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Did Adam and Eve have a childhood?


Joseph Antley

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Just curious, do you believe that Adam and Eve had a childhood, or were they created as adults? For those who believe the latter, do you consider their lives of in the Garden of Eden their equivalent of a childhood?

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Adam and Eve are a metaphor for the first modern Homo sapiens.

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Just curious, do you believe that Adam and Eve had a childhood, or were they created as adults? For those who believe the latter, do you consider their lives of in the Garden of Eden their equivalent of a childhood?

I believe they passed through the physiological stages between conception (evidently something on a par but different in Eve's case) and childhood separately, with Adam being raised by his parents, and Eve being raised by her surrogate parents, to an age where they could be introduced and act independently in the garden of Eden, and that many aspects of their childhood were forgotten.

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Let us try to remember that Adam and Eve did not start the pattern of families, they continued in it just as God did not start the pattern of families but continued in it.

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Just curious, do you believe that Adam and Eve had a childhood, or were they created as adults? For those who believe the latter, do you consider their lives of in the Garden of Eden their equivalent of a childhood?

I think the most likely scenario is that each was born of homo sapiens parents, the first whose spirits were spirit children of God. The post creative Garden state seems relatively static to me so I think perhaps their childhood was outside and before the Garden. Lonely wanderers or even outcasts they might have been, being of superior intelligence compared to the others. Perhaps ministered to by angels. Likely they never knew or saw each other until the Garden.

Just a hypothesis.

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Um.... I don't think so, because for there to be "growth" I would think that would have to imply death also in the mix???

I think what likely happened is that God Himself with who ever was with Him (the "Us" in the scripture), created/organized Adam and Eve "unique" for the placement of the spirits of Adam & Eve, similar to how they can control/interfere with other things such as the elements/nature when it suits their Will, or Law requires.

I think mankind reached a certain point, and God said it's time to place my Elect, my most chosen lineage and spirits on the earth, and this began with Adam & Eve.

But, can't say for sure.... Maybe Adam & Eve literally was the first, so the timeline actually goes back further.

As to your other question.... Yes, being in the Garden would be equivalent to the intellectual development of a child. They were innocent and not accountable, and also in the hands of God. And as with the age of accountability being 8 years or so with children, Adam & Eve came to that point also, and had to understand and choose. This point actually further gives tell that they may have been adults in the Garden and not ever children. But, maybe not. It could be possible they still developed from the ovum & sperm (the base states prior). I guess because since they were immortal, it's okay, because immortal doesn't mean you don't grow, it just means you can't die. Thus, it's quite possible that they DID grow from the base elements into a child and then an adult form. But intellectually, they clearly developed later, not the same time as fallen humans do.

So, in conclusion after writing and going through it in my head, it's quite likely that Adam & Eve DID grow from child to adult physical wise. After all, one other point is the scriptures themselves, they speak of Adam being formed from the dust and Eve from one of his ribs. But, really it could go either way I guess. Sorry, can't definitively most likely say one way or another on this one.

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Just curious, do you believe that Adam and Eve had a childhood, or were they created as adults? For those who believe the latter, do you consider their lives of in the Garden of Eden their equivalent of a childhood?

Don't know.

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Hum, let's put two and two together-

God (the Father; singular) by himself has no power to continue the seeds.

Through "eternal marriage", mans seed continues forever and ever.

Thus we see that the seed- the physical seed of the body continues because of Gods (plural; Man and Women together). It is not that hard of a stretch to believe that Adam and Eve came into the world through a perfectly natural process involving both the Man God and the Women God. Sexual organs are not just a mortal thing. Our sexual organs will continue to work in eternity in the same manners that they work now, only without any problems. If God was going to create a person in his own image wouldn't he use the tools that he and his wife would obviously possess- that of sexual reproductive organs? Why is this such a hard concept for people to believe? If we were truly created in Gods image, wouldn't God also have the same funcionality of his and her organs just as you and I? Perhaps the only real difference between us and God is that his DNA coppies correctly, and without any errors, he would not thus age.

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I think the most likely scenario is that each was born of homo sapiens parents, the first whose spirits were spirit children of God. The post creative Garden state seems relatively static to me so I think perhaps their childhood was outside and before the Garden. Lonely wanderers or even outcasts they might have been, being of superior intelligence compared to the others. Perhaps ministered to by angels. Likely they never knew or saw each other until the Garden.

Just a hypothesis.

Interesting hypothesis. How would one describe a pre-spirit homo sapien? Would they act like us, have a conscience, have agency? Would they be more like intelligent animals, living base lifestyles?

This is very interesting to me, because I've never been able to reconcile the biblical account of the creation with evolution (nor do I care to, as it doesn't shake my faith at all) and I think that this hypothesis comes close being somewhat plausible, if not a bit counter-creationist.

H.

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The crucial part is that they were the first to sin.

To sin you must

1- know that something is prohibited by God, and have that communicated to you.

2- have agency and the intelligence to use that agency

3- have a motivation to violate the clearly communicated rule, implying the ability to reason consequences

4- go ahead and break the rule deliberately

Such a being is not your ordinary early homo sapiens, the crucial part being communication from God.

But such a being would be in a state of innocence until the sin happened, and then the innocence would be gone. Their "world" would be altered forever along with all their perceptions of it.

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Interesting hypothesis. How would one describe a pre-spirit homo sapien? Would they act like us, have a conscience, have agency? Would they be more like intelligent animals, living base lifestyles?

I think of them as more animal-like. Could explain why homo sapiens have been around for hundreds of thousands of years and never developed civilization until relatively recently.

This is very interesting to me, because I've never been able to reconcile the biblical account of the creation with evolution (nor do I care to, as it doesn't shake my faith at all) and I think that this hypothesis comes close being somewhat plausible, if not a bit counter-creationist.

I myself am very anticreationist and I believe that evolution poses no problem whatsoever for LDS doctrine and scripture though of course you would have to decide for yourself.

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Just curious, do you believe that Adam and Eve had a childhood, or were they created as adults? For those who believe the latter, do you consider their lives of in the Garden of Eden their equivalent of a childhood?
Adam and Eve were made precisely as you and I are. . . . [They were] born of a father and mother precisely as your [sic] and I are."
Brigham Young, 3 The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young 914-915 (Thomas Bullock Minutes) (25 March 1855)
God was once known on the earth among his children of mankind, as we know one another. Adam was as conversant with his Father who placed him upon this earth as we are conversant with our earthly parents. The Father frequently came to visit his son Adam, and talked and walked with him; . . .
Brigham Young, 9 Journal of Discourses 147 (12 January 1862)
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I think of them as more animal-like. Could explain why homo sapiens have been around for hundreds of thousands of years and never developed civilization until relatively recently.

I think being "civilized" is the key to both enough linguistic understanding and communication to God.

They were the first "cultural humans" or humans capable of culture and civilization. They no longer lived in the "natural world" (garden) but in a man-made environment like we do. ("houses", garments of skins, recognizing nakedness etc)

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Does this comment really make any sense?

I am not sure that I agree with it, but it definitely makes sense. That is a totally believable hypothesis. I just think they were in some sense "historical individuals", perhaps just because we have their "history"- that would be sufficient to define it for me. We can call that story history or myth- I vote for history.

But it is usually very hard to tell the difference. That is what faith is for.

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Hum, let's put two and two together-

God (the Father; singular) by himself has no power to continue the seeds.

Through "eternal marriage", mans seed continues forever and ever.

Thus we see that the seed- the physical seed of the body continues because of Gods (plural; Man and Women together). It is not that hard of a stretch to believe that Adam and Eve came into the world through a perfectly natural process involving both the Man God and the Women God. Sexual organs are not just a mortal thing. Our sexual organs will continue to work in eternity in the same manners that they work now, only without any problems. If God was going to create a person in his own image wouldn't he use the tools that he and his wife would obviously possess- that of sexual reproductive organs? Why is this such a hard concept for people to believe? If we were truly created in Gods image, wouldn't God also have the same funcionality of his and her organs just as you and I? Perhaps the only real difference between us and God is that his DNA coppies correctly, and without any errors, he would not thus age.

No..... God is the master of "matter". Thus, the use of "sexual organs" are not required or used in the same way any more than the use of his feet are required or even used to travel between time and space/dimensions whatever. Further, he doesn't have "blood". Even more, God's wife didn't plop an earth out of her, any more than she plopped Adam & Eve out of her. Human body's are made of matter, which can be "organized" the same way the earth was organized. Popping out human body's through their loins are not required or likely done in order to create a human.

Remember also, we are FULLY Human..... That means our body's are of "matter/earthly" origin, not Godly origin, which puts to rest the false idea that we "physically" came from God's loins. If we physically came from Gods loins we would be fully Gods as Christ was fully God through his Father. Remember, Christ is the ONLY BEGOTTEN IN THE FLESH of the Father. Thus, we can't be directly from their loins, because Christ is the only one to be. Even further on that, the scriptures clearly teach that we were "made from the dust of the earth", which makes clear that the matter that makes us is from the earth, not God's body. Or are you saying the scriptures are lying?

Don't know what is with the anti-mormon obsession (and the extremely rare mormon) with making God more "human" than he is in order to support their false idea that some early LDS leaders taught "sex with Mary" by perverting their words to mean more than intended.

Our "physical images" reflect our "spiritual images"..... We were first "Intelligences", God then formed us as "Spirits", he then placed our spirits into bodies, same way as he does now. God doesn't create our body's, the natural processes born of the earth and nature do. God does not require natural processes because they no longer work on the natural plain of existence (which requires blood by the way). They work on a spiritual plain, controlling matter through law, through their actual "Power", not through normal mortal processes. Understand the difference? Your idea is like saying that God created the earth with his actual hands. He didn't.... He did it by his POWER, not through any "physical" contact means. Thus, there is no reason to assume he would create our bodies through a normal human way simply because we do. We create things with our hands, we birth through our loins. But God creates everything by HIS POWER, not by normal mortal means.

Remember also that there is another clear example of why you are wrong.... The scriptures clearly state that the Father used the Holy Ghost to place his essence into Mary, to create the Christ. Mary also said that she had no known man. And to try to play on the words "man" is foolish because clearly God would have been "man like" if he was having sex with her. As well it is further foolish to claim that the Holy Ghost "overshadowed" her so he could have sex with her, because again, she would still be having "sex" no matter if the Holy Ghost was there or not. Mary's words are clearly indicating that she hadn't had sex with anyone, so she couldn't understand how she could be pregnant, except by a Miracle. And that miracle was through the Holy Ghost, and the only way God could place his essence into Mary without her knowing.

Think of it scientifically..... There are two types of energy, matter and pure energy. Humans and the universe is made of both. Please tell us why and how God being energy perfected in both forms would function the "same" as a human would? He would not.... Further, do you really think God "looks" like a "human" all the time? He is in all, through all, and of all.... That means his "form" is NOT the same as a human (other than by "image" like a picture, a mirror, but vastly different), thus he would not function the same as a human. Anyway, I think I've made enough good points which put holes in your hypothesis. I'm not saying mine is perfect, because so much we don't know, but I know it's much closer to the scriptures and the words of the Prophets. Your's is only close to the perversion of some of the Prophets words.

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No..... God is the master of "matter". Thus, the use of "sexual organs" are not required or used in the same way any more than the use of his feet are required or even used to travel between time and space/dimensions whatever. Further, he doesn't have "blood". Even more, God's wife didn't plop an earth out of her, any more than she plopped Adam & Eve out of her. Human body's are made of matter, which can be "organized" the same way the earth was organized. Popping out human body's through their loins are not required or likely done in order to create a human.

Not required, I suppose so, you are much more learned than I am and I appreciate your posts but I sincerely hope that the ability to be physically at one with my beautiful wife will not be lost to all eternity.

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Not required, I suppose so, you are much more learned than I am and I appreciate your posts but I sincerely hope that the ability to be physically at one with my beautiful wife will not be lost to all eternity.

I think people get erroneously caught up in a "God can do anything however He wants" mindset. However, I suspect that God acts through natural laws and doesn't just snap His fingers or wrinkle His nose.

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Just curious, do you believe that Adam and Eve had a childhood, or were they created as adults? For those who believe the latter, do you consider their lives of in the Garden of Eden their equivalent of a childhood?

Since Adam and Eve represent each and every one of us, I'd say the answer is yes, I had a childhood.

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Since Adam and Eve represent each and every one of us, I'd say the answer is yes, I had a childhood.

Phew!

I read that one three times. There's a LOT there.

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I think people get erroneously caught up in a "God can do anything however He wants" mindset. However, I suspect that God acts through natural laws and doesn't just snap His fingers or wrinkle His nose.

Are you suggesting that God must only act through "known" natural laws? For example when He walked on water, what known natural law was He using? Or Peter used before His faith wavered? Or what known law of nature did He use to raise the dead, heal the sick, make the blind see, and the deaf hear? I believe that all of these things came to pass, but for the life of me I have never read a scientific tome that indicated what laws were in operation. I do understand that men cannot find out all the things that God understands and does, but it does not make it less true. The atheist scoffs at all the miracles of the scriptures and declare them "impossible" but I do not put my trust in mans puny wisdom or knowledge. This is the main reason I reject the theory of evolution as explained as how things began on earth. I realize I am in a minority here and I understand your need to harmonize these theories with the revelations of God, but I find it difficult to do so. I do not reject all of man's learning or science, but I do not accept all of these theories just because they are popularized today and people are generally marginalized if they dare to disbelieve them.

As for the OP, I don't think Adam and Eve had a childhood (at least not after being placed in the garden) but I accept the fact that Adam and Eve are the son and daughter of God, what this really means I believe has not been fully revealed to us. Also for the record I am not the ex nilo creationalist that some may suspect me to be. I believe this earth was "organized" of existing material which was of great age. However I do believe that there was no death before the fall as far as this earth was concerned.

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However I do believe that there was no death before the fall as far as this earth was concerned.

I agree. There were no humans to use the word, and since all humans can know is human experience, there was no human experience of it before there were humans.

Unless of course you think we can know things which are not part of human experience.

And by the way, I don't think anyone would assert that God can only use KNOWN scientific laws. That is clearly false. That would mean that his powers were limited by what we know, as discoveries are made, which is clearly absurd.

Birds couldn't fly until the Wright Brothers? I don't think so.

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No..... God is the master of "matter". Thus, the use of "sexual organs" are not required or used in the same way any more than the use of his feet are required or even used to travel between time and space/dimensions whatever. Further, he doesn't have "blood". Even more, God's wife didn't plop an earth out of her, any more than she plopped Adam & Eve out of her. Human body's are made of matter, which can be "organized" the same way the earth was organized. Popping out human body's through their loins are not required or likely done in order to create a human.

Remember also, we are FULLY Human..... That means our body's are of "matter/earthly" origin, not Godly origin, which puts to rest the false idea that we "physically" came from God's loins. If we physically came from Gods loins we would be fully Gods as Christ was fully God through his Father. Remember, Christ is the ONLY BEGOTTEN IN THE FLESH of the Father. Thus, we can't be directly from their loins, because Christ is the only one to be. Even further on that, the scriptures clearly teach that we were "made from the dust of the earth", which makes clear that the matter that makes us is from the earth, not God's body. Or are you saying the scriptures are lying?

Don't know what is with the anti-mormon obsession (and the extremely rare mormon) with making God more "human" than he is in order to support their false idea that some early LDS leaders taught "sex with Mary" by perverting their words to mean more than intended.

Our "physical images" reflect our "spiritual images"..... We were first "Intelligences", God then formed us as "Spirits", he then placed our spirits into bodies, same way as he does now. God doesn't create our body's, the natural processes born of the earth and nature do. God does not require natural processes because they no longer work on the natural plain of existence (which requires blood by the way). They work on a spiritual plain, controlling matter through law, through their actual "Power", not through normal mortal processes. Understand the difference? Your idea is like saying that God created the earth with his actual hands. He didn't.... He did it by his POWER, not through any "physical" contact means. Thus, there is no reason to assume he would create our bodies through a normal human way simply because we do. We create things with our hands, we birth through our loins. But God creates everything by HIS POWER, not by normal mortal means.

Remember also that there is another clear example of why you are wrong.... The scriptures clearly state that the Father used the Holy Ghost to place his essence into Mary, to create the Christ. Mary also said that she had no known man. And to try to play on the words "man" is foolish because clearly God would have been "man like" if he was having sex with her. As well it is further foolish to claim that the Holy Ghost "overshadowed" her so he could have sex with her, because again, she would still be having "sex" no matter if the Holy Ghost was there or not. Mary's words are clearly indicating that she hadn't had sex with anyone, so she couldn't understand how she could be pregnant, except by a Miracle. And that miracle was through the Holy Ghost, and the only way God could place his essence into Mary without her knowing.

Think of it scientifically..... There are two types of energy, matter and pure energy. Humans and the universe is made of both. Please tell us why and how God being energy perfected in both forms would function the "same" as a human would? He would not.... Further, do you really think God "looks" like a "human" all the time? He is in all, through all, and of all.... That means his "form" is NOT the same as a human (other than by "image" like a picture, a mirror, but vastly different), thus he would not function the same as a human. Anyway, I think I've made enough good points which put holes in your hypothesis. I'm not saying mine is perfect, because so much we don't know, but I know it's much closer to the scriptures and the words of the Prophets. Your's is only close to the perversion of some of the Prophets words.

You make it sound as if God just floats around on his all-powerful rug which magically floats in the air and he has all power to shake his magic wand at things and do anything he wants to. You make it sound as if He has a body that serves no real function other than something for the rest of us to look at. Lets get real here.

If we are created in "his image" and we carry "his seed" then it stands to reason that his seed (in his sperm) is pretty much the same as my seed (in my sperm). In the resurrection we shall rise with a perfect body which includes all functioning parts, which include the reproductive organs.

As for "blood", we do not know exactly how immortal bodies work or operate. There have been many opinions on this but it stands to reason that an immortal body has both "flesh" and "blood" of some type. I would like to see some scriptural proof of immortals having not bodies of flesh or that of not having blood of some type.

I am made from the "dust of the earth". What does this mean? It means that my father and mother ate food which came from the dust of the earth, then their bodies turned that food into the right sequence of matter which then grew into the shape and form of their bodies. Is God not capable of eating and drinking? Did not the resurrected Christ eat and drink with his apostles to prove to them he was no ghost? Certainly his body had to have the same fuctionality if he was able to eat.

I never said anything about whole sex with Mary thing, we are talking about Adam and Eve here.

Why is it that only "married male and female" can have a continuance of their "seed" in eternity? Is it because they need each others body parts and functions for that to happen? Yes I believe so. Our sexual functions are an eternal part of our being and nature. When we covenant in the temple to only have marital sexual relations with our spouse we make that covenant for eternity, not just for mortality. Life in eternity would be pointless without compassions and desires of the body. This life is where we come to know them passions and desires and learn how to bridal and control them so that we can be trusted in the rest of eternity.

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