Holy Week- Do Mormons celebrate/observe it or not?

[Notatbm]

7 hours ago, bluebell said:

On 3/7/2026 at 1:28 PM, Notatbm said:

 

It's kind of your MO in your posts but as far as this thread is concerned, you implied that the church teaches or believes that the Catholic church is the "whore of all the earth" spoken of in the scriptures when we don't.  We have had leaders who associated the two in the distant past, but the church has refuted that. 

It was taught in Mormon doctrine (the book), I was taught this growing up and I have heard it over the pulpit numerous times .. the great and abominable church. Everyone knows … or at least we did then it was the Catholics and many times they were called out specifically. I recall it being brought up probably even more with all the child sex scandal. That was evidence it was truly the great and abominable church. Gee what other church now has the same problem?? Hmm what does that make it?
 

Do you remember this teaching?:

“LUCIFER: Then with that enmity I will take the treasures of the earth, and with gold and silver I will buy up armies and navies, popes and priests, and reign with blood and horror on the earth!”

Was the church teaching false doctrine in the temple??? 
 

7 hours ago, bluebell said:

  You implied that the church believes that Everyone else is “playing church” a

Name one church that also has the proper authority, ordinances, and so on that can facilitate one’s trip to the celestial kingdom… name one besides the Mormon church that can get you there… hint all churches other than the Mormon church are false. We have always been taught that. Their blessings, baptisms, weddings etc are all just good ideas performed without any authority from god. Hence the playing church thing. Thats what Wilcox was saying. You can go see for yourself the video is out there. 
 

funny how he apologized for his  shuck and jiving imitation of a black person asking a question, but I don’t recall him apologizing for saying all the other religions are playing church…similar versions of the talk have been presented by him for several years to the youth and ysa. 
 

 

Edited March 9 by Notatbm

[Notatbm]

On 3/6/2026 at 5:27 PM, Calm said:

 To say we don’t celebrate Easter is ignoring all the evidence we do, imo.  

 

1- cfr where I said we don’t celebrate Easter. That is a straight up lie. I never said that

[Tony uk]

Rather than get involved in any discussion in this post, I just wanted to add some information, which people here may already be aware of.

In the 1960s, the Catholic Church held the Second Vatican Council. One of the many things to occur as a result of this Council. Was for the Catholic Church to become more acceptable of other Christian Churches, and aside from Doctirnal matters. Hence, Pope John Paul 2, the Polish Pope, holding a gathering at Assisi of various Christian Churches, and also other Faiths. To my knowledge I don't think the LDS were not there, for whatever reason. 

Although differences, I would hope. That we could all offer the hand of friendship to each other, rather than offering condemnation. 

Edited March 9 by Tony uk

[webbles]

7 hours ago, Notatbm said:

It was taught in Mormon doctrine (the book), I was taught this growing up and I have heard it over the pulpit numerous times .. the great and abominable church. Everyone knows … or at least we did then it was the Catholics and many times they were called out specifically. I recall it being brought up probably even more with all the child sex scandal. That was evidence it was truly the great and abominable church. Gee what other church now has the same problem?? Hmm what does that make it?

The 1st edition of Mormon Doctrine said that and was practically banned by the leadership (McConkie was not an apostle at the time).  It was not allowed to be printed past the first printing.  McConkie did somehow get permission to do a 2nd edition with massive changes.  Basically everything about the Catholic church being the abominable church was stripped out of it.  So, yes there are people who believe and teach that the Catholic church is the abominable church but it is definitely not doctrine.

[Jay 4 Christ]

On 3/7/2026 at 12:15 PM, Notatbm said:

Oh my bad… he was a “general officer” in a position of very high influence with the youth… esp juvenile male priesthood holders. 

that said he did apologize, but only for the racist commentary. The church was cool with the rest of his diatribe. The whole playing church thing is not really all that controversial in Mormon circles. Mormons have forever maintained that no other churches ordinances are valid in the least and I think that was the point  Brad was making. In fact all other churches are an abomination and are in apostasy.

I'm researching the Mormon church, can you give me a link to the church's general authority's statement that everyone else is "playing" church?

 

I can understand why the Mormon church feels that all other churches are merely "playing" church if they believe that no other church has divine authority.

[Notatbm]

52 minutes ago, webbles said:

The 1st edition of Mormon Doctrine said that and was practically banned by the leadership (McConkie was not an apostle at the time).  It was not allowed to be printed past the first printing.  McConkie did somehow get permission to do a 2nd edition with massive changes.  Basically everything about the Catholic church being the abominable church was stripped out of it.  So, yes there are people who believe and teach that the Catholic church is the abominable church but it is definitely not doctrine.

What about the temple script re the popes? Mckonkie didn’t just make this all up out of thin air. It was taught and continued to be until 1990. Long enough for the entire q15 to be taught and believe it to include the newest member. Think they all changed their mind overnight?

Edited March 9 by Notatbm

[Notatbm]

2 hours ago, Jay 4 Christ said:

I'm researching the Mormon church, can you give me a link to the church's general authority's statement that everyone else is "playing" church?

2 hours ago, Jay 4 Christ said:

 

I can understand why the Mormon church feels that all other churches are merely "playing" church if they believe that no other church has divine authority.

starting at about 37 min thru 45 ish

brad is a pretty good speaker and is very popular in Utah in terms of live speaking engagements. This is at a tri-stake fireside g for youth so this is probably in a stake center  ( largest of the regular meetinghouses we have) and likely was full so  anywhere from 5-700 people. I find most church speakers and topics mind numbing boring but he can keep a crowd awake and off their phones. 
 

id listen to the whole thing. 
 

edit/add commentary: many will say brads comments don’t reflect the beliefs of the members. Possibly, but one must consider when making that statement that he has been giving this talk for years and to thousands of youth and young adults. Their leaders are there too. If it’s soo controversial and no one believes that stuff how come no one reported him till this video came out?? 
 

well two answers: 

1- he was reported and no one had a problem with it

2- he wasn’t reported because talking like that is /was not controversial. 

 

 

Edited March 9 by Notatbm
Added comment at end

[bluebell]

9 hours ago, Notatbm said:

It was taught in Mormon doctrine (the book), I was taught this growing up and I have heard it over the pulpit numerous times .. the great and abominable church. Everyone knows … or at least we did then it was the Catholics and many times they were called out specifically. I recall it being brought up probably even more with all the child sex scandal. That was evidence it was truly the great and abominable church. Gee what other church now has the same problem?? Hmm what does that make it?
 

Do you remember this teaching?:

“LUCIFER: Then with that enmity I will take the treasures of the earth, and with gold and silver I will buy up armies and navies, popes and priests, and reign with blood and horror on the earth!”

Was the church teaching false doctrine in the temple??? 
 

Name one church that also has the proper authority, ordinances, and so on that can facilitate one’s trip to the celestial kingdom… name one besides the Mormon church that can get you there… hint all churches other than the Mormon church are false. We have always been taught that. Their blessings, baptisms, weddings etc are all just good ideas performed without any authority from god. Hence the playing church thing. Thats what Wilcox was saying. You can go see for yourself the video is out there. 
 

funny how he apologized for his  shuck and jiving imitation of a black person asking a question, but I don’t recall him apologizing for saying all the other religions are playing church…similar versions of the talk have been presented by him for several years to the youth and ysa. 
 

 

If you really were the active member that you claim to be, then you would know that all of these issues are very nuanced, and many (like the stuff in the refuted 'mormon doctrine' book, are historical at this point).  That you pretend they aren't nuanced is another example of the half truths you like to portray as whole fact in your posts. 

Either you know what you are doing, and should try to be more honest in your approach.  Or you don't know what you are doing because you don't know as much about our doctrine as you thought you did, and you should try to be more honest in your approach by admitting that.

Like mustardseed said, there's plenty for you to sincerely and honestly criticize and complain about if that's brings you joy.

 

[teddyaware]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If you really were the active member that you claim to be, then you would know that all of these issues are very nuanced, and many (like the stuff in the refuted 'mormon doctrine' book, are historical at this point).  That you pretend they aren't nuanced is another example of the half truths you like to portray as whole fact in your posts. 

Either you know what you are doing, and should try to be more honest in your approach.  Or you don't know what you are doing because you don't know as much about our doctrine as you thought you did, and you should try to be more honest in your approach by admitting that.

Like mustardseed said, there's plenty for you to sincerely and honestly criticize and complain about if that's brings you joy.

 

Doesn’t his screen name tell you all you need to know? He’s upfront about the fact that he’s ‘not a true blue Mormon,” which indicates he’s more a member of record rather than a devoted member in spirit. He has an ax to grind, so he’s here to vent.

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

If you really were the active member that you claim to be, then you would know that all of these issues are very nuanced, and many (like the stuff in the refuted 'mormon doctrine' book, are historical at this point).  That you pretend they aren't nuanced is another example of the half truths you like to portray as whole fact in your posts. 
 

I don’t recall any nuance at all. I have heard this repeatedly in church and in my home ( father was the stake pres) for my entire adolescent life. Seminary, Sunday school, priesthood all in the morridor. I have heard the whore of Babylon verbiage even as recent as the time the Rome temple being dedicated. Now unless all my leaders and the prophets and the temple script were all teaching false doctrine then so be it. It is more of a case of the church trying to play nice since it has realized it has so few friends in the world. When Mormons can team up with Catholics to discriminate against gays re “ non-traditional marriage” lol or petitioning courts to rule that churches don’t need to report child molesters then it is in the best interest of the church to quit talking trash about others. 

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Either you know what you are doing, and should try to be more honest in your approach.  Or you don't know what you are doing because you don't know as much about our doctrine as you thought you did, and you should try to be more honest in your approach by admitting that.

Like mustardseed said, there's plenty for you to sincerely and honestly criticize and complain about if that's brings you joy.

 

If you doubt my sincerity that’s on you. I just like to make sure people know how it is/was and my opinion on it. I suppose I can question your honesty or motivations in your posts , but I find that doing that just distracts from the discussion. 
 

while I was growing up Jerald and Sandra tanner were often called out by name and maligned because they openly criticized the church. It was usually said their criticism wasn’t true because they were anti-Mormon and plug your ears la la la.  Lo and behold all these years later they have largely been vindicated. The church just engaged in name calling to deflect from the discussion. 
 

the church would have done well to listen to them re the salamander letter. Instead the church got sucked up in that mess despite a whole slew  of “prophets” being involved and looked like a bunch of circus clowns once the truth came out. Should have at least listened. There probably would have been two less murders in salt lake that year if they had listened to the tanners. 
 

now we have a prophet who was the face of the church for that mess who went public to explain the validity of the letter to the members and then later had to admit the church was wrong and they got scammed. 
 

discernment?? I think not 

Edited March 9 by Notatbm

[Notatbm]

18 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Doesn’t his screen name tell you all you need to know? He’s upfront about the fact that he’s ‘not a true blue Mormon,” which indicates he’s more a member of record rather than a devoted member in spirit. He has an ax to grind, so he’s here to vent.

All the more reason to discount what I say… even if it’s true. 
 

gee who else said something like that?

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

What about the temple script re the popes? Mckonkie didn’t just make this all up out of thin air. It was taught and continued to be until 1990. Long enough for the entire q15 to be taught and believe it to include the newest member. Think they all changed their mind overnight?

It says "popes and priests".  So it isn't just focused on the Catholic church.  And that reference in the temple isn't talking about the abominable church.  It is talking about ways that Satan can influence us.  Were there popes that did bad things?  Yes, even Catholics acknowledge that.

Who are you referring to as "including the newest member"?  And I know that it was taught.  I remember discussing this with my Catholic friend when I was less than 10..  I'm saying that it wasn't doctrine and anytime it reached wide spread (such as Mormon Doctrine) it was pushed back.

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

while I was growing up Jerald and Sandra tanner were often called out by name and maligned because they openly criticized the church. It was usually said their criticism wasn’t true because they were anti-Mormon and plug your ears la la la.  Lo and behold all these years later they have largely been vindicated. The church just engaged in name calling to deflect from the discussion. 
 

the church would have done well to listen to them re the salamander letter. Instead the church got sucked up in that mess despite a whole slew  of “prophets” being involved and looked like a bunch of circus clowns once the truth came out. Should have at least listened. There probably would have been two less murders in salt lake that year if they had listened to the tanners. 

The Church never bought the Salamander letter.  Every time Hoffman attempted to sell it to the church, they declined.  They didn't find it valuable enough or worth the cost.  It was Steven F. Christensen who bought it, then had it authenticated, and then donated it to the church.  And even in the statement about it, the church was really wishy-washy but just said that they trust the experts who say it was authenticate.

Honestly, it is the Blessing of Joseph Smith III document that you should have brought up.  That episode looks more like the church trying to hide the document and it was also forged.  That would fit your argument better.

[Jay 4 Christ]

2 hours ago, Notatbm said:

starting at about 37 min thru 45 ish

brad is a pretty good speaker and is very popular in Utah in terms of live speaking engagements. This is at a tri-stake fireside g for youth so this is probably in a stake center  ( largest of the regular meetinghouses we have) and likely was full so  anywhere from 5-700 people. I find most church speakers and topics mind numbing boring but he can keep a crowd awake and off their phones. 
 

id listen to the whole thing. 
 

edit/add commentary: many will say brads comments don’t reflect the beliefs of the members. Possibly, but one must consider when making that statement that he has been giving this talk for years and to thousands of youth and young adults. Their leaders are there too. If it’s soo controversial and no one believes that stuff how come no one reported him till this video came out?? 
 

well two answers: 

1- he was reported and no one had a problem with it

2- he wasn’t reported because talking like that is /was not controversial. 

 

 

I'm still watching the video, and I have to admit that the way this guy instructs the audience, seems to be an attempt to turn thee youth into narcissists! The lesson he is that while Mormons have everything in terms of the gospel, other religions are making do with what's left over, the scraps. 

 

The lesson is that if you leave the church, you will not only have nothing but also find it difficult to be happy. 

 

I appreciate you suggesting this talk. Later on, I'll start a thread in the other forum about it.

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

It says "popes and priests".  So it isn't just focused on the Catholic church.  And that reference in the temple isn't talking about the abominable church.  It is talking about ways that Satan can influence us.  Were there popes that did bad things?  Yes, even Catholics acknowledge that.

Who are you referring to as "including the newest member"?  And I know that it was taught.  I remember discussing this with my Catholic friend when I was less than 10..  I'm saying that it wasn't doctrine and anytime it reached wide spread (such as Mormon Doctrine) it was pushed back.

If you have the pope, that is the Catholic Church. Unless you think the rank and file members run things there. If the devil owns the pope, what does that then make the Catholic Church? By extension it makes it a servant of the devil. I don’t believe that, but that’s what it means. 
 

the newest member of the q15. He went on his mission in 1989 which means he went thru the temple prior to the 1990 change. I am older than he is so I was taught that too. Was the prophet (s) wrong to have taught that? 

Edited March 9 by Notatbm

[Notatbm]

27 minutes ago, webbles said:

The Church never bought the Salamander letter.  Every time Hoffman attempted to sell it to the church, they declined.  They didn't find it valuable enough or worth the cost.  It was Steven F. Christensen who bought it, then had it authenticated, and then donated it to the church.  And even in the statement about it, the church was really wishy-washy but just said that they trust the experts who say it was authenticate.

I never said the church bought the letter.  They did take possession of it after it was purchased ( like u said) and once the contents of it got public, oaks had to go out and calm the masses and explain how it was validated as authentic. The prophets got suckered. 
 

 

27 minutes ago, webbles said:

Honestly, it is the Blessing of Joseph Smith III document that you should have brought up.  That episode looks more like the church trying to hide the document and it was also forged.  That would fit your argument better.

Thanks for the reference. I may use that another time. I learn something new every day. 

[Notatbm]

25 minutes ago, Jay 4 Christ said:

I'm still watching the video, and I have to admit that the way this guy instructs the audience, seems to be an attempt to turn thee youth into narcissists! The lesson he is that while Mormons have everything in terms of the gospel, other religions are making do with what's left over, the scraps. 

 

The lesson is that if you leave the church, you will not only have nothing but also find it difficult to be happy. 

 

I appreciate you suggesting this talk. Later on, I'll start a thread in the other forum about it.

Yep you are spot on. 
 

Mormon stories and radio free Mormon podcasts  also have extended discussions about it where they point at church doctrine, practices etc to explain where Brad gets his material and opinions. Very informative. The show hosts are /were lifelong Mormons and even a few apologists so their opinions and feedback are based on experience with being members of the church. 
 

 

https://radiofreemormon.org/2022/02/radio-free-mormon-233-the-brad-wilcox-imbroglio/

 

 

Edited March 9 by Notatbm

[Notatbm]

4 hours ago, Tony uk said:

Rather than get involved in any discussion in this post, I just wanted to add some information, which people here may already be aware of.

In the 1960s, the Catholic Church held the Second Vatican Council. One of the many things to occur as a result of this Council. Was for the Catholic Church to become more acceptable of other Christian Churches, and aside from Doctirnal matters. Hence, Pope John Paul 2, the Polish Pope, holding a gathering at Assisi of various Christian Churches, and also other Faiths. To my knowledge I don't think the LDS were not there, for whatever reason. 

Although differences, I would hope. That we could all offer the hand of friendship to each other, rather than offering condemnation. 

Oh the Mormon church and Catholics have been reaching out to each other. I do not deny that. The fact what was taught about Catholic Church and their creeds is what this whole thread was about. The Mormon church never did anything to celebrate Easter other than Easter Sunday services. All the rest of it was what everyone else did. The Mormon church does not observe Holy Week, yet now in the past few years they are talking up Palm Sunday and Holy Week. That was never a thing. The Mormon church is slowly taking up the creeds and traditions of the other churches which have been long taught are corrupt and false. 

Edited March 9 by Notatbm

[Tony uk]

Then I take it, your issue is with the Church of Jesus of Latter Day Saints not the Catholic Church.

Edited March 9 by Tony uk
Spelling error

[Notatbm]

30 minutes ago, Tony uk said:

Then I take it, your issue is with the Church of Jesus of Latter Day Saints not the Catholic Church.

Yes sir. Never had a beef with the Catholics 

[Tony uk]

10 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Yes sir. Never had a beef with the Catholics 

And as I have mentioned a few times on this Dialogue in previous posts. I have high regard for LdS. 👍

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Doesn’t his screen name tell you all you need to know? He’s upfront about the fact that he’s ‘not a true blue Mormon,” which indicates he’s more a member of record rather than a devoted member in spirit. He has an ax to grind, so he’s here to vent.

We have quite a few ex Mormons on the board who post with integrity. I don’t always agree with them, but I always respect their voices and appreciate their contributions here.

I agree that he’s angry and here to spread that anger around as much as he can, but just because he’s not a true believing latter day saint doesn’t mean he can’t be honest in his approach. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

Oh the Mormon church and Catholics have been reaching out to each other. I do not deny that. The fact what was taught about Catholic Church and their creeds is what this whole thread was about. The Mormon church never did anything to celebrate Easter other than Easter Sunday services. All the rest of it was what everyone else did. The Mormon church does not observe Holy Week, yet now in the past few years they are talking up Palm Sunday and Holy Week. That was never a thing. The Mormon church is slowly taking up the creeds and traditions of the other churches which have been long taught are corrupt and false. 

Are you suggesting that Palm Sunday is creedal?  I’m not sure I’m following your reasoning right. 

[Notatbm]

Just now, bluebell said:

creeds and traditions

Celebrating Palm Sunday is a tradition.. one Mormons never celebrated

[Notatbm]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

We have quite a few ex Mormons on the board who post with integrity. I don’t always agree with them, but I always respect their voices and appreciate their contributions here.

I agree that he’s angry and here to spread that anger around as much as he can, but just because he’s not a true believing latter day saint doesn’t mean he can’t be honest in his approach. 

You can always quit reading and responding to my posts if they upset you. As far as the honest or dishonest claim goes. Just because I don’t factor in every nuance doesn’t make a statement a lie. You need to make better efforts to prove me a liar instead of calling me that for not broadcasting every nuance. Nuance can go on ad infinitum. 
 

prove me a liar and I’ll concede it to you and I believe we have engaged in that manner in the past. Just know any statement that I have ever made here and was then asked for a cfr I have provided it.  True I can misunderstand things and after discussion in some  instances I have corrected or retracted my statement (s), but I do not knowingly lie in my posts. 
 

that said if you consider yourself a true Christian you best refrain from throwing out accusations of lies when out of all the times I have been accused of that on this board I do not recall a single instance where the accuser has been correct. I am open to correction in that assertion, but I believe every single instance of being accused of lying it was not true.

I cannot say the same of some other posters here.  Have called out a few for lying about statements I have made and in many instances do not reply or defend their statement. Some continue to do it without proving their position after being asked to. 
 

I’m pretty sure if I was repeatedly posting false material, making false statements and outright lying I would have been banned by now. 
 

Edited March 10 by Notatbm