charity's child Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Are the tales by the Brothers Grimm glorified violence?Yes, that's why we've edited them so severely.
urroner Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Yes, that's why we've edited them so severely. And I'm sorry that some of that editing has happened. Kids should know that bad things happen to people, that fairy tale endings don't happen all that often.
Lachoneus Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Several ideas within the body of President Beck's talk conflict with our inspiration and experience.Someone needs to double check the source of their inspiration.
Drewm777 Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Interesting, I know some of those people, one is in my ward.I hope and pray she isn't as dumb as the petition is.
Drewm777 Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 I sent them an email as follows:I think what you are doing is wrong. You claim inspiration for it. I suggest you carefully look to see where that inspiration comes from. Sister Beck spoke the truth. I'm sorry that so many people have been beguiled to sign such a piece of rubbish. You are well on the road to apostasy if you don't repent. You should be glad I'm not your ecclesiastical leader.Sincerely,Andrew MillerI encourage you to also express your distaste with what they're doing by emailing them at : whatwomenknow(AT)gmail.com
Drewm777 Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Maybe we can start a petition here against them just to be a pain in the donkey
Buckeye Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 A little hunting revealed the following:1) The website was created Nov 10, and last edited Nov 16. Betterwhois [the information was publicly available but was removed by request]Scary what one can find on the internet.
juliann Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 I sent them an email as follows:I encourage you to also express your distaste with what they're doing by emailing them at : whatwomenknow(AT)gmail.comSheesh...don't do that Their problem is they demand tolerance for this great diversity they represent...which obviously does not include anyone who thinks differently...and they reinforce it by encouraging people to sign a creed. Why show up brandishing the same intolerance? It should be a topic for discussion and nothing more.
Drewm777 Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 I can't believe any sisters would be crazy enough to sign such a documentSheesh...don't do that Their problem is they demand tolerance for this great diversity they represent...which obviously does not include anyone who thinks differently...and they reinforce it by encouraging people to sign a creed. Why show up brandishing the same intolerance? It should be a topic for discussion and nothing more.I have no tolerance for someone who criticizes the Lord's anointed while claiming to be His. They are heretics and should be cast out. They are tares and will be burned.
juliann Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 People, these are Satan's ways to GET YOU! Can't YOU SEE?Stop screaming and hauling in satan. You are looking more and more like a troll.
juliann Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Fascinating. Thanks for that help.I can't believe any sisters would be crazy enough to sign such a documentI have no tolerance for someone who criticizes the Lord's anointed while claiming to be His. They are heretics and should be cast out. They are tares and will be burned.Oh, please. They are good women with strong opinions..they only err in trying to stamp out other good women with strong opinions. The crime here is bad rhetoric but you are making them look rather restrained.
rpn Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 I was inspired by the talk when I heard it originally. But when I read it, I was concerned about the nurturing=cleaning correlation.I thought the letter/petition is off the deep end. And since I am aware that it is being lauded by those who claim less than full fidelity to the church, seems to me to be at least naive for any faithful member to sign it.
Teancum Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Someone needs to double check the source of their inspiration.So how do you know your inspiration is correct and theirs is not?
Teancum Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 I sent them an email as follows:I encourage you to also express your distaste with what they're doing by emailing them at : whatwomenknow(AT)gmail.comThat was a pretty intolerant thing to send. I am sure they are glad you are not their ecclesiastical leader. I hope you are not anyone's. Why can't people disagree with what sister Beck said? Is the Church to narrow for diversity and varying points of view? Do you think a woman who wants a career and may delay children is bad and evil? Is she less faithful then one who decides to have lots of kids soon? Can't a woman chose? I don't see these women arguing that woman who want a more "traditional role is something less the faithful. But Sister Beck certainly implied it or even said it. Why are so many here ready to give anyone the boot that does not toe the line the way they, in their narrow minded little view, sees the Church. This needs to change. I thought much of what the women said in this letter a bit strange and much I did not agree with. Some I did. But I am not so up tight that I want to throw them out as flaming apostates. I am not sure what motivates those of you who do. Are you scared or what?
Teancum Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Sheesh...don't do that Their problem is they demand tolerance for this great diversity they represent...which obviously does not include anyone who thinks differently...and they reinforce it by encouraging people to sign a creed. Why show up brandishing the same intolerance? It should be a topic for discussion and nothing more.Oh I don't know. Are they being intolerant of Sister Beck? Did they call her names, threaten here, call for her removal. All they did was essentially say "Hey, we did not really like your talk and her is why we did not like it and here are some things we did not like...and so on. As for signing they simply ask for like minded persons to sign it. Big deal.
Teancum Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Fascinating. Thanks for that help.I can't believe any sisters would be crazy enough to sign such a documentI have no tolerance for someone who criticizes the Lord's anointed while claiming to be His. They are heretics and should be cast out. They are tares and will be burned.God forbid that a woman should think for herself and express her opinion. Crazy women!!! So Drew wants to give the boot to anyone who Drew thinks is not in line. I hope you never have the power to give the boot. It is quite a complex and difficult task to be a judge in Israel and decide who should and should not be cast out when things come up. Really this is a small thing. My guess is most of these women have quite strong testimonies and are probably active pillars of their respective wards.
jwhitlock Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 I was inspired by the talk when I heard it originally. But when I read it, I was concerned about the nurturing=cleaning correlation.I thought the letter/petition is off the deep end. And since I am aware that it is being lauded by those who claim less than full fidelity to the church, seems to me to be at least naive for any faithful member to sign it.I didn't make the connection of nurturing=cleaning in the talk. The particular people / culture / poverty level she was talking about appeared to be more of a specific example of personal dedication to show respect in their particular situation.I did not detect a tone that implied excessive cleanliness is absolutely necessary in all situations - which is what the website was trying to claim.
Teancum Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Oh, please. They are good women with strong opinions..they only err in trying to stamp out other good women with strong opinions. The crime here is bad rhetoric but you are making them look rather restrained.Amen!
juliann Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 So how do you know your inspiration is correct and theirs is not?I dont' think Lachoneus was claiming inspiration. Their inspiration is not correct according to LDS standards because they are trying to speak for individual families. The biggest problem with the statement itself is its lack of internal consistency.They mention the low wages of women workers and then go on to demand cheap high quality daycare. Well...who provides that? Underpaid women! I found the whole thing relentlessly elitest. And to borrow their logic...if they have to be told they are diverse they probably aren't. I didn't take to Sis. Beck's reference to the neatly groomed child, either...but I like what they have done less. It is demeaning to the non-elite. They are not supposed to worry about looking good. What is with that? We all want to look good because it makes us feel good...not to mention enticing the opposite sex, a rather important biological function. But women who "haul water" aren't supposed to share the same human drive because they are, well...poor? That is insulting. So is the mention of the different races of adopted babies, it has an unnecessary "my best friend is black" ring to it. This whole thing falls into the same trap of the original movement...belittle men's use of power...and then instead of solving the problem by getting rid of the behavior they just want to have more of it. There is no place in our religion for a public fight over "power". It just doesn't go together.
juliann Posted November 18, 2007 Posted November 18, 2007 Oh I don't know. Are they being intolerant of Sister Beck? Did they call her names, threaten here, call for her removal. All they did was essentially say "Hey, we did not really like your talk and her is why we did not like it and here are some things we did not like...and so on. As for signing they simply ask for like minded persons to sign it. Big deal.Like it or not, when it gets to the point of soliciting a following it is a big deal. Frankly, I think using the murder rap under the guise of criticizing Sis. Beck was worse than intolerant. And yes...they are making Sis. Beck an offender for a word, that is intolerant and inconsistent with their message of peace and good will toward all women. They lecture on the importance of sharing "mutual imperfections" and then create petitions based on a few words she uttered? I think it is a sad state of affairs for anyone who wants respect for women.
charity's child Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 My guess is most of these women have quite strong testimonies and are probably active pillars of their respective wards.I don't know. Speaking ill of the Lord's anointed is a pretty strong testimony killer. And if they're pillars, heaven help the ward when they crumble.
Buckeye Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 My guess is most of these women have quite strong testimonies and are probably active pillars of their respective wards.Actually, there is a thread on this same topic on postmo. A poster there says he recognizes names as being former members.
Garden Girl Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 I think there is nothing wrong with our LDS women being diverse, and choosing their actions at different points in their life, within the parameters of their situation and the restored gospel. This type of diversity can be discussed and hopefully we learn from each other ideas and experiences. What I take exception to is a small? group of sisters writing up a "petition" to be signed that not only ridicules Pres Beck's ideas and counsel, but goes even deeper and broader in opposition to counsel from the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve, etc.Then to invite women to take sides by signing the petition is to pit women of the Church against each other. Those that sign against those that do not... I saw some truth in a few aspects of the petition of course, but overall to me it was out of line. I am a strong Latter-Day Saint woman, with strong views and opinions on many things inside and outside of the Church. I welcome other sisters' ideas... we are not lock step... but this "petition" is not the way to go...The Garden Girl
Lachoneus Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 So how do you know your inspiration is correct and theirs is not? Because I made no claim to inspiration, your question makes no sense.When two people make opposing statements (these women claim Sister Beck spoke contrary to them) and do so as a result of claimed inspiration ("our inspiration"), then the two people are getting their inspiration from two different sources. In such cases it is advisable to double check the source.
koakaipo Posted November 19, 2007 Posted November 19, 2007 Well, here's something that will be interesting to watch.Right now there aren't alot of signatures. And yet, it seems pretty clear that a sizeable number of women for different reasons weren't that into Sis. Beck's talk.And yet, when you read the petition point for point, it's sorta like looking at a bill that is suppossed to be for one thing-and yet there's some stuff that was also included that have much more broad reaching impilications than Beck's actual talk. So, it would be interesting to see if people would actually relate less to the talk(those who didn't like it) or relate less to this petition actually. IF they even hear about it at all. I doubt I would if it wasn't for this board for instance.I still think it's more schmaltzy than anything though and people are only giving more ammo when they overreact to it like some are on this thread.
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