is it the case that actions that are strongly discouraged are "constantly being updated, changed, revised, expanded"?

If I want to strongly discourage something I would try to think of a reliable mechanism to convey to the members what that something is. Simply reading a letter over the pulpit might not do it.

It's probably a good thing your not in charge then.

[ERayR]

Don't you think people are capable of understanding the manual is not an absolute unchanging thing... even when the same handbook says it several times?

Judging from this thread I have my doubts about at least one.

[mfbukowski]

You can buy anything in this world with money.

You can buy anything in this world with money.

Gosh- I wonder why we both had the same reaction??

[mfbukowski]

I find it comparable to not publishing "Preach My Gospel" just because people would realize some things are not being done as the GAs suggested in that manual.

That is exactly the problem. Guidelines are guidelines. Things SHOULD NOT be done "as suggested" unless the spirit confirms it.

Bishops and other leaders are to be led by the spirit regardless of what the manual says.

[Malc]

It's probably a good thing your not in charge then.

It probably is.

If we put aside the procedural stuff for the moment, what exactly is the problem with wanting people to have easy access to the list of things that they are supposed to be strongly discouraged from doing?

How strongly do you think you can discourage someone from doing something if they have no easy way of knowing what it is that they are not supposed to do?

[mfbukowski]

Don't you think people are capable of understanding the manual is not an absolute unchanging thing... even when the same handbook says it several times?

It seems you yourself don't understand this- see above.

[mfbukowski]

Great Idea and we could include computerized Talks for Sacrament Meeting so nobody would get bored and connect the computer to the law enforcement computers, that way we could weed out the illegal imigrants and trafic violators.

Gee I can think of all kinds of things to add into this.

Just tie the system into Netflicks and show first run movies for Sacrament Meeting- that would get attendance up!

[Malc]

I don't believe that I suggested that it was a "a book of things that are strongly discouraged"' date=' [/b']only that it has been said (by other posters) that there is information therein about actions that are strongly discouraged.

Then why is it I find this in your very next post?

"Is it the case that actions that are strongly discouraged are "constantly being updated' date=' changed, revised, expanded"?.[/quote']

Perhaps because I believe that there is a difference between the CHI being "a book of things that are strongly discouraged" and there being information therein about actions that are strongly discouraged. The first statement implies that the content of the book is "things that are strongly discouraged" while the second was referring to the "actions that are strongly discouraged" being part of the content (perhaps even a very small part).

[elguanteloko]

That is exactly the problem. Guidelines are guidelines. Things SHOULD NOT be done "as suggested" unless the spirit confirms it.

Bishops and other leaders are to be led by the spirit regardless of what the manual says.

I agree... so?

Don't you think people are capable of understanding the manual is not an absolute unchanging thing... even when the same handbook says it several times?

[Malc]

Great Idea and we could include computerized Talks for Sacrament Meeting so nobody would get bored and connect the computer to the law enforcement computers, that way we could weed out the illegal imigrants and trafic violators.

Gee I can think of all kinds of things to add into this.

Perhaps we could automate the members too! Then the automated members would pay full attention to the computerised SM talks, extract every possible nugget of useful and uplifting information from them, and maybe even sing the hymns in tune.

You're right - there is probably no end to what could be added in. I really think that mfbukowski is onto something here.

I remember that the missionaries in Scotland, many years ago, used to remark that church would be perfect if they could just get rid of all of us fallible members (of course, they didn't include themselves in that).

Edited to fix typo.

[elguanteloko]

elguanteloko:

Heck, we tell people that about the Scriptures all the time, and they still don't believe us.

Man, Joseph Smith had it really hard with real enemies against his movement in his days and he published some great stuff regardless. We don't even have 1/8 of the dangers he faced... and we don't dare to make the HOI available to everybody? That certainly does not look good.

[ERayR]

Man, Joseph Smith had it really hard with real enemies against his movement in his days and he published some great stuff regardless. We don't even have 1/8 of the dangers he faced... and we don't dare to make the HOI available to everybody? That certainly does not look good.

If you are this desperate to read the CHI you really ought to get some professional help and get a life. You are really starting to sound like a spoiled kid in a store I Want.. I want...

[elguanteloko]

If you are this desperate to read the CHI you really ought to get some professional help and get a life. You are really starting to sound like a spoiled kid in a store I Want.. I want...

I already said I can see it on the internet anytime. Plus, I NEVER said I wanted it. Please read the opening post C.A.R.E.F.U.L.L.Y.

[LeSellers]

If you are this desperate to read the CHI you really ought to get some professional help and get a life.

Or, just ask his bishop the questions he has.

Ours, in California, used to have an annual meeting where anyone could ask any question about the CHI. He (or one of his counselors) would read the appropriate section as the answer.

Lehi

[ERayR]

Or, just ask his bishop the questions he has.

Ours, in California, used to have an annual meeting where anyone could ask any question about the CHI. He (or one of his counselors) would read the appropriate section as the answer.

Lehi

Our friend elguanteloko has a void in his life and was just killing time.

[DH]

elguanteloko,

I suspect that people are getting defensive and resorting to ad hominem attacks instead of answering your question is because there is no good answer. It beats me why the Church doesn't publish the CHI!

DH

[Somebodyz]

If every member had the book, maybe some would look to it, when making decisions, instead of looking to themselves and the Lord for answers in their particular case.

elguanteloko, You used the word 'hide'. It's not 'hidden'.

Any member can see it. I've asked too and done so.

[Glenn101]

If every member had the book, maybe some would look to it, when making decisions, instead of looking to themselves and the Lord for answers in their particular case.

elguanteloko, You used the word 'hide'. It's not 'hidden'.

Any member can see it. I've asked too and done so.

The handbook is designed to help leaders, especially ones in new callings, with some advise in certain areas and to denote certain church policies. It changes periodically as circumstances and policies change. If it were made a publicly available document, there would be those who would hold onto the old as "doctrine" and resist changes in later manuals, even if the changes would just be clarifications on policies, etc.

This is probably not the only reason, but it is something very possible if not probable.

Glenn

[Malc]

If every member had the book, maybe some would look to it, when making decisions, instead of looking to themselves and the Lord for answers in their particular case.

...

Could you also say that if members had books written by GAs, maybe some would look to them, when making decisions, instead of looking to themselves and the Lord for answers in their particular case.

They might try to find out how to be their best selves, or how to stand for something, or about the miracle of forgiveness from such books rather than from the scriptures.

[Jeff K.]

I think sometimes people just look for a reason to complain.

[handys003]

I think sometimes people just look for a reason to complain.

Sometimes!? Try all the time.

[Jeff K.]

I was trying to live up to my "11" rep

[Bernard Gui]

The handbook is designed to help leaders, especially ones in new callings, with some advise in certain areas and to denote certain church policies. It changes periodically as circumstances and policies change. If it were made a publicly available document, there would be those who would hold onto the old as "doctrine" and resist changes in later manuals, even if the changes would just be clarifications on policies, etc.

This is probably not the only reason, but it is something very possible if not probable.

Glenn

Which is the point I made earlier.

If everyone had the handbook, then everyone

would have to keep it current.

Imagine the resultant chaos.

Bernard

[Malc]

Which is the point I made earlier.

If everyone had the handbook, then everyone

would have to keep it current.

Imagine the resultant chaos.

Bernard

See post number 106 - shouldn't be too difficult to keep a list of "strongly discouraged" actions up to date - put changes in the weekly bulletin, on the notice board, in the church magazines; include it in the HT/VT message.

Someone somewhere must have solved the "problem" of keeping a short list of important items up to date by a method better than maintaining it in a document whose very existence may be unknown to people who may be affected by it.