New Book Published by FAIR

[Dale]

Mike I realize you had a space problem. I think the book is fine as is. It is a good help to have. I see some critics as rebuttal happy. I figure your book will probably considering its importance become a response review target for critics. If they can figure out ways to hurt the credibility of your conclusions as an author in your readers minds they will do it.

The book is useful. I have been studying the Bible vs. the Book of Mormon film. I use it frequently with the Book of Mormon animal issue. I have a stack of Anti-Mormon books and stuff from Signature Books on historicity issues i have been reading. Book of Mormon criticism issues is my main topic of choice so i flip through my Mormonism Shadow, or Reality? ect. I like to study carefully critic topics. Having a good basic resource gives me a quick answer.

[Rommelator]

I have been studying the Bible vs. the Book of Mormon film.

Out of curiosity, Dale, have your read the reviews of this film by Brant Gardner and David Bokovoy? I discussed it on my blog a little while ago. http://americantestament.blogspot.com/2008...nd-bokovoy.html

Furthermore, FAIR's Youtube site has some videos that challenge the video as well.

[Dale]

I only have a copy of the review by Brant. I seem to recall reading the other review in the past. My understanding is FAIR is working on a DVD that will cover the topics. I anxiously await the future film. I plan to buy a stack of copies. Until its out i can enjoy the parts of it FAIR put online. I am not impressed with Bible vs. The Book of Mormon arguments after pondering them much.

I find watching such a film gives me good practice for conversational dialogue. I find my pretend sessions with critics helped me survive several witnessing encounters. Just pretending to go back and forth with the same critics provides me answers when i need them. I watch these films over and over until i am satisfied my answers are decent enough i can use them.

Even if this new book does not in detail handle all issues FAIR is not ignoring deeper issues. So anybody having the new book and has further needs can still get more research.

[Rommelator]

I find watching such a film gives me good practice for conversational dialogue. I find my pretend sessions with critics helped me survive several witnessing encounters.

That is exactly why I watch/read anti-Mormon materials. It gives me "practice". It also allows me, like you said, to be able to handle witnessing sessions at, for example Temple Square during conference or the Manti Conference.

Ha! You know what they say, great minds think alike.

Also look forward to FAIR's video. Tyler Livingston (livy111us) has told me that he is working hard on getting it done and I have a feeling that the finished product is going to be very good.

[Dale]

One of the issues from the book is the issue of Joseph Smith and the occult. (Ch.27:245-251) I would in the section on What is"Magic" and Does the Bible Forbit it? suggest expansion of the argument. With the Bible on this subject I see critics pointing to scriptures like Deut.18:10 and Jeremiah 29:8,9. They will argue the type of divination Joseph Smith engaged in is strictly forbidden. I feel it was strictly forbidden when Jesus was not higher in authority than the law. So if he chose to tolerate Joseph Smiths use of a seer stone to search for treasure he broke no in effect pro-hibition. This is not to say i know from modern revelation God condoned Joseph Smiths 1826 activities. I think it unlikely God condoned his bad choices.

I think it unlikely Joseph Smiths was commanded to stop. Like any other man the Lord let him make his salvation from hell choices. When he got the plates he learned his idea of getting them for gain was over. He was told he could not get them unless he got that idea out of his head. So i think it likely the Lord let very well Satan tempt Joseph Smith. And if Satan gave Joseph Smith any false promptings where to find treasure big deal. If he after his baptism had occult ideas, or artifacts like the tailsman also big deal.

[UKRichie]

From the reviews alone, this thing sounds potentially pretty useful - though I agree that on the basis of cover illustration, it either looks like something spoof, or dire.

Over 'here', even now, there's by-and-large a prevailing, almost unhealthy, provincial mindset frowning strongly on anything even remotely connected with 'iffy' topics - and that can simply mean comparative religion or facing/dealing with historical revisionists. Thankfully, there are at last some indications of change, possibly helped by last year's Ensign MM article, for example. Maybe being so far from the US, and any LDS scholarly enviroment, doesn't help - especially for people in remoter (basically outside London) areas. As a result, an ostrich attitude to 'dangers' that in fact aren't, sees so many young people leave Church on encountering mainstream teaching at university, etc, as their faith-sustaining paradigm (naturally not the essence of the faith itself) stops making sense. We've counted loads.

[Dale]

It does not help it when people tell others to avoid critical literature like pornography. To me instead one should tell people answers are and have been worked on. To me if someone is running into doubt and question issues they need helps not being told not to worry about it. Telling persons just to have faith, or stay away from thinking about issues is a bad response. That leaves them thinking maybe the critics explanation and interpretation is the only option they had.

Today i had another experience proving reading critics is a blessing not a curse to me. I live in disabled housing because of my MS. And i go out of my apartment and read whatever materials i am studying on a nice central area table. I tend to avoid witnessing, or having religious conversations voluntarily. But one of my friends tried to witness to me with triva topics on Mormonisms errors, grace alone, and trying to get me to accept his true Jesus as the true right way. I was able to handle each of his many issues because i was not under unprepared for their witnessing approach.

The only problem i had was sometimes he would refuse to listen to answers. People i found bounce from topic to topic. I had to really push my foot in the door to stop him where i could. But he would direct me to trying to accept his Jesus and praying about his Jesus after his points failed. I stole an anti-Mormon technique regarding a specific excuse not to pray about the Book of Mormon. I told him to me it would only open me to Satan's influences like praying about robbing a bank would.

I kept my cool under control. And we parted without any heat between us. But with sensational witnessing ploys i see no other way to handle the conversation. My other friend that witnessed to converasion atleast knows i can successfully stand up for myself. If i had not read critics i would have looked pretty dumb, and i would be stumped all the time.

When i moved in someone trudged out Mormonism Mama and Me by Granny Geer. It is so cool to have an equal size FAIR book. But i saw a lot of topics in the book not covered by the new FAIR book. So if FAIR publishes a next big book they really need a more comprehensive covering of topics.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Mike Ash is on the Van Hale program right now. Listen in for free.

Live Internet Streaming Audio

can be accessed at:

www.k-talk.com

or mms://stream.netro.ca/ktkk

[lostindc]

Dearest Mike Ash,

Can we purchase to book and read it online? I do not want to wait for the book to be delivered, and I would like to read it at work.

Thanks

[MAsh]

Dearest Mike Ash,

Can we purchase to book and read it online? I do not want to wait for the book to be delivered, and I would like to read it at work.

Thanks

So far there is no e-version. We're hoping to do an mp3, but that's still in the works. As of now, it's avialable in paperback only. Sorry.

Mike

[lostindc]

So far there is no e-version. We're hoping to do an mp3, but that's still in the works. As of now, it's avialable in paperback only. Sorry.

Mike

Alright, I just wait for it to come by mail, anyways can I be the voice of the book or at get Kirby Heyborne (whatever his name is) to read the introduction.

[Dale]

An mp3 would be nice if and when it happens. If it does not happen it was a nice idea anyway.

An E-version might be nice, but people should pay to read. I myself prefer the book in my hands. I prefer to mark up my books with a scripture pencil. I like making notes in by books.

I need to buy a new copy of the book i am quickly wearing my copy out. By accident i also sat down on it and put a crease in it.

[Rommelator]

I need to buy a new copy of the book i am quickly wearing my copy out. By accident i also sat down on it and put a crease in it.

Not to mention that it helps out FAIR and Brother Ash.

[Tanyan]

Alright, I just wait for it to come by mail, anyways can I be the voice of the book or at get Kirby Heyborne (whatever his name is) to read the introduction.

Hey I met that Kirby Heyborne at our local LDS bookstore [upland C.A] several months ago. We made a covenant that someday we would go tracting together on Holt Ave in the city of Pomona C.A. .

In His Debt/Grace, Tanyan LDS JEDI KNIGHT.

[Dale]

I do not mind supporting FAIR, or Michael R. Ash as a writer by purchasing another book.

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

Dang, I totally missed the book signing I showed up the wrong day (one day late!)

Bro. Ash, are you doing any other book signings in Provo/Orem?

[MAsh]

Dang, I totally missed the book signing I showed up the wrong day (one day late!)

Bro. Ash, are you doing any other book signings in Provo/Orem?

Don't know of anything soon. I'll let you know if I do.

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

The BYU bookstore would be a great choice!

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

I have finished the book now! I HIGHLY recommend it. It is, for the time being, the best printed resource on the topic out there. There are a few minor editing problems here and there, but the content is very good and very useful.

[MAsh]

I have finished the book now! I HIGHLY recommend it. It is, for the time being, the printed resource on the topic out there. There are a few minor editing problems here and there, but the content is very good and very useful.

Please email me (mash@xmission.com) whatever editing problems you've found so they can be fixed in future editions.

Thanks, btw, for the kind comments.

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

Speaking of editing problems, just look at my posts. Sheesh. I sent you an email.

[MAsh]

Shaken Faith Syndrome is now available in German!

Diagnose Glaubensschw

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

German is great, but wouldn't Spanish be more useful? Is a Spanish version being planned?

[MAsh]

German is great, but wouldn't Spanish be more useful? Is a Spanish version being planned?

No Spanish version is planned... but if we had someone willing to translate the book into Spanish...

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

No Spanish version is planned... but if we had someone willing to translate the book into Spanish...

hahaha.......

My translation probably wouldn't be very good, but I would be willing to contribute in some way, if you can find others that are also interested. I'm better at revising and editing a translation than making it in the first place.