Why is the Manual of Instructions not public?

[Glenn101]

See post number 106 - shouldn't be too difficult to keep a list of "strongly discouraged" actions up to date - put changes in the weekly bulletin, on the notice board, in the church magazines; include it in the HT/VT message.

Someone somewhere must have solved the "problem" of keeping a short list of important items up to date by a method better than maintaining it in a document whose very existence may be unknown to people who may be affected by it.

The current method seems to be working very well. But you may want to send your suggestions to the First Presidency. There is no one on this board (that I know of) with the authority and stewardship to make the changes you feel are important, necessary, or at least desirable.

Glenn

[Whiskeypete]

Actually if you google it on the internet. You will find that the CHOI has been blocked from being published on line by the Church. Several ex-Mormons tried to do such and were served with legal action. The church deems the CHOI as sacred and not viewable to the public. It has nothing to do with publication costs.

If you don't work to legally protect your copyrights, you effectively lose them. The people publishing them online didn't have the legal right to do so.

As has been stated previously, the handbook is pretty much available for anyone who has a need (or even a legitimate question) that they need answered. What the Church doesn't need is to facilitate out-of-context-fishing-expeditions. If you do the above-mentioned google search you will see that as soon as it was published, there were a number of stories and posts on disciplinary counsels and associated procedures, but few articles on how the Mormons conduct a ward council.

Yes, keeping it private does fuel conspiracy theories, but it does make it that much harder to post an out-of-context hit piece.

[Bernard Gui]

What the Church doesn't need is to facilitate out-of-context-fishing-expeditions. If you do the above-mentioned google search you will see that as soon as it was published, there were a number of stories and posts on disciplinary counsels and associated procedures, but few articles on how the Mormons conduct a ward council.

Yes, keeping it private does fuel conspiracy theories, but it does make it that much harder to post an out-of-context hit piece.

Indeed. What possible interest could people have in the make-up of the Stake activities committee or how to deal with

the membership records of people who live in rest homes? Where is the glamor in guidelines for funding multi-stake

activities or how to organize an Agent Stake Operating Committee?

Only section 10, Church Discipline, contains the deep dark secrets which some hope to expose when they get their

personal copy.

Oh yeah, and an up-to-date list of non-recommended sexual activities.

Other than that, who cares?

Bernard

[paulpatter]

That is very different from refusing to disclose instructions that affects us all and that leaders are supposed to follow.

With due respect, I think you envision a bogeyman where none exists.

You insist on repeatedly asking an unnecessary question based, apparently, on your conviction that the book is hidden. It isn't. If you have an issue with your bishop and believe that instructions affecting that issue need to be disclosed, he will open the book to you. Likewise, if you think a given church leader has violated his/her stewardship in some way, the bishop's door--and the book--is open.

What's the problem?

If there were something in the book controversial or in poor taste or discriminatory or likely to place the Church in a bad light, the Church would have a reason to keep it hidden. But those traits are not in the book; consequently, it isn't hidden; hence, your question--and this thread--is meaningless.

[elguanteloko]

With due respect, I think you envision a bogeyman where none exists.

You insist on repeatedly asking an unnecessary question based, apparently, on your conviction that the book is hidden. It isn't. If you have an issue with your bishop and believe that instructions affecting that issue need to be disclosed, he will open the book to you. Likewise, if you think a given church leader has violated his/her stewardship in some way, the bishop's door--and the book--is open.

What's the problem?

If there were something in the book controversial or in poor taste or discriminatory or likely to place the Church in a bad light, the Church would have a reason to keep it hidden. But those traits are not in the book; consequently, it isn't hidden; hence, your question--and this thread--is meaningless.

if there is nothing to hide... why not publish it for everyone that wants it?

[ERayR]

if there is nothing to hide... why not publish it for everyone that wants it?

You seem to be stuck in a rut. Do you not read or comprehend anything?

[elguanteloko]

You seem to be stuck in a rut. Do you not read or comprehend anything?

I have read all your posts and I am still waiting for something constructive and original that you have to offer regarding to the OP.... give it a try, ERayR.

[ERayR]

I have read all your posts and I am still waiting for something constructive and original that you have to offer regarding to the OP.... give it a try, ERayR.

I ask you way back why it was an obsession for you to have it distributed to all. You have failed to come up with a cogent response. Give it a try. Still waiting.

[paulpatter]

if there is nothing to hide... why not publish it for everyone that wants it?

Perhaps I'm uninfomed, but I'm not aware that there has been a groundswell of demands--a veritable outcry--that the book be made public. Similarily, I'm not aware that the policies and procedures manuals for General Motors or Apple or Sony, etc., are on back order at Barnes & Noble or Amazon. The Church has--and does--make available documents for which there is a demonstrated demand (the Joseph Smith papers, for example).

Not to fear, though. I suspect that the manual will be posted on the Internet any day now. Indeed, that may already have happened.

[elguanteloko]

I ask you way back why it was an obsession for you to have it distributed to all. You have failed to come up with a cogent response. Give it a try. Still waiting.

Do you realize this has nothing to do with the OP? I already said several times that I can get it on the internet anytime... but THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

[elguanteloko]

Perhaps I'm uninfomed, but I'm not aware that there has been a groundswell of demands--a veritable outcry--that the book be made public. Similarily, I'm not aware that the policies and procedures manuals for General Motors or Apple or Sony, etc., are on back order at Barnes & Noble or Amazon. The Church has--and does--make available documents for which there is a demonstrated demand (the Joseph Smith papers, for example).

Not to fear, though. I suspect that the manual will be posted on the Internet any day now. Indeed, that may already have happened.

Again, man, why to keep it from being published for members to buy it? I am sure they can get a small profit from it just like with any other book. Why not?

[RubyHunter]

OP,

I am a simple man, with a VERY short attention span. Your question meets my personal quota of the kind of question I am capable of answering.

HOWEVER, those who have posted replies to your question, have ALSO met my personal quota of the kinds of responses I am capable of understanding.

I am not a smart person. And I am not a very eloquent person. But, I will take a stab at this.

Why is the Manual of Instructions not open for all members to see?

I believe that the quotation above is your original post.

As per your NUMEROUS requests to refer to the OP, I am doing so.

ANSWER: The Manual of Instruction IS (If I could make "is" any bigger or more awesome, I would.) available for all members to see.

The member needs to simply speak with their local leaders.

BUT.. you are about to say "What about the other half of my OP?"

So, I'll quote that too.

(That is, the Church not releasing it)

ANSWER: The Church HAS released it. They have provided copies to those that are best able to answer the members questions.

FULL ANSWER: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints HAS released the Church Handbook of Instruction in a capacity for ALL members to see, feel, read, and touch.

Just because you think it should be on the shelf at Barnes&Nobles, The local newspaperstand, and the local 7-11 does NOT mean that they have not met every criteria of your original post.

Thank you.

oh... and by the way....

/thread

[ERayR]

Do you realize this has nothing to do with the OP? I already said several times that I can get it on the internet anytime... but THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

Then you shouldn't be shy about answering the question. Why the persistent insistence in having it published for general viewing? You have some kind of obsession with this. That and your drug problem in the other thread causes an inquiring mind to wonder.

[elguanteloko]

Then you shouldn't be shy about answering the question. Why the persistent insistence in having it published for general viewing? You have some kind of obsession with this. That and your drug problem in the other thread causes an inquiring mind to wonder.

One last time for you: I have not been asking for the Church to release it; I have just been focusing on the "why not?" question. There is no such 'obsession'.

[ERayR]

One last time for you: I have not been asking for the Church to release it; I have just been focusing on the "why not?" question. There is no such 'obsession'.

OK if you say soooooooooooo

[RubyHunter]

One last time for you: I have not been asking for the Church to release it; I have just been focusing on the "why not?" question. There is no such 'obsession'.

Please reference post # 137 for the answer to your current post.

[ERayR]

Please reference post # 137 for the answer to your current post.

wanna place a small wager.

[Bernard Gui]

One last time for you: I have not been asking for the Church to release it; I have just been focusing on the "why not?" question. There is no such 'obsession'.

---It's not cost effective to publish a book very few people will buy

---The book is accessible to all members who need information from it

---It is continually being revised by letter from the First Presidency

---By the time the book would be sold, it would be out of date and useless

---Purchasers with less than honorable motives could create confusion and misunderstanding

---Most of the material in the book would be of interest only to priesthood leaders

---There is no general demand for the book

---It is owned by the Church and the Church gets to decide who gets a copy

---There is no need for a member or non-member to own the book

You're welcome.

Bernard

[elguanteloko]

---It's not cost effective to publish a book very few people will buy

amm... how do you know how many would buy it? In my personal experience, at least, I know several who would gladly buy it... and they are more than those willing to buy other Church books.

---The book is accessible to all members who need information from it

again, this is not the question.

---It is continually being revised by letter from the First Presidency

so?

---By the time the book would be sold, it would be out of date and useless

so?

---Purchasers with less than honorable motives could create confusion and misunderstanding

so?

---Most of the material in the book would be of interest only to priesthood leaders

(see my first response in this post)

---There is no general demand for the book

same as above.

---It is owned by the Church and the Church gets to decide who gets a copy

well, of course, but this is also not the question.

---There is no need for a member or non-member to own the book

so? I want it (not really, but let's imagine) and I'll pay for it so you can get some profit from it... why not?

[ERayR]

RubyHunter, on 30 July 2010 - 09:53 PM, said:

Please reference post # 137 for the answer to your current post.

wanna place a small wager.

See I told you so see above post and the one just below.

[elguanteloko]

OP,

I am a simple man, with a VERY short attention span. Your question meets my personal quota of the kind of question I am capable of answering.

HOWEVER, those who have posted replies to your question, have ALSO met my personal quota of the kinds of responses I am capable of understanding.

I am not a smart person. And I am not a very eloquent person. But, I will take a stab at this.

I believe that the quotation above is your original post.

As per your NUMEROUS requests to refer to the OP, I am doing so.

ANSWER: The Manual of Instruction IS (If I could make "is" any bigger or more awesome, I would.) available for all members to see.

The member needs to simply speak with their local leaders.

BUT.. you are about to say "What about the other half of my OP?"

So, I'll quote that too.

ANSWER: The Church HAS released it. They have provided copies to those that are best able to answer the members questions.

FULL ANSWER: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints HAS released the Church Handbook of Instruction in a capacity for ALL members to see, feel, read, and touch.

Just because you think it should be on the shelf at Barnes&Nobles, The local newspaperstand, and the local 7-11 does NOT mean that they have not met every criteria of your original post.

Thank you.

oh... and by the way....

/thread

I answer these in post # 144

[oats]

I think a reasonable price for a commercially available copy of the handbook would be about 499$.

Along with the high price tag comes the ability for old men with nothing to do to criticize the bishopric's every action and ensure that no variance whatsoever occurs between their actions and the CHI. The proceeds will go to the local bishop in the area where the book is purchased to compensate him for his time to be wasted by the local old loon.

[mfbukowski]

I think a reasonable price for a commercially available copy of the handbook would be about 499$.

Along with the high price tag comes the ability for old men with nothing to do to criticize the bishopric's every action and ensure that no variance whatsoever occurs between their actions and the CHI. The proceeds will go to the local bishop in the area where the book is purchased to compensate him for his time to be wasted by the local old loon.

Nah,

We don't need to pay the Bishop for that- it would be a waste of money. He already does all that for free, from those who don't know he IS following the book.

Why pay him for abuse he already gets for free from more people?

[Bernard Gui]

amm... how do you know how many would buy it? In my personal experience, at least, I know several who would gladly buy it... and they are more than those willing to buy other Church books.

The financial basis of publishing a book cannot be based on your "personal experience."

You have not shown any kind of general demand for it.

again, this is not the question.

Of course it's not the question. It's the answer. There is no need for a larger printing because

the current system is sufficient.

so?

so?

so?

Constant revision makes the 2006 handbook obsolete. For this reason

it is impractical to make it available to the public. The method for making

changes is the most economical and efficient. There is no reason to

publish an obsolete book.

(see my first response in this post)

Have you ever looked at Part 1? Why should the Church be required to

satisfy a few people's curiosity about the process of calling and release

or the instructions for Missionary Coordination Meeting? It's easier just

to ask your bishop, "I've got this burning question about the chain of

authority for the Commissioner of the Church Educational System. Could

you look it up in the HBI?"

same as above.

You have not given any evidence of a public demand sufficient to necessitate

a general publication of the HBI, only your assertion that you know a few people

who would buy it. Why do they want it? Please explain.

well, of course, but this is also not the question.

Well, of course, it's not the question, it's the answer. It belongs to the

Church, published by it's leadership, and they get to decide how it is

distributed.

so? I want it (not really, but let's imagine) and I'll pay for it so you can get some profit from it... why not?

Because the Church is not in the business to sell it's leadership handbook for profit.

What evidence do you have that it could be sold for profit? Why would the Church

want a profit from it's sale? Do you have any evidence that the Church sells it's

official materials for a profit?

Bernard

[Tsuzuki]

The church could always put it online for free. Wouldn't cost them anything... oh, wait.