LDS Venezuelan tells escape story

[Stargazer]

This seems to be topical.

https://youtu.be/YdaMAlNIYS4?si=3DJo-JsIK8ywcJzR

[The Nehor]

Glad the guy escaped. Not sure I like the bit at the end about this potentially leading to a temple. There is possibly going to be a lot of bloodshed on the way to that happening. I hope not. The US’s history of implementing regime changes is abysmal. I had hoped the days of this kind of gunboat diplomacy and topping foreign governments through military coercion were over.

[let’s roll]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Glad the guy escaped. Not sure I like the bit at the end about this potentially leading to a temple. There is possibly going to be a lot of bloodshed on the way to that happening. I hope not. The US’s history of implementing regime changes is abysmal. I had hoped the days of this kind of gunboat diplomacy and topping foreign governments through military coercion were over.

Lucky for us the French didn’t feel the same way.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Lucky for us the French didn’t feel the same way.

You are seriously trying to compare the current situation to French intervention in the American Revolutionary War? That is a stretch that would rip Plastic Man in half.

[let’s roll]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You are seriously trying to compare the current situation to French intervention in the American Revolutionary War? That is a stretch that would rip Plastic Man in half.

Maybe you can read up on it and let me know why you think the motivations of the French were so morally pristine.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Maybe you can read up on it and let me know why you think the motivations of the French were so morally pristine.

The French weren’t morally pristine. They were playing power politics. They supported the underdog to destabilize their enemy.

The decapitation strike at Venezuela seems to have the objective of looting the nation because that is what the guy who ordered it done talks about the most. There was no group of rebels seeking help from the United States and unlike the French intervention in that case the French were not seeking to control the United States as a puppet, weren’t looking to loot the USA’s natural resources, and weren’t doing it primarily due to naked imperialism.

Also we are supposed to be moving beyond imperialism. And the United States likes to position itself as morally and fundamentally different than other nations. We fail in that aspiration regularly but we at least pretend we believe in it. Is that being abandoned? I admit I will weep if it is but it might be for the best to give up the pretense if it is no longer even aspirational.

If leadership does decide to occupy Caracas and they resist the attack will we massacre the population and enslave the survivors and point to Roman’s policy when capturing a city that resists as justification?

Edited January 9 by The Nehor

[let’s roll]

On 1/8/2026 at 11:07 PM, The Nehor said:

There was no group of rebels seeking help from the United States

Millions of Venezuelans disagree with you.  I’ve had a chance to speak with scores of them.  They’re not rebels with muskets but they are as hungry for self determination as the colonists were and have pined for U.S. intervention for years.  They welcome U.S. involvement to augment their quest for self determination via a functioning democracy.  Since they haven’t seen any benefits from their countries natural resources for years, they welcome U.S. oil company investments to modernize and monetize those resources, knowing that such investment isn’t certain because of the history of instability of capitalism in Venezuela.

While your outlook is filled with a long list of horrible what ifs, Venezuelans see, for the first time in many years, a reason to hope for a better day for themselves and their country.  The next step for many of them is to see sufficient evidence of stability, civil and economic, to make moving back home a wise decision and most agree that the only way that will happen is with some level of continuing U.S. involvement.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, let’s roll said:

I’ve had a chance to speak with scores of them.

Just curious on how this happened?

Quote

economic, to make moving back home a wise decision 

Are they currently residents of the US?

[let’s roll]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Just curious on how this happened?

Are they currently residents of the US?

Most of the Venezuelans I’ve spoken to are living in Peru or were visiting Peru while living in Bolivia, Columbia or Ecuador.  Many of the   Venezuelans I’ve spoken to in the U.S. are relatives of the Venezuelans I met in Peru.  Part of my role in Peru was tracking the Church properties in Venezuela that were taken by the Venezuelan government, including being briefed by lawyers in Venezuela regarding political/government affairs in that country. 

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Most of the Venezuelans I’ve spoken to are living in Peru or were visiting Peru while living in Bolivia, Columbia or Ecuador.  Many of the   Venezuelans I’ve spoken to in the U.S. are relatives of the Venezuelans I met in Peru.  Part of my role in Peru was tracking the Church properties in Venezuela that were taken by the Venezuelan government, including being briefed by lawyers in Venezuela regarding political/government affairs in that country. 

Very interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Millions of Venezuelans disagree with you.  I’ve had a chance to speak with scores of them.  They’re not rebels with muskets but they are as hungry for self determination as the colonists were and have pined for U.S. intervention for years.  They welcome U.S. involvement to augment their quest for self determination via a functioning democracy.  Since they haven’t seen any benefits from their countries natural resources for years, they welcome U.S. oil company investments to modernize and monetize those resources, knowing that such investment isn’t certain because of the history of instability of capitalism in Venezuela.

While your outlook is filled with a long list of horrible what ifs, Venezuelans see, for the first time in many years, a reason to hope for a better day for themselves and their country.  The next step for many of them is to see sufficient evidence of stability, civil and economic, to make moving back home a wise decision and most agree that the only way that will happen is with some level of continuing U.S. involvement.

I’ve heard this song and dance before. The people of Iraq yearn for freedom. If we eliminate Saddam it will usher in a golden age. The people of Afghanistan all hate the Taliban If we take out their government they will build a brighter tomorrow as a US ally. The people of Vietnam dislike communism. If we help them defeat communism they will remain staunch allies against communist states. Add in rosy predictions for what toppling leftist leaning regimes all over the world during the Cold War would accomplish.

Many of the same politicians that justified Iraq in these same terms are using the same explanations. WHY DO WE KEEP BELIEVING THEM?

I’m sure many Venezuelans are hopeful. Will it be enough so that this violation of all of the norms of international law and looting the nation of Venezuela will go well? And why are we saber rattling with Colombia, Mexico, Cuba, and (sigh) Greenland at the same time? All this from a President who ran on not getting us into quagmires and burned allies and wrecked things trying to pull out. Also pulled out a lot of the benign stuff like all those US aid programs saving tens of thousands of lives. Why does the one intervention he really wants have to be in a resource rich nation while his public remarks are salivating over all that oil? At least in Iraq we pretended oil wasn’t one of the main factors.

The talk of liberation rings through all forms of imperialism. The British and the French loved these narratives. The United States really drank in all  this “enlightened” interventionist rhetoric from the worst president in US history. Yeah, I am still mad at you Woodrow Wilson! Your fault! Your condescending desire to be the messiah of world piece. You racist segregationist halfwit! You delusional wackjob! You primed the pump for over a century of “enlightened” interventionism! Without you probably no authoritarian communism. No Nazis, no fascists, no Soviets. YOU FOOL!!!!!!!!!! Yes, I am saying Teddy Roosevelt should have gotten a third term.

Edit: To be clear I hope I am wrong. I hope that despite all the incompetence involved in this endeavor that somehow the regime is put down and a democratic government installed that will avoid being looted by US oil companies and navigate a course leading to a brighter future for the people of Venezuela. I just think the odds of this happening are incredibly low.

Edited January 11 by The Nehor

[longview]

22 hours ago, let’s roll said:

While your outlook is filled with a long list of horrible what ifs, Venezuelans see, for the first time in many years, a reason to hope for a better day for themselves and their country.  The next step for many of them is to see sufficient evidence of stability, civil and economic, to make moving back home a wise decision and most agree that the only way that will happen is with some level of continuing U.S. involvement.

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I’m sure many Venezuelans are hopeful.

Let us also hope the Persians that are rising in great masses protesting the oppressive tyranny of the Iranian mullahs and fighting the threats of the Revolutionary Guards will ultimately prevail. May it return to the elegance of Iran like in the 60's and 70's. So sad that a thriving and liberated Lebanon was so thoroughly squashed by islamo-fascists.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, longview said:

Let us also hope the Persians that are rising in great masses protesting the oppressive tyranny of the Iranian mullahs and fighting the threats of the Revolutionary Guards will ultimately prevail. May it return to the elegance of Iran like in the 60's and 70's. So sad that a thriving and liberated Lebanon was so thoroughly squashed by islamo-fascists.

I wouldn’t cast it as Persians vs. Iranians. I would like to see the regime in Iran fall but the current US talk about intervention isn’t helping and I wish we would butt out. Few things give a faltering regime legitimacy than opposing an intrusive foreign power. I worry intervention even if in support of the protests may doom the protests.

“We live in a world in which you can talk all you want about international niceties and everything else. But we live in a world, in the real world … that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power,” - Stephen Miller

"These are the iron laws of the world. We're a superpower. And under President Trump, we are going to conduct ourselves as a superpower.” - Stephen Miller

This kind of rhetoric has me worried about what they will do next. The United States largely prospered under the status quo system of restraining aggression. Now we are the aggressors and think the law of the jungle is our guide. Our position on the world stage as a leader and defender has been lost, possibly forever.