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Word Of Wisdom And Recommends


Lamanite

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Word of Wisdom - Section 89- And yes I'm being completely serious.

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

(If you do this one you can't get a recommend)

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

(I'm not sure if this is saying that it's ok as long as I brew my own?)

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

(It's ok if I use bath and body works though instead of smirnoffs?)

8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

(Can't get a recommend if your doing this one. However, BY and his son Brigham Jr. were both still chewing in the 1860's. Brigham actually quit 2 years before his son went on a mission) See "Letters of Brigham Young"

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

(Pretty sure you can't get a recommend if you're violating this one. I believe we interpret this to mean coffee and tea)

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man--

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

(I've got some Rasta friends who interpret this a little different. Not really sure what this means for me.)

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

(not sure why we can COMPLETELY disobey this one and still get a recommend)

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

(I don't know if vs. 15 is referring to vs14. If so ????)

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground--

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

(Man can only eat wheat with no corn or oats or rye or barley?)(What if I eat corn can I still get a recommend?)

Any help?

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Just as much as we don't need to add the abuse of robotussin to the word of wisdom to know it's wrong and it will prevent us from getting a recommend, could the same case be made against all the thousands of men and women who abuse food and allow themselves to atrophy to the point of diabetes, high cholesterol, and heart disease? Should we take their recommends?

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Just as much as we don't need to add the abuse of robotussin to the word of wisdom to know it's wrong and it will prevent us from getting a recommend, could the same case be made against all the thousands of men and women who abuse food and allow themselves to atrophy to the point of diabetes, high cholesterol, and heart disease? Should we take their recommends?

Apparently "we" shouldn't, as it hasn't been directed as such. :P

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Word of Wisdom - Section 89- And yes I'm being completely serious.

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

(If you do this one you can't get a recommend)

Yep.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

(I'm not sure if this is saying that it's ok as long as I brew my own?)

make all the grape juice you want, just don't ferment it.

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

(It's ok if I use bath and body works though instead of smirnoffs?)

Someone has told me that alcohol can be used for cleaning yourself, but I have yet to find this actually being done in times of old. But this is what this is reffering to.

8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

(Can't get a recommend if your doing this one. However, BY and his son Brigham Jr. were both still chewing in the 1860's. Brigham actually quit 2 years before his son went on a mission) See "Letters of Brigham Young"

During the time of BY, the WoW were not required for temple worthiness.

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

(Pretty sure you can't get a recommend if you're violating this one. I believe we interpret this to mean coffee and tea)

Correct.

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man--

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

(I've got some Rasta friends who interpret this a little different. Not really sure what this means for me.)

Basically, the list has changed from waht we cannot use to what we can use. He is starting at the bottom of the food pyramid. Grains are a good thing.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

(not sure why we can COMPLETELY disobey this one and still get a recommend)

I can't explain why you can ignore this and yet still be considered temple worthy. However, that is just how it is. If you were to follow this you are temple worthy anyhow.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

(I don't know if vs. 15 is referring to vs14. If so ????)

He is just stating again, grains, vegis, stuff like this == good, meats == not so good, but not exactly bad either.

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground--

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

(Man can only eat wheat with no corn or oats or rye or barley?)(What if I eat corn can I still get a recommend?)

The funny thing about the WoW is that it is not really left up to our decision as to what they mean. This is left up to the church leaders and then their understanding is what we have to obey. These final two verses you have quoted here can be read as you have put it; that mankind should eat wheat only, and the corn is for ox, oats for horses, barley for everything else, or what ever. It can be interpreted many ways. The real question you are asking is this:

What does it mean to obey the WoW? Simple: No illegal drugs, no tobacco, no alcohol, no tea, no coffee. Do this and you are good to go. How do you get that from what you just read? Read, ponder, pray. If you want to interpret it and go from that angle (which many have argued here), you are on your own path, and not the path of the church. Hope this helps. The whys and why nots are answered because the church leaders say so, and if you believe the BoM to be true, then their understanding of these scriptures are also true.

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This is a quote from Ruben J. Clark (as cited in the Autumn 1981 issue of Dialogue -- A fantastic issue regarding the WoW).

"...the Church cannot change the laws of God. They stand immutable. We may change the rules; we may say that a drunkard... [or] he who drinks tea and coffee may go into the temple. These rules we may change. But we cannot change the biological law that he who uses narcotics must pay the penalty somehow, somewhere, sometime...."

Right now, the rules are Alcohol, Tobacco, Coffee, & Tea. Maybe one day the rules will be changed to allow the "drunkard" to go to the temple, and the person who eats too much meat can't. But for now, 'dems 'da rules.

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Just as much as we don't need to add the abuse of robotussin to the word of wisdom to know it's wrong and it will prevent us from getting a recommend, could the same case be made against all the thousands of men and women who abuse food and allow themselves to atrophy to the point of diabetes, high cholesterol, and heart disease? Should we take their recommends?

Being fat does not change one,s personality or demeaner of thought, On the other hand chemicals

alter our thinking, personality, courage,demeaner, And make us do and say things we never

would have other wise.

:P

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Ah, point taken. (you're overwieght aren't you?) I'm just kidding.

haha

Seriously, though, people ought to take better care of their mortal bodies, though. Myself included. As far as temple worthiness, everyone has to eat, some people are better at it than others. No one has to smoke or drink alcohol or abuse drugs, though. Add in factors such as genetic disposition to weight gain, pregnancy in women, etc. the problems with the BMI, etc. and you have a situation we apparently need to worry about ourselves.

Parenthetically, to jadams, I believe being overweight can and does alter thoughts.

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Problem is the commandments not to take things are easy to judge so we make those prime candidates for which officials in the Church can disallow you from going into the Temple. The meats, grains, and fruits are up to the individual.

Personally, I think if you eat beef and pork as the staple of every meal you probably should not answer yes when asked if you keep the Word of Wisdom.

You see middle-aged people who can't run more than a foot without being weary and who can't walk to the refrigerator from the couch and not get faint and somehow they're in the Temple. That's between them and their God I guess.

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Word of Wisdom - Section 89- And yes I'm being completely serious.

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

(If you do this one you can't get a recommend)

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

(I'm not sure if this is saying that it's ok as long as I brew my own?)

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

(It's ok if I use bath and body works though instead of smirnoffs?)

8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

(Can't get a recommend if your doing this one. However, BY and his son Brigham Jr. were both still chewing in the 1860's. Brigham actually quit 2 years before his son went on a mission) See "Letters of Brigham Young"

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

(Pretty sure you can't get a recommend if you're violating this one. I believe we interpret this to mean coffee and tea)

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man--

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

(I've got some Rasta friends who interpret this a little different. Not really sure what this means for me.)

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

(not sure why we can COMPLETELY disobey this one and still get a recommend)

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

(I don't know if vs. 15 is referring to vs14. If so ????)

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground--

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

(Man can only eat wheat with no corn or oats or rye or barley?)(What if I eat corn can I still get a recommend?)

Any help?

Which one of these commandments sound scientific?

I say none. WoW is used exclusively for control and coercion of masses to strenghten the bond between Church and individual.

Drinking hot drinks could save many lives then, but nobody could get a clue that boiled water killed microbes.

Drinking coffee, tea, wine, tequila, whiskey will not hurt anybody anymore than carrying that excessive weight which the leaders fail to talk about.

WoW belongs to the individual. God cannot save a self-destructive behavior.

Making rules about them pushes people to hypocrisy.

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12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

(not sure why we can COMPLETELY disobey this one and still get a recommend)

Welcome to today's edition of "the WoW according to HSR".

If you grab an 1835 edition D&C and look on page 208, paragraph 2, you'll see many commas are missing and a different sentence structure.

"Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I the Lord have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving. Nevertheless, they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me, that they should not be used only in times of winter or of cold, or famine."

Check it out: "it is pleasing unto me, that they should not be used only in times of winter or of cold, or famine."

Which means "Ya know how some people believe that meat should only be used in times of winter/cold/famine? Well, that belief is not pleasing unto me. What is pleasing unto me, is when I see people eating beasties and birdies all year round."

If you want to talk 'sparingly', you have to understand what the word means. It means "eat with a mind to how much is left over when you're done".

Evidence: I read Laura Ingalls Wilder "Little House" series of books - set in the early 1800's. It tracks their family across states, through good times and bad, famine and plenty. Pa Wilder often had supper guests quite often. In times of plenty, he'd tell the guest "Tuck in, there's plenty to spare!" The following paragraphs would then go on to describe the copious amounts of food everyone would shovel into themselves until they could shovel no more. In leaner times, Pa would indicate times had not blessed them with quite so much bounty, and everyone would eat less. During the big winter, where the whole town almost starved to death, each member of the family eventually ate only a single johhnycake each day - and Pa still fed the cows. Because they'd need the cows next year. Pa wasn't about to kill a cow, until there truly was nothing left to eat in the town.

That's what "sparingly" meant to 1830's frontier America - cram yourself to the hilt in times of plenty, tighten your belts a few notches in sparse times.

If you want to point out LDS hypocracy in regards to the WoW in modern times, you need to focus on the words "prudence" and "thanksgiving". It isn't prudent to be morbidly obese due to overeating. One is hardly thanking God for blessing them with a body, when they abuse it by having their throat muscles be the best exercised of all.

Just my opinion.

HSR

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Drinking coffee, tea, wine, tequila, whiskey will not hurt anybody anymore than carrying that excessive weight which the leaders fail to talk about.

We all know of the very high statistics of innocents that are killed each year by people who are driving while fat. And although it wasn't on your list, let's not forget about the hurt that second hand fatness does too.

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Which one of these commandments sound scientific?

Which of any commandments must "sound scientific?"(whatever that means.)

WoW is used exclusively for control and coercion of masses to strenghten the bond between Church and individual.

Yes, it is all about power and control. Just like traffic laws, those evil things. [hint: not all commandments or laws are about "control and coercion."]

Drinking hot drinks could save many lives then, but nobody could get a clue that boiled water killed microbes.

Drinking coffee, tea, wine, tequila, whiskey will not hurt anybody anymore than carrying that excessive weight which the leaders fail to talk about.

How many accidents are caused by "fat driving"? Just one example of what happens when you compare apples to oranges. (Or in this case, maybe, twinkie's to ho-ho's.) *aw, nuts. Looks like Steussy beat me to the punch. The Hawaiian Punch.*

WoW belongs to the individual. God cannot save a self-destructive behavior.

Making rules about them pushes people to hypocrisy.

I agreed with the first half, then disagreed with the last part. Everyone, in their own special way, is a hypocrit by your definition, which seems to be "if you believe something and go against it even once, you are in totality, a hypocrite."

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We all know of the very high statistics of innocents that are killed each year by people who are driving while fat. And although it wasn't on your list, let's not forget about the hurt that second hand fatness does too.

Secondhand cookies have probably taken half a dozen years off my life.

Not that I'm turning them down.

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And finally, I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may [break the Word of Wisdom]; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them. (Mosiah 4:29)
Being so many ways to be in non-compliance the Church has opted to move away from what might be a very hazy line to a very measurable test: coffee, tea, tobacco. It becomes a kind of litmus test. Imperfect? Certainly. But perhaps less imperfect than wandering the hazy line of "am I really obeying the Word of Wisdom adequately"?
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Secondhand cookies have probably taken half a dozen years off my life.

Not that I'm turning them down.

Repent!

[...]they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me, that they should not be used only in times of winter or of cold, or famine."

Do you happen to know when/why the punctuation, etc. was changed to the current version?

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Just to rehash a couple of cliches I've grown up with. First, some think the WoW is a means of control. Friends used to say to me, "man, your church doesn't let you do anything." Ulimately, the WoW sets one free. Who has more control, the smoke-fiend who is always jonesing for that next cig or the alcoholic who gets the shakes? Or perhaps the one who has true control over what they accept into their bodies and is free from such addiction. While the WoW seems fairly restrictive (and it is) ultimately it gives us control over our bodies that many others do not enjoy.

The other cliche is the story about the woman who told her bishop that she wanted to keep drinking coffee and she did not believe that God would keep her out of heaven for such a minor thing such as drinking coffee. His answer was "yes, you are right, the Lord will not keep you out of heaven for drinking coffee, but he will for disobeying His commandments."

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>> 6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

> (I'm not sure if this is saying that it's ok as long as I brew my own?)

This verse says nothing about brewing.

And no, it's not saying it's okay.

>> 8 And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

> (Can't get a recommend if your doing this one. However, BY and his son Brigham Jr. were both still chewing in the 1860's. Brigham actually quit 2 years before his son went on a mission) See "Letters of Brigham Young"

The Word of Wisdom is interesting because it was originally not a commandment. It became so later.

>> 9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

> (Pretty sure you can't get a recommend if you're violating this one. I believe we interpret this to mean coffee and tea)

Yes.

>> 13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

> (not sure why we can COMPLETELY disobey this one and still get a recommend)

Yes, I've thought of that, too.

> (Man can only eat wheat with no corn or oats or rye or barley?)(What if I eat corn can I still get a recommend?)

Yes, you can still get a recommend.

-Smac

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The other cliche is the story about the woman who told her bishop that she wanted to keep drinking coffee and she did not believe that God would keep her out of heaven for such a minor thing such as drinking coffee. His answer was "yes, you are right, the Lord will not keep you out of heaven for drinking coffee, but he will for disobeying His commandments."

It is a cliche but it is also a true story. It happened in Idaho and it was a successful businessman in the Church who drank coffee because of how many early-morning meetings he had. He came into a Stake Presidency Meeting as they finished and asked for a signature as he was going to the Temple tomorrow. He asked the Stake President to give him the interview really quick. Both counselors were getting up to leave and the man insisted they didn't have to go for the interview. The First Counselor of that Stake Presidency was my Mission President and gave me his first-hand account of the story.

The story's ending was different: "but he probably will because you are too prideful to accept his commandments and obey them." This is from a hasty transcription I made in a book so it may not be word-perfect.

It could, of course, have happened similarly to other people.

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"Being fat does not change one,s personality or demeaner of thought.", On the other hand chemicals

alter our thinking, personality, courage,demeaner,..."

I think that being fat does change one's personality, demeanor and thoughts (though it may be caused by the overeating rather than the overweight). And I have a testimony that being fat interferes with one's ability to serve God and to receive inspiration from the Holy Ghost.

By the way, this is the first time I read it after understanding about how mad cow disease is spread when animal entrails are included in animal feed. Notice the warning that animals should only eat grains?

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"Being fat does not change one,s personality or demeaner of thought.", On the other hand chemicals

alter our thinking, personality, courage,demeaner,..."

I think that being fat does change one's personality, demeanor and thoughts (though it may be caused by the overeating rather than the overweight). And I have a testimony that being fat interferes with one's ability to serve God and to receive inspiration from the Holy Ghost.

By the way, this is the first time I read it after understanding about how mad cow disease is spread when animal entrails are included in animal feed. Notice the warning that animals should only eat grains?

Thank you! It's so true. Not just the overeating, but the fat does change one's demeanor...the old stereotype of a jolly fat person is so phony...when I was fat, I was miserable, which made me rude and cranky to my family, unwilling to think about anyone but me. I couldn't be of service to the Lord when all I could think about was my own discomfort of whatever kind (out of breath, indigestion, gotta get some of that whatever to eat, yada yada yada). It wasn't until I got my food addiction out of the way that I was finally able to be sane and loving to my family.

As far as some of the other posts, I'd also like to know when the commas were added to the verse about meat, especially since my experience is that meat and fatty foods in general are among the most addictive stuff around...right up there with drugs. Just try taking away somebody's cheese, and see what happens. One particular doctor has postulated that there are some chemical things going on that make cheese as addictive as heroin. (John McDougall, a heart specialist...see www.vegsource.com for some information on this and other dairy being addictive). Don't know if that's true or not, but I sure think that there's some real wisdom in the Word of Wisdom as it is currently in the D&C.

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One needs to remember that there are multiple reasons for weight gain and once a person has reached a certain weight, it doesn't take much food to keep them there unfortunately.

My weight issue is probably from overeating, but since I have only gained weight (besides when pregnant) when given certain drugs that increase my sense of hunger and decrease my ability to put the fork down and when I'm not on those particular drugs (and unfortunately from what I've heard, my reaction to these types of drugs is not unique), I am otherwise maintaining or losing weight. The choice I am often given is between taking these drugs and gaining weight and not sleeping (and I mean literally not sleeping as I was down to 20 minutes a couple of times a day before getting treatment).

Should I be deprived of a temple recommend because I am currently overweight? Am I actually violating the WoW (I eat very healthy foods in general and by choice when available, btw, even if at times I eat too much of them).

What about those who are depressed? Many lose ability to control eating due to anxiety and depression and other mental dysfunction. Some aren't even really overeating, but rather make poor choices of what they eat because it's too hard for them to take the time to think and plan ahead.

Should they be deprived of a temple recommend?

Weight control is often a result of internal mechanisms that are hard to identify. Drinking alcohol, smoking and coffee and tea consumption are more often externally determined (as this is often started as a social behaviour).

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