If You Received An Answer...

[Ulysses]

As a Christian I view Scripture, the revealed Word of God, as the highest authority. So if someone presented me with a text that I understood to contradict Scripture (e.g., â??saved by grace after all you can doâ?) and asked me to pray about it, Iâ??d be unwilling to put God to such a test. But supposing in a moment of weakness I did exactly thatâ??I prayed about the LDS Book of Mormon. And suppose further that I subsequently felt a â??burning in the bosomâ?â??affirming its validity, per the LDS.

The obvious question: What is the source of that affirmation? Of course Iâ??d turn to Scripture to answer the question. Jeremiah 17:9 would remind me my own heart (my feelings, my instincts, my inclinations) is â??deceitful above all things.â? And the Apostle John would remind me that â??evil spiritsâ? are in the world and that I should â??test the spirits (vis-

[hagoth7]

But LDS donâ??t have any such foundation to evaluate promptings and inclinations of a spiritual nature.

You misunderstand us. I'll fast forward to this one. Here's such a foundation:

Moroni 7:14-19

Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.

For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

So the question I submit to the LDS on the boardâ??how do you know you havenâ??t been deceived?

Does the above provide any answer you might find value in?

[ryanelwood]

As a Christian I view Scripture, the revealed Word of God, as the highest authority. So if someone presented me with a text that I understood to contradict Scripture (e.g., "saved by grace after all you can do") and asked me to pray about it, I'd be unwilling to put God to such a test. But supposing in a moment of weakness I did exactly thatâ??I prayed about the LDS Book of Mormon. And suppose further that I subsequently felt a "burning in the bosom"â??affirming its validity, per the LDS.

The obvious question: What is the source of that affirmation? Of course I'd turn to Scripture to answer the question. Jeremiah 17:9 would remind me my own heart (my feelings, my instincts, my inclinations) is "deceitful above all things." And the Apostle John would remind me that "evil spirits" are in the world and that I should "test the spirits (vis-

[Deborah]

And suppose further that I subsequently felt a â??burning in the bosomâ?â??affirming its validity, per the LDS....

So how do you explain Luke 24:32 "And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?"

[Ulysses]

What has made you decide that the Bible shoudl be used as a standard of truth? Why do you think it is the word of God? Furthermore, which Bible version are referring to as the word of God?

Well ryanelwood, I asked first. How about you answer my question, and then I'll answer yours...

;0)

[Cold Steel]

So if someone presented me with a text that I understood to contradict Scripture (e.g., â??saved by grace after all you can doâ?) and asked me to pray about it, Iâ??d be unwilling to put God to such a test. But supposing in a moment of weakness I did exactly thatâ??I prayed about the LDS Book of Mormon. And suppose further that I subsequently felt a â??burning in the bosomâ?â??affirming its validity, per the LDS. The obvious question: What is the source of that affirmation?

It would mean the work is of God and that your understanding of the Bible was faulty. The workings of the Holy Spirit is the one most important thing that the Adversary cannot duplicate. We see this in Luke 24 when the apostles happened across the Christ unawares. And they said to one another, â??Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?â?

We have discussed the saved by grace after all we can do thing until we're blue in the face. Salvation comes not through works, but that doesn't mean that works are unnecessary to salvation. One reason Moses ascended the mount (and Nephi, and the Brother of Jared) is because it's a way of meeting God to the very extent possible. We cannot travel into the heavens, but we can ascend the mount as far as we can. To, in effect, do all we can do.

Baptism doesn't save, but one cannot be saved without it. If Satan can deceive us through the testimony of Spirit to spirit, then we are open to deception all the time. Even Jesus might have been a devil, as the Jews maintained. But it was the rock of revelation that allowed Peter to say, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God." No other force can mimic it.

[auteur55]

As a Christian I view Scripture, the revealed Word of God, as the highest authority. So if someone presented me with a text that I understood to contradict Scripture (e.g., â??saved by grace after all you can doâ?) and asked me to pray about it, Iâ??d be unwilling to put God to such a test.

And this will always be the great disconnect because the Bible is not the final authority to LDS, God is. When God speaks we obey and when God chooses to give us more of his holy writ we accept it wholeheartedly and rejoice accordingly. We see no reason to believe the Bible is the final authority on our relationship with God but instead a sacred collection of writings detailing God's dealings with certain peoples. We read it because it's a witness of the reality of the savior, improves our knowledge of God and provides many of his teachings.

But supposing in a moment of weakness I did exactly thatâ??I prayed about the LDS Book of Mormon. And suppose further that I subsequently felt a â??burning in the bosomâ?â??affirming its validity, per the LDS.

The obvious question: What is the source of that affirmation? Of course Iâ??d turn to Scripture to answer the question. Jeremiah 17:9 would remind me my own heart (my feelings, my instincts, my inclinations) is â??deceitful above all things.â? And the Apostle John would remind me that â??evil spiritsâ? are in the world and that I should â??test the spirits (vis-

[Avatar4321]

Because God doesn't lie.

When you recieve the witness from the Holy Ghost in it's power, love, and glory, it's very distinct, enlightening, and impressionable.

Ive always marveled that people who clearly have never experienced the Witness of the Holy Ghost and who admit they havent try to lecture people on spiritual experiences from God. Of course you dont know how you wouldnt be decieved. You've never experienced God! You rely on your own understanding to try to know who Christ is and that is impossible.

The Holy Spirit is the standard through which man can know the truth of all things. If you believe what the Bible says, you should believe this as well. If you think you can be decieved by God, then you have some bigger spiritual issues to work through.

[Ulysses]

It would mean the work is of God and that your understanding of the Bible was faulty. The workings of the Holy Spirit is the one most important thing that the Adversary cannot duplicate. We see this in Luke 24 when the apostles happened across the Christ unawares. And they said to one another, â??Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?â?

It seems you (and Deborah) would use the Bible (Luke 24) to undo the Bible. You suppose the Bible gives you an unfailing means to detecting the truth--your heart burning with in you. And if your heart burns within you regarding any question--then you suppose that answer to be reliable even if it contradicts the Bible itself. Do you see the irony in your reply, Cold Steel? Do you see the paradox you've stepped into?

I'm sure many of your readers can. So think about those readers before you post your next response...

[ttribe]

It seems you (and Deborah) would use the Bible (Luke 24) to undo the Bible. You suppose the Bible gives you an unfailing means to detecting the truth--your heart burning with in you. And if your heart burns within you regarding any question--then you suppose that answer to be reliable even if it contradicts the Bible itself. Do you see the irony in your reply, Cold Steel? Do you see the paradox you've stepped into?

I'm sure many of your readers can. So think about those readers before you post your next response...

Can God, Himself, supersede that which is written in the Bible?

[Verdad]

Ryan,

What has made you decide that the Bible shoudl be used as a standard of truth? Why do you think it is the word of God? Furthermore, which Bible version are referring to as the word of God?

Please tell us what made you decide that the BoM should be used as a standard of truth? Why do you think it is the word of God? Furthermore, which version of the BoM are you referring to?

Ragoth,

Does the above provide any answer you might find value in?

How can it? There us no proof that it is any more than an fairytale. A story to tell children but not to be taken too seriously.

Auteur,

Because God promised that he would answer our prayers and wouldn't give us a serpent. Are you saying Satan is more powerful then God? Your claim that a son or daughter of God could go to him in humble prayer only to be answered by Satan is a direct contradiction of God's promise to us in the scriptures.

How do you explain those of us who are asked in sincere and devote prayer if Mormonism was valid and got the answer that it was not?

[jerryp48]

As a Christian I view Scripture, the revealed Word of God, as the highest authority.

How have you come to this? Please don't tell me by pure logic or I'm likely to start worshiping my calculus textbook.

[Rommelator]

As a Christian I view Scripture, the revealed Word of God, as the highest authority.

As a Christian, I view God as the highest authority.

So if someone presented me with a text that I understood to contradict Scripture (e.g., â??saved by grace after all you can doâ?) and asked me to pray about it, Iâ??d be unwilling to put God to such a test.

This begs the question as to whether or not the Book of Mormon contradicts the Bible. Oh, and its also a false dilemma.

But supposing in a moment of weakness I did exactly thatâ??I prayed about the LDS Book of Mormon.

A moment of weakness? Humility maybe, but weakness?

eremiah 17:9 would remind me my own heart (my feelings, my instincts, my inclinations) is â??deceitful above all things.â?

Actually.

http://lehislibrary.wordpress.com/2008/05/...f-jeremiah-179/

Obviously if I received some sort of spiritual confirmation of a text that in any way contradicted the Bibleâ??I would know the origin of that confirmation to be the sort of spirit John warned about.

Again, this begs the question as to whether or not the Book of Mormon really contradicts the Bible or just your interpretation of such.

[Garden Girl]

You suppose the Bible gives you an unfailing means to detecting the truth--your heart burning with in you. And if your heart burns within you regarding any question--then you suppose that answer to be reliable even if it contradicts the Bible itself.

Hello Ulysses...

In the first place, you seem to continue to assume that the only feeling we LDS receive as confirmation of truth by the Holy Ghost is a "burning in the bosom." You neglect that in addition to the "burning," there can be a feeling of confidence.. a knowing in mind and heart... an assuredness... and sometimes joy. I was attending high school seminary and our study was of the Book of Mormon. I had had the good feelings and confidence about what I was reading and I believed it to be true, but I can remember to this day on one occasion as I read, a feeling of joy started in my navel and moved up my body, growing in intensity until tears came into my eyes and I heard the "still small voice"... This is True... My joy was so great I could hardly contain it. I would retain that testimony for many years when my path took me away from the Church... but also drew me back until I reactivated. I started all over again, reading and studying... and again I felt the powerful witness of the Spirit. And today, 12 years later, I continue to receive a witness from time to time as I study... sometimes a quiet, peaceful confidence... sometimes the "burning"...

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance..." It is the Holy Ghost that teaches us truth...

Garden Girl

[Anijen]

As a Christian I view Scripture, the revealed Word of God

As do us Mormon who BTW are Christians.

as the highest authority.

No we don believe The Bible to be the Highest Authority. It is a Holy book. God the Father is the highest Authority.

if someone presented me with a text that I understood to contradict Scripture (e.g., â??saved by grace after all you can doâ?) and asked me to pray about it, Iâ??d be unwilling to put God to such a test.

If you only ask God only what you understandYou will not progress much past your own learning and what if your understanding is wrong?

Of course Iâ??d turn to Scripture to answer the question. Jeremiah 17:9

That is good make sure you do not cherry pick your verses to conform to your own understanding. In the verses you quoted let us take them in content. Jeremiah says just a few verses earlier that we are not to trust in man.. whose heart departeth from the Lord of course that man and his heart we should not trust. However we can trust in our hearts as the scriptures attest to for example

Jer. 20: 9

9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.

Luke 24: 32

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Ps. 39: 3

3 My heart was hot within me, while I was musing the fire burned: then spake I with my tongue,

So yes Ulysses turn to the scripture but be open to the spirit.

And the Apostle John would remind me that â??evil spiritsâ? are in the world and that I should â??test the spirits (vis-

[bluebell]

So the question I submit to the LDS on the boardâ??how do you know you havenâ??t been deceived?

To put it bluntly, i have tested the fruit of the book of mormon, i have prayed for wisdom concerning it's origins, i have looked to the Holy Spirit to lead me to the truth and i have felt my heart burn within me concerning it's teachings.

If i have been deceived, then the bible has led me astray, because the bible teaches that all the things i have done will lead me to God's truth.

[Verdad]

To put it bluntly, i have tested the fruit of the book of mormon, i have prayed for wisdom concerning it's origins, i have looked to the Holy Spirit to lead me to the truth and i have felt my heart burn within me concerning it's teachings.

If i have been deceived, then the bible has led me astray, because the bible teaches that all the things i have done will lead me to God's truth.

Perhaps you have misunderstood the response that your received. Funny that so many, many others have gotten the absolute opposite response. Perhaps you are anticipating the response that you expect to receive and therefore getting the answer that you want to get. Not unusual. Rather a typical false positive. You might want to consider it.

[Anijen]

Perhaps you have misunderstood the response that your received. Funny that so many, many others have gotten the absolute opposite response. Perhaps you are anticipating the response that you expect to receive and therefore getting the answer that you want to get. Not unusual. Rather a typical false positive. You might want to consider it.

Perhaps she did misunderstood but my thinking and empathy is she did not misunderstand. You mention that it is funny that so many have received an opposite answer I would think that many in fact millions have received the same answer and confirmation that Bluebell did. And if those who did receive an opposite answer after sincere heartfelt search perhaps God has a different plan and time for that person to receive further light and knowledge.

[sleepyhead]

Perhaps you have misunderstood the response that your received. Funny that so many, many others have gotten the absolute opposite response. Perhaps you are anticipating the response that you expect to receive and therefore getting the answer that you want to get. Not unusual. Rather a typical false positive. You might want to consider it.

Hello verdat,

As an exmormon who no longer believes in anything lds, I agree with bluebell. If the book of mormon has produced good fruit in her life then she should continue reading it. If her affiliation with any particular organization, including the lds church, helps to produce good fruit in her life then she should remain in the organization.

[Jason]

A book can have no more authority than its author. And if you find a book confusing, the surest way to resolve what the author meant is to ask him.

[Verdad]

Perhaps she did misunderstood but my thinking and empathy is she did not misunderstand. You mention that it is funny that so many have received an opposite answer I would think that many in fact millions have received the same answer and confirmation that Bluebell did. And if those who did receive an opposite answer after sincere heartfelt search perhaps God has a different plan and time for that person to receive further light and knowledge.

Perhaps. And perhaps the the further light and knowledge will be\ far beyond the Mormon mundane belief. It would not be had to imagine that.

[Jason]

Perhaps you have misunderstood the response that your received. Funny that so many, many others have gotten the absolute opposite response.

CFR?

"Many, many others"?

[Rincewind]

As a Christian I view Scripture, the revealed Word of God, as the highest authority.

I hold God Himself as the highest authority, but whatever floats your boat.

So if someone presented me with a text that I understood to contradict Scripture (e.g., â??saved by grace after all you can doâ?) and asked me to pray about it, Iâ??d be unwilling to put God to such a test.

Well...that leads me to ask the question, does it contradict scripture, or does it contradict your interpretation thereof?

(For more fun, what do you do if you have two texts in the Bible that seemingly contradict each other? I've had that happen before.)

But supposing in a moment of weakness

Odd way of putting it.

I did exactly thatâ??I prayed about the LDS Book of Mormon. And suppose further that I subsequently felt a â??burning in the bosomâ?â??affirming its validity, per the LDS.

The obvious question: What is the source of that affirmation? Of course Iâ??d turn to Scripture to answer the question. Jeremiah 17:9 would remind me my own heart (my feelings, my instincts, my inclinations) is â??deceitful above all things.â? And the Apostle John would remind me that â??evil spiritsâ? are in the world and that I should â??test the spirits (vis-

[Jason]

Curses! Now to choose...John or Paul...Paul or John...decisions, decisions.

Ooh! Take Ringo!

[TrespassersW]

So if someone presented me with a text that I understood to contradict Scripture (e.g., â??saved by grace after all you can doâ?) and asked me to pray about it, Iâ??d be unwilling to put God to such a test.

It seems to me that there are two possibilities here: either your understanding is correct, and there is a contradiction, or your understanding is incorrect, and there isn't necessarily a contradiction. What I think is a more pertinent question is: would you be willing to put your understanding to such a test?

Of course Iâ??d turn to Scripture to answer the question.

If there is some test that lets us identify whether or not a book is the revealed Word of God, then it should apply equally well to both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, should it not? Why not use the same test on both books? To do otherwise would be to exercise a double standard.

So the question I submit to the LDS on the boardâ??how do you know you havenâ??t been deceived?

Step 1) Develop a personal relationship with God.

Step 2) Ask Him.