revelation Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Me: Again do not misunderstand. What is tiresome to me is the cavalier way, that many, dismiss my freedom to hold to the truth that I have found. The way they come on the board and tell us what we believe and when told they are wrong they ignore or tell us we don't know our own religion.I can sympathize with you. We all have faults which are blind spots to us but are very clear to others. I know that I am no exception to that just like everyone else.I have found the best way (so far) when seeing a fault in another, is to take it as an opportunity to patiently and gently help someone overcome their blindspots by accepting them "as is" but at the same time, by finding encouraging ways to help them overcome their faults with unending patience and love and acceptance. I suppose that's because I realize that I must have countless faults that I am unaware of myself but that others are aware of, and that I would want others to treat me with unending patience and love and I would want them not to cut me down for my faults, but rather to help me grow in those areas with loving, patient and gentle suggestions, ideas, or sharing what worked for them etc. After all, we are all in this together, nobody is perfect. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you really helps me to think about how I would want others to treat me in my failures so that I can try and do likewise for others.I think just about everyone here has told me what I believe also and they keep getting it wrong. I tend to look at the positive in that rather than looking for the negative in that. It shows me that everyone is at least trying to understand what I believe by putting it in their own words. And it is also very helpful to me in seeing what it is they aren't understanding yet so I can explain it better.
LeSellers Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 There will be a government or administration of sorts. Those who have shown faithful to good works will get more "responsibility" in that administration. Kingdom of heaven.So, God is not omnipotent? I mean, you make it sound like He cannot run His own kingdom. Lehi
urroner Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 There will be a government or administration of sorts. Those who have shown faithful to good works will get more "responsibility" in that administration. Kingdom of heaven.What kind of responsibilities? <humor>Will there be Democrats and Republicans or only Republicans? Will those with more rewards be lording over those less worthies? </humor>I'm not trying to make light of what you said Hoops, but I find what you said really fascinating and would really like to hear more about it. I have heard too many Christians just say they are going to sing praises to God for the eternities from saving them and nothing else. Sorry, but that sounds like a really boring thing to only do for the eternities. Do this rewards last for the eternities?
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 What makes it difficult, is trying to point out the sufficiency of the Bible to people who already have their minds made up that it isn't. I am not calling you a Pharisee but as an example the Pharisees already had their minds made up and so nothing would be able to convince them.They also had their minds made up that the scripture they had was sufficient and everything that Christ and his Apostles said that eventually ended up cannonized as the NT was not scripture. Isn't this fun?!
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 They also had their minds made up that the scripture they had was sufficient and everything that Christ and his Apostles said that eventually ended up cannonized as the NT was not scripture. Isn't this fun?!I don't believe that is what the pharisees thought. Afterall, they were expecting a Messiah to come because the OT prophecied about him, they just didn't think Jesus was the Messiah. And actually, the Pharisees didn't think scripture was sufficient because they added their own traditions and even more laws that weren't part of the Bible and in doing so, nullified what the word of God said. Respectfully, It reminds me of some LDS teachings that nullify the word of God. It reminds me of added laws the LDS has. Had the Pharisees believed scripture was sufficient, they would have recognized Jesus! So all in all, the Pharisees failed because the Bible was insufficient to them.
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I don't believe that is what the pharisees thought. Afterall, they were expecting a Messiah to come because the OT prophecied about him, they just didn't think Jesus was the Messiah. And actually, the Pharisees didn't think scripture was sufficient because they added their own traditions and even more laws that weren't part of the Bible and in doing so, nullified what the word of God said. Respectfully, It reminds me of some LDS teachings that nullify the word of God. It reminds me of added laws the LDS has. Had the Pharisees believed scripture was sufficient, they would have recognized Jesus! So all in all, the Pharisees failed because the Bible was insufficient to them.And there is where you interpret the Pharasees incorrectly. It was their "personal interpretations" that they added to scripture. kind of like you revelation. Jeremiah proves this to us when he speaks of the ancestors of the Pharasees thusly...8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?If you remeber the bible wasn't sufficent for Christ and his Apostles. All one needs to read is the sermon on the mount to know this.
RubyHunter Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I can sympathize with you. We all have faults which are blind spots to us but are very clear to others. I know that I am no exception to that just like everyone else.I have found the best way (so far) when seeing a fault in another, is to take it as an opportunity to patiently and gently help someone overcome their blindspots by accepting them "as is" but at the same time, by finding encouraging ways to help them overcome their faults...So, are you telling us that because we have received personal revelation that we are in the right place and doing the right thing... that we are "faulty"?Because that sounds like crap.I suppose that's because I realize that I must have countless faults that I am unaware of myself but that others are aware of, and that I would want others to treat me with unending patience and love and I would want them not to cut me down for my faults, but rather to help me grow in those areas with loving, patient and gentle suggestions, ideas, or sharing what worked for them etc. After all, we are all in this together, nobody is perfect.Agreed. Nobody IS perfect. yet. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you really helps me to think about how I would want others to treat me in my failures so that I can try and do likewise for others.And since you would like us to Do unto others... and looking at how you have done unto us....REVELATION... I call you to repentance... You are wrong! You follow a heathen god!Hurts... don't it?I think just about everyone here has told me what I believe also and they keep getting it wrong.I think we can appriciate that one. People (like you?) telling us what we do and don't believe.Just my snippet of thought at this moment. Seeing as how this has gone on aimelessly for 530+ posts.Just let it die. You can't prove yourself right.We won't prove ourselves right.Just let it die. Everyone!
Calm Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Yes, I have done that in another thread. But People will always resist even when things are sufficient because they think it is insufficient. Perhaps I can draw a comparison for the sake of showing you what I mean: Jesus Christ came into the world to save the world, but many people in his day, despite the sufficieny of the evidence, the miracles, the death and ressurection etc, still found all of that evidence insufficient.But Jesus didn't then point them to someone else to get their atonement from when they rejected him.It would seem from the inerrant viewpoint that if one uses extrabiblical works to prove the Bible, one is adding to the Bible or at least relying on the arm of flesh rather than the Word of God. If you believe the Bible is the complete and inerrant Word of God than anything else will be less effective in teaching that Word and may even mislead.I often wonder why people who believe the Bible is inerrant and the complete Word of God ever bother to read other doctrinal/theological religious books because it would seem that it would be adding to the Bible and teaching personal interpretations (even if a large number of people believe in the same interpretation) as opposed to the Pure Word.
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 And there is where you interpret the Pharasees incorrectly. It was their "personal interpretations" that they added to scripture. kind of like you revelation. Jeremiah proves this to us when he speaks of the ancestors of the Pharasees thusly...8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?If you remeber the bible wasn't sufficent for Christ and his Apostles. All one needs to read is the sermon on the mount to know this.It goes both ways doesn't it. So what can we do? Stop listening to the lying pen of teachers and listen to the word of God instead.
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 It goes both ways doesn't it. So what can we do? Stop listening to the lying pen of teachers and listen to the word of God instead.And who does the word of God come from? Living prophets. (Amos 3:7)
urroner Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 It goes both ways doesn't it. So what can we do? Stop listening to the lying pen of teachers and listen to the word of God instead.If you have answered this question, I have missed the answer, but which version of the Bible is the most correct and the most understandable.
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 So, are you telling us that because we have received personal revelation that we are in the right place and doing the right thing... that we are "faulty"?Because that sounds like crap. I was talking about people's personal faults as in interacting with others in kindness and love. That has absolutely nothing to do with what you are refering to here.And since you would like us to Do unto others... and looking at how you have done unto us....REVELATION... I call you to repentance... You are wrong! You follow a heathen god!Hurts... don't it? No. It doesn't hurt at all actually. But even if it did, If that is truly what you believe and if you truly cared about me, you are obligated to tell me for my good and then teach me how that is so. I think we can appriciate that one. People (like you?) telling us what we do and don't believe. I think it would be great if the LDS (like you) would think positive about it instead of negative. Like I said, the LDS have been telling me what I believe for a long time and they get it wrong. Nothing wrong with that! At least they are trying to get it right. Just my snippet of thought at this moment. Seeing as how this has gone on aimelessly for 530+ posts.Just let it die. You can't prove yourself right.We won't prove ourselves right.Just let it die. Everyone! If some of us want to continue, let us continue in peace. If it's enough for you, then why not just discontinue the converstation on your own?
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 But Jesus didn't then point them to someone else to get their atonement from when they rejected him. I agree. And I also believe that the Bible is sufficient. But others don't and so for their sakes we need extrabibilcal works. I often wonder why people who believe the Bible is inerrant and the complete Word of God ever bother to read other doctrinal/theological religious books because it would seem that it would be adding to the Bible and teaching personal interpretations (even if a large number of people believe in the same interpretation) as opposed to the Pure Word. God gives people different gifts. One person's gift might be the ability to expound on the word of God for us. But with any doctrinal/theological books, we ought to always examine what is said in light of scripture. Varying Interpretations arise for a number of reasons. All of them can be overcome.
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 And who does the word of God come from? Living prophets. (Amos 3:7) Well I would think that living prophets are more likely to have a lying pen.The Bible on the other hand, never lies.
urroner Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Varying Interpretations arise for a number of reasons. All of them can be overcome.Are any of your interpretations of the scripture incorrect?
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 If you have answered this question, I have missed the answer, but which version of the Bible is the most correct and the most understandable.I think it's good to have a few different translations on hand, it gives greater understanding of the meaning sometimes to be able to compare them.
urroner Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 Well I would think that living prophets are more likely to have a lying pen.The Bible on the other hand, never lies.And when one version of the Bible disagrees with another version of the Bible, are they both telling the truth?
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Well I would think that living prophets are more likely to have a lying pen.The Bible on the other hand, never lies.The prophets are who had the pens to write the bible in the first place, and yes the bible does lie...right here...4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Are any of your interpretations of the scripture incorrect?It most certainly is possible. But presently, my conscience is absolutely clear. That is why when Ruby said to me that I am a heathen and asked me if it hurt, I said no, it didn't hurt. The reason is because thus far, my conscience is absolutely clear. So to be honest, that comment had no effect on me at all. If I were neglecting studying the Bible and neglecting studying what you believe to see if it is true and what my church believes to see if it was true etc, then that comment would probably bother me quite a bit. And if it bothers me quite a bit, then God is speaking to me in that moment telling me to see if what Ruby is saying is true or not and that I have neglected to find out! So that that would mean that God was purposefully making me uncomfortable in order to get my attention because I was neglecting to do those things. I am in complete agreement with the teachings of my Synod thus far. If God at some point enlightens me through his word or through someone, such as yourself or anyone else, Then so be it! I will follow God.But presently, my conscience is clear and I have not neglected to test my church and others in search of the truth. If at some point down the road God convinces me (through someone or through his word) of a single false teaching in my church, I will leave my church since God asks us to seperate from anything that contaminates our spirit and false teaching is a contaminate. God wants us to be in a church wherein we agree with every doctrine and teaching and if one single false teaching is there and we remain in that church, we participate in their wicked works and further the cause of evil. So God wants us to seperate out of love for our own souls but also out of love for and a sign to the church teaching the false teaching.
kantgomo Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 And when one version of the Bible disagrees with another version of the Bible, are they both telling the truth?If it seemed to disagree, I'd return to the greek or hebrew. From what I understand, the different versions of the Bible have to do with some are more a word-for-word rendering, others may be worded to get the intended point across, some are paraphrased [which I wouldn't use for a serious study of the Bible. In fact, I don't bother with paraphrased versions]. If I had more time, I'd elaborate better, but little one is calling me to keep her company.
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 And when one version of the Bible disagrees with another version of the Bible, are they both telling the truth?I don't know of any versions that disagree with another. You have to remember also that the Bible is to be taken as a whole. And other passages help us interpret other passages.
kantgomo Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 The prophets are who had the pens to write the bible in the first place, and yes the bible does lie...right here...4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: Point out the lie, zak. I'm slow.
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I am in complete agreement with the teachings of my Synod thus far. If God at some point enlightens me through his word or through someone, such as yourself or anyone else, Then so be it! I will follow God.But presently, my conscience is clear and I have not neglected to test my church and others in search of the truth. If at some point down the road God convinces me (through someone or through his word) of a single false teaching in my church, I will leave my church since God asks us to seperate from anything that contaminates our spirit and false teaching is a contaminate. God wants us to be in a church wherein we agree with every doctrine and teaching and if one single false teaching is there and we remain in that church, we participate in their wicked works and further the cause of evil. So God wants us to seperate out of love for our own souls but also out of love for and a sign to the church teaching the false teaching.Good luck with that non-biblical teaching.1 Cor. 11: 19 19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 2 Pet. 2: 1 1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Zakuska Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Point out the lie, zak. I'm slow.The part I highlighted.It's the lie of Satan for God said...Gen 2 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
revelation Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 The prophets are who had the pens to write the bible in the first place, and yes the bible does lie...But the Bible as a whole proves itself to be true. Certainly your suggestion would be true if the Bible just popped into existence all at once like the BOM.But since each part of the Bible has been around in it's own generation, each a testimony of a different time and when all those books are put together, they meet up in perfect agreement and unity of doctrine showing that the pen of each writer is in agreement like a testimony running all throughout history! It's an amazing book.right here...4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: The Bible doesn't lie, Satan lie's. The fact that God allows Satan to speak in scripture is a testimony to the truth that Satan lie's.
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