New Book Published by FAIR

[juliann]

I hope this isn't offensive, it's just my personal opinion.

It was offensive the first time you bashed it.

[John Williams]

Oh my gosh....they are beside themselves. It is really upsetting them that anyone is openly talking about this topic. My favorite was the manufactured indignation over using a standard term like shaken faith. I don't know about the rest of you....but shaken baby was the first thing I thought of when I saw the title.

That's what I thought, too. Comparing shaken faith to shaken baby syndrome is pretty poor taste, if you ask me. But I'm not "beside myself" about it. I suppose I'll have to read the book before I can manufacture any indignation, though.

[LifeOnaPlate]

It was offensive the first time you bashed it.

Heaven forbid someone offer a candid opinion on a book cover, for the love of Pete.

[John Williams]

Are you surprised? Like the Book of Mormon, other LDS liturature seems to be okay to criticize without the need to read it.

Yeah, no exmormon has ever read the Book of Mormon.

[LifeOnaPlate]

I doubt he meant in all cases, there, John W, you wascally wabbit.

[Rommelator]

Yeah, no exmormon has ever read the Book of Mormon

Nice try, John.

I was actually paraphrasing non-LDS scholar Thomas O'Dea in his book The Mormons who said that, and I am paraphrasing here, the Book of Mormon seems to be the one book that people can have an opinion about without reading it.

The same, I would say, goes for other LDS liturature or presentations, for the most part. Take Dan Peterson's recent lecture at Olivewood Bookstore on Book of Mormon evidence. Over at the-board-which-shall-not-be-named posters were already critical of Dr. Peterson's lecture before he even gave it. And, apparantly, the same goes for Brother Ash's new book.

I doubt he meant in all cases, there, John W, you wascally wabbit.

True that. But hey, it was fun to see John take upon him the mantle of Fawn Brodie and try (unsuccessfully) to read my mind and motives.

[John Williams]

Nice try, John.

I was actually paraphrasing non-LDS scholar Thomas O'Dea in his book The Mormons who said that, and I am paraphrasing here, the Book of Mormon seems to be the one book that people can have an opinion about without reading it.

Well, excuuuuse me. You responded to ex-LDS criticism of Mike's book by suggesting that we hadn't read the BofM either.

The same, I would say, goes for other LDS liturature or presentations, for the most part. Take Dan Peterson's recent lecture at Olivewood Bookstore on Book of Mormon evidence. Over at the-board-which-shall-not-be-named posters were already critical of Dr. Peterson's lecture before he even gave it. And, apparantly, the same goes for Brother Ash's new book.

I for one hope that Mike's book is way better than the title or the cover.

True that. But hey, it was fun to see John take upon him the mantle of Fawn Brodie and try (unsuccessfully) to read my mind and motives.

After I finish my mission memoirs, I'm planning to write a psychobiography of you.

[Rommelator]

Well, excuuuuse me

You are excused.

You responded to ex-LDS criticism of Mike's book by suggesting that we hadn't read the BofM either.

Nope. I was making an allusion to O'Dea's comments because, as I pointed out, like the Book of Mormon, people tend to criticize LDS material before engaging it.

After I finish my mission memoirs, I'm planning to write a psychobiography of you.

I hope it is better than Brodie's trainwreck of a book.

Make sure that you include a passage like this:

"He knew that his mother did not think highly of him, which is what forced him into an obsession with Mormon apologetics."

[John Williams]

You are excused.

Nope. I was making an allusion to O'Dea's comments because, as I pointed out, like the Book of Mormon, people tend to criticize LDS material before engaging it.

I hope it is better than Brodie's trainwreck of a book.

Make sure that you include a passage like this:

"He knew that his mother did not think highly of him, which is what forced him into an obsession with Mormon apologetics."

You really think it's a train wreck? I recognize the limitations of her psychobiographical approach, but for the most part, the research has stood the test of time. The only item I can really find fault with is her explanation of the reason why Smith and Rigdon were tarred and feathered in Ohio, which is based on very suspect testimony. Beyond that, it's pretty well written and documented.

But what do I know? I'm one of them evil apostates.

[MAsh]

Oh. I thought you were referring to published reviews, not the banter on an ex-mo board. Although, I have to say, they kind of have you on the Poelman talk thing, if they are representing it correctly. I was pretty disappointed in the way that was edited, and I find it odd that you would have used the unedited version, if in fact you did. Did you?

I used the unedited version because it's a good quote & he said it. I reference the fact that it was edited in the footnote.

[MAsh]

That's what I thought, too. Comparing shaken faith to shaken baby syndrome is pretty poor taste, if you ask me. But I'm not "beside myself" about it. I suppose I'll have to read the book before I can manufacture any indignation, though.

I chose the title for 2 reasons:

1) It's catchy, stands out, & is easy to remember.

2) It's a fair analogy of what happens to some members. Shaken Baby Syndrome is caused by an outside attack on a fragile infant. It can cause death or neurological damage (how the baby is able to think). Shaken Faith Syndrome is typically caused by an outside attack on a fragile testimony. It can cause spiritual death or a major shift in paradigms that re-evaluates how one sees the Church, prophets, etc. (typically in a negative way).

Both are serious-- one physically, and one spiritually.

[MAsh]

FYI,

For those of you who would rather purchase Shaken Faith Syndrome through Deseret Book (for reward points, or whatever), you can now order it from their on-line bookstore here: http://deseretbook.com/store/product?sku=5011606

Hopefully, it will be on their shelves at the brick & mortar stores soon.

(And I know that the graphic is extra "pink" for the on-line bookstores. I new graphic should be up soon. The actual book cover [despite the fact that some people don't like it] is not as pink as the graphic portrays].)

[juliann]

I used the unedited version because it's a good quote & he said it. I reference the fact that it was edited in the footnote.

They apparently think that you find conference talks by watching and transcribing YouTube. There is a very obvious footnote marker dangling in plain view that any responsible reader would feel compelled to see before saying anything foolish....but as O'Dea noted....

[John Williams]

I chose the title for 2 reasons:

1) It's catchy, stands out, & is easy to remember.

True enough.

2) It's a fair analogy of what happens to some members. Shaken Baby Syndrome is caused by an outside attack on a fragile infant. It can cause death or neurological damage (how the baby is able to think). Shaken Faith Syndrome is typically caused by an outside attack on a fragile testimony. It can cause spiritual death or a major shift in paradigms that re-evaluates how one sees the Church, prophets, etc. (typically in a negative way).

Both are serious-- one physically, and one spiritually.

I don't think faith is necessarily shaken by an outside attack. And you can have a strong testimony and still figure out that the church isn't true.

Paradigm shifts are necessary if we wish to grow and learn in our lives. I'll have to read your book, but I hope that you are telling people that a re-evaluation of one's beliefs is not a bad thing and is quite healthy. You can shift your paradigm without leaving the church, I would imagine.

[MAsh]

True enough.

I don't think faith is necessarily shaken by an outside attack. And you can have a strong testimony and still figure out that the church isn't true.

I agree. My book, however, deals primarily with those who are shaken because of some information they discover from critical sources.

Paradigm shifts are necessary if we wish to grow and learn in our lives. I'll have to read your book, but I hope that you are telling people that a re-evaluation of one's beliefs is not a bad thing and is quite healthy. You can shift your paradigm without leaving the church, I would imagine.

I actually hope that most members make a paradigm shift to a more mature understanding of scriptures, the nature of prophets, history, etc. The point of my previous post is simply that a Shaken Faith can cause one to distrust prophets, become cynical about conference addresses, and become hyper-critical about all things LDS (this is a simplification of a complex situation, but I'm just trying to help you understand my reasoning for the title).

[wenglund]

Hi Mike,

Looks like a great read, and judging from all the pre-publication chatter, it is destined for notariety. Congratulations!

But, did you have to position the older guy on the cover so that he appears to be eyeing the young girl? Talk about feeding certain stereotypes. LOL

Thanks, -Wade Engund-

[MAsh]

Hi Mike,

Looks like a great read, and judging from all the pre-publication chatter, it is destined for notariety. Congratulations!

But, did you have to position the older guy on the cover so that he appears to be eyeing the young girl? Talk about feeding certain stereotypes. LOL

Thanks, -Wade Engund-

Only a warped mind....

[wenglund]

Only a warped mind....

Oops...you caught me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Kevin Christensen]

Well, I did read a pre-publication version of Mike's book, and I think it is an excellent resource, well worth having. I've read other approaches to the same topic that I found disappointingly tepid (Those Who Wonder) or suffering from what I call "spiritual masochism," superficiality, and reeking of negativity and disillusion (the specific names I will refrain from mentioning today). Mike shows that he knows the issues, that he knows that what makes the issue an issue in the first place is not the data itself, but the framework in which it is placed. He knows the relationship between seed, soil, opposition, and nurturing. He writes clearly, empathetically and with a background of informed faith. He's offering genuine insight towards healing. Not just making suggestions for salvaging some debris from a shipwreck.

Since I have not seen the cover, I will withhold comment. But frankly, it's the content that attracts me. There are books that offer the same old thing, and books with something to say. Mike has always been worth reading. He really does have insightful things to say on the topic.

Well done, and congratulations. Perhaps I can score a copy for Father's Day.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[ERMD]

We're leaving for Mexico next week, so I need some beach/poolside reading.

Just ordered a copy.

Thanks!

[MAsh]

Well, I did read a pre-publication version of Mike's book, and I think it is an excellent resource, well worth having. I've read other approaches to the same topic that I found disappointingly tepid (Those Who Wonder) or suffering from what I call "spiritual masochism," superficiality, and reeking of negativity and disillusion (the specific names I will refrain from mentioning today). Mike shows that he knows the issues, that he knows that what makes the issue an issue in the first place is not the data itself, but the framework in which it is placed. He knows the relationship between seed, soil, opposition, and nurturing. He writes clearly, empathetically and with a background of informed faith. He's offering genuine insight towards healing. Not just making suggestions for salvaging some debris from a shipwreck.

Since I have not seen the cover, I will withhold comment. But frankly, it's the content that attracts me. There are books that offer the same old thing, and books with something to say. Mike has always been worth reading. He really does have insightful things to say on the topic.

Well done, and congratulations. Perhaps I can score a copy for Father's Day.

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

Thanks, Kevin! That means a lot coming from you. Would you mind if I post this on www.ShakenFaithSyndrome.com website. I realize this is based on a review of the pre-publication version (which I would note), but it might help indecisive shoppers make a decision.

(& btw, for those who dislike my cover, I've sold several copies to friends & neighbors [many of whom are very candid], and I've had more than a few comment on how much they liked the cover [without me asking their opinion]-- so there )

[Kevin Christensen]

Mike,

Post away, if you think it will help. I like the cause.

Best,

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[HiJolly]

Thanks, Kevin! That means a lot coming from you. Would you mind if I post this on www.ShakenFaithSyndrome.com website. I realize this is based on a review of the pre-publication version (which I would note), but it might help indecisive shoppers make a decision.

(& btw, for those who dislike my cover, I've sold several copies to friends & neighbors [many of whom are very candid], and I've had more than a few comment on how much they liked the cover [without me asking their opinion]-- so there )

Unh. Maybe it's an Arizona thing....

HiJolly (former Arizonan)

[Garden Girl]

I don't think the cover is so bad...

GG

[Tanyan]

I suppose I could order it on line, Which would be a valued book among my other LDS JEDI material that I am in possession of here, but I will go to my local LDS Bookstore to have them order it and some extra copies for them to put in there LDS Apologetic section of there bookstore I helped put together some time back.

In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan.