How do you deal with hard questions

[zeezrom]

But once you've come out the other side you KNOW the schooling you received was worth any price.

MnG

It is interesting to look at how people end up on the "other side" as we call it. Why do we call it the "other side"? Other side of what?

[Mark Beesley]

People who have trouble with polygyny (why are we saddled with the wrong word, polygamy, even in today's supposedly more educated world?) are simply chronocentrists. And, I believe strongly that they miss the most important parts of the issue because they focus on the man who's the husband, and not on the women, nor on the men who are not husbands.

Polygamy is a perfectly fine word. It includes the subset of polygyny. And since Josesph Smith was sealed to women who had other hubands, polygamy is more accurate.

Multiple wives has been the standard of mating throughout most of history. It is far from uncommon today even in its formal version(s). But informally, it is probably the more prevalent condition of human life.

According to the Lord, polygamy is the exception rather than the rule. Jacob 2:30.

People seldom recall (or reflect) on the fact that it is the women who benefit most through polygyny. Every woman who wants to will be married to a man who is wealthy enough to support her. It won't matter if she's beautiful or ugly, young or old, or in any other condition: there will be a man who will take her as his wife.

But what do I know? I'm just a devil-spawned socialist.

This has got to be the most sexist, condescending thing I have ever read.

On the other hand, only the men who can compete (be it on the basis of wealth, physical attractiveness, strength, intelligence, or whatever attributes women find most appealing) will have wives, the rest of us would be left out in the cold.

In your fantasy world, the only relevant attribute would be strength.

Women must (in general) find polygyny appealing because we see that there are so many who make themselves subordinate wives to men who they know are already married, although their status is "mistress" or "kept woman", or "harlot" or "whore".

Take a poll son . . . or are you still laboring under the delusion that only men enjoy sex?

Polygyny is not about sex, per se. It's about status and economics. It's about women choosing to have better genes for their children (which brings sex into the question, but not as most people imagine).

Tell us you were kidding with this post, please. Do you think women only have sex so they can have children? I feel sorry for your wife . . . you do have a wife, don't you?

People who have a problem with polygyny need to stop and think about it more than simply summarily rejecting the idea based on ephemeral "mores" and "morals".

Great, we're being told to stop and think by someone who thinks women just want a guy to take care of them and impregnate them.

Now, with that said, I am fully convinced that it is God's will, right now, that we not practice plural marriage. He's said so, and I accept that. That's not the question before the house. We are here discussing whether polygyny is ever a good thing, whether it is universally evil. It is not, ipso facto, evil; it is not, on its face, good, either.

If it is not commanded of God, it is evil. See Jacob 2.

It is a reasonable response to the issues facing men and women as they approach life.

Personally, I found your response anything but reasonable.

But there are far more cases where polygyny has been a blessing to all participants than where anyone has been objectively harmed by the practice.

CFR

In retrospect, I probably should have just let the "weaker sex" engage this guy.

[zeezrom]

Do you want to know what I think the hardest question in Mormonism is?

Why does religion look to be simply the outgrowth of various cultural folklores, myths and superstitions - their peoples attempts to explain their own existence in unknowable universe?

This is a hundred times more difficult to deal with than polygamy.

I don't know about 100 times, but you have a good point, SK.

[Jason]

That, of course, is a subjective assessment, based upon how one would answer such questions as SilverKnight listed.

Do you know of any non-subjective assessments of the LDS Church's practice of plural marriage?

[krose]

My fellow board members, lets not get hung up on polygamy. THe thread was started to see how members deal with hard issues.

Good point.

In my own case as an LDS member, I dealt with the difficult-to-explain issues by eventually deciding that the Church was simply wrong.

Hard issues are different issues for each member.

Very true. For me the original "hard issues" were conflicts between orthodox Church beliefs and contrary scientific evidence (evolution, global flood, tower, etc.). But the hardest to explain away was the simple fact that I never really saw evidence of a god who discernibly answered prayers or interacted with humans in ways that improved their lives.

[Jason]

Do you want to know what I think the hardest question in Mormonism is?

Why does religion look to be simply the outgrowth of various cultural folklores, myths and superstitions - our earnest, but futile attempts to explain our existence in unknowable universe?

This is a hundred times more difficult to deal with than polygamy.

Because many aspects of various cultural folkloers, myths and superstitions are actually corruptions and distortions of the actual revealed religious knowledge possessed by our distant ancestors Adam and Noah.

[mercyngrace]

It is interesting to look at how people end up on the "other side" as we call it. Why do we call it the "other side"? Other side of what?

I agree. It's very interesting.

The "other side" is a subjective phrase depending on where you get to, I guess What I was referring to was the other side of the learning/growing process. Not to suggest I am done learning by any stretch of the imagination!

It's like climbing stairs. You move up a step and your perspective changes. You move up 10 steps and things can look radically different. Each step presents opportunities for growth and education and every step upward is "the other side" of somewhere.

[Jason]

But the hardest to explain away was the simple fact that I never really saw evidence of a god who discernibly answered prayers or interacted with humans in ways that improved their lives.

Wheras I see evidence of answered prayers and improvements in our lives nearly every day.

[BCSpace]

I've never struggled with plural marriage. It is obviously a Biblical doctrine acceptable to God from time to time.

[Ariarates]

I don't worry about polygamy at all, so I voted option 1.

[cinepro]

It would be interesting if the poll distinguished between responses from men and responses from women.

[zeezrom]

Perhaps the inner conflict one feels to learn that the esteemed prophet of the restoration:

- had an intimate relationship with a teenage maidservant years before the doctrine of plural marriage was revealed

- sent trusted friends away on missions so he could propose to their wives

- coerce women into becoming his brides by telling them their eternal salvation depended on it

- kept most of his polygamous relationships secret from his wife, much to her chagrin

Those kind of things can throw you for a loop.

Whenever someone tells me they really struggled with polygamy, these items pretty much cover the bases. (on the 3rd statement - add to it that their parents would receive salvation too). Interestingly, this is news to a lot of people that have been active all their life.

[William Schryver]

I think plural marriage is a great principle. At least in theory. Having never tried it out "in practice," I don't know how it would work when it comes to the "details." I suspect it would entail some complex negotiations.

And a bigger house than the one I have now.

If, at some point in the future, it is officially authorized again, I would be willing to "do my duty."

If not, or until then, I am content as can be to have my best friend in the world (who also happens to be the greatest woman I have ever known) as my constant companion.

[krose]

Wheras I see evidence of answered prayers and improvements in our lives nearly every day.

This just points out that the "evidence" of such is subject to widely varying individual interpretations, which indicates that it is far from good, clear evidence.

[Senator]

Do you know of any non-subjective assessments of the LDS Church's practice of plural marriage?

Nope.

Hence, my reluctance to your definitive wording.

[BCSpace]

It would be interesting if the poll distinguished between responses from men and responses from women.

Yet such would not speak to the matter of the truth of the doctrine.

[Spurven Ten Sing]

I get the feeling in perusing this thread is that a lot of the LDS have no issue with polygamy -gyny -andry. In fact, a few have suggested that the marital arrangement is another one of those things that are preferences, usually tied to a milieu. Marriage is a concept that has not been consistent and has changed greatly to fulfill the needs of the culture supporting it. It is presentism and backwards imposing of modern values to judge alternate arrangements.

This forces me to ask, does this hold true? Do the LDS also support modern polygamists in their struggles against the US government? Do they accept and defend the rights of 'swingers'? Do they include, respect, and celebrate the current realignment of the practice by same sex couples?

[zeezrom]

Yet such would not speak to the matter of the truth of the doctrine.

True. But it would be very educational and possibly helpful for those that do grapple with this particular issue.

Also, the "truth" of this issue is potentially difficult to grasp. It could be coupled with our perception of God. If we believe in a God that loves us unconditionally this issue might present some conflicts and thus complicate our idea of truth.

[Jason]

This just points out that the "evidence" of such is subject to widely varying individual interpretations, which indicates that it is far from good, clear evidence.

Or that some of us are more accurate in our observations than others.

[zeezrom]

This forces me to ask, does this hold true? Do the LDS also support modern polygamists in their struggles against the US government? Do they accept and defend the rights of 'swingers'? Do they include, respect, and celebrate the current realignment of the practice by same sex couples?

Good questions. It would be interesting to see what would happen if polygamy were made legal in the U.S. Would we distance ourselves even more from the FLDS if this happened?

[krose]

Or that some of us are more accurate in our observations than others.

Thank you.

[SilverKnight]

Do the LDS also support modern polygamists in their struggles against the US government?

No as LDS believe mormon fundamentalists are apostates living in open defiance of the modern church.

However I suspect LDS would have much less issue with an unrelated religious group, Islam perhaps, practicing polygamy in the U.S.

[ttribe]

This just points out that the "evidence" of such is subject to widely varying individual interpretations, which indicates that it is far from good, clear evidence.

The subjective evaluation of "good" versus "bad" aside, it is still evidence.

[ttribe]

Or that some of us are more accurate in our observations than others.

That seemed a bit unnecessary.

[Jason]

That seemed a bit unnecessary.

It's true. Besides, he turned it around into a rhetorical "win".