Calm

Transcripts of what he actually said are much easier to access. Asking someone to wade through a video, not even providing timestamps to the relevant part isn’t reasonable in this type of conversation. You are asking everyone else to invest 15 minutes, 30, an hour possibly when you won’t take the time, won’t invest the effort yourself. And they aren’t committed to proving the quote wrong where you supposedly are. Refusing to take the time…whether to criticize or defend with accurate, detailed info indicates someone doesn’t care that much to me, so why should I bother myself to engage the material?

Think of it as an opportunity to provide context, clarification, or positive quotes that counterbalance the problematic ones. It’s giving you a great excuse to show why you see him as a great man. Just complaining about the lack of context without providing it is likely to leave the impression context doesn’t actually help, so your only option is to be dismissive. Btw, Nehor, it would be more persuasive imo to provide links to transcripts where he said these things to show the greater context and that such were his actual positions.

Noticed this at the bottom: I am speculating the residents asked for a limit to be put on the donations when they could have just accepted it all. I find that admirable. I wonder if they have hefty student loans to pay off.

This is one that was in the article: https://www.gofundme.com/f/aayc3-support-for-the-phelps-family Can someone else go in and pull out the rest and post because I apparently got my free page limit with the Detroit News. Looks like changing tech is going to let me do some more: https://www.gofundme.com/f/john-bond Additional ones from hub below: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-jeff-mareis-healing-journey-after-church-shooting https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-the-family-ofthelma-armstrong-victim-grand-blanc-mi https://www.gofundme.com/f/greg-mikats-family-victim-of-the-grand-blanc-church-attack Smart, go fund me did a “hub” for all verified fundraisers: https://www.gofundme.com/c/act/michigan-church-shooting-relief

I thought you meant Nazi style rhetoric, which is sometimes seen in white supremacist language. You meant labeling others as like Nazis. In this case he’s possibly referencing doctors who experimented on concentration camp prisoners, including children like Mengele did though he skipped town and eluded capture and lived a long, sounds like pretty comfortable life without having ever been brought to justice unfortunately. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S235245291520014X

Went looking for the links today for the LDS victims and took me a bit to find them (been waiting to donate until I talk with my husband about how much, but keep getting distracted when I do see him), so reposting them here for my ease and everyone else’s easy access. These were originally posted by bsjjki. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2025/09/30/family-friends-grand-blanc-church-attack-victims-launch-online-fundraisers/86436711007/# https://gofund.me/7ca4303d2 https://gofund.me/56d726f45 To be open, I am a bit surprised these aren’t equaling and surpassing the shooter’s family fundraiser. I am wondering if that is because the LDS victims are seen more as as one entity, so focus is getting split among several rather than one specific effort. It also may be because they aren’t raising the goal once it gets surpassed, so perhaps people assume the need isn’t as great. Please post other confirmed for real links to fundraisers for LDS victims (I can’t fathom why I have to remind people that there those who start fundraisers that look like they are for others, but they pocket the money themselves).

White males… Me too.

Huh?

No, he made it clear someone else saw Kirk as extremist. Is that not common knowledge? So you think Ben is lying about his explanation for posting as he did? One can recognize that others see Kirk as an extremist without seeing him as an extremist oneself. I have that situation in my home, my daughter sees him as pretty extreme…not sure how extreme because I am not feeling the need to get the nitty gritty details here. I do not see him as extreme. And btw, there are a lot of things I think my daughter gets right, so I ask her opinion and knowledge about them, but I also know she has biases that push her to see extremism when it’s not there in some cases. So just because Ben pointed out the ADL has had a decent reputation for identifying extremism, doesn’t mean he automatically agrees with them in every case. You are in a similar situation. You acknowledge (and even assume without evidence in some cases) that others see Kirk as extreme where you most definitely do not. Why not give Ben the same allowance?

You can say that again.

Seriously going there? Disagreement means death in your thought now…as in if you think someone is extreme, you think they deserve to be killed? And if it’s not what you think (which I am guessing it’s not), why are you assuming anyone else here believes that?

Thank you for not posting it.

This would be a very good idea.

Most likely because the kid has a chronic disorder that will require medical treatment the rest of his life most likely and that is costly. Getting enough so it can be put in a trust fund for him would be a great idea, imo. Donating to a child whose outlook is rocky is a common behaviour. I do agree the ones who were shot should be supported at least as equally much. They need support as well, even just the emotional recognition that they matter to others….maybe especially that recognition. People are probably thinking they are in a better financial situation to begin with and may have exaggerated ideas of what the Church helps out with or believes the Church should make exceptions in this case…which I would not feel bad about. I wonder if some LDS might think the Church will be sure to take care of them and see themselves as doing what’s is needed by contributing to fast offerings? I think there is a good chance many LDS are still contributing to the shooter’s family because they want to convey they really don’t hold that family responsible, they don’t want them to feel guilt or shame, but I may be projecting here. I have just eaten breakfast and my brain has been mostly offline. I probably wouldn’t be posting this last thought that popped into my head otherwise, but I am currently obsessing about the Pew Research that shows LDS as the least liked…about the why when the stereotype is we are really nice people which generally translates to at least likable, if not ‘I would like to hang out with them’, so why not in this case? Not obsessing about the dislike itself though my preference would be it’s not there, but I grew up with this knowledge of dislike, so used to it…..anyone think it’s possible the general dislike of LDS is why the fundraisers for the LDS victims aren’t as significant?

I can see where someone might think someone who was dying or thinking of killing themselves but was worried about their family would do this, but given the horror of what they have to go through, the fear for their own lives, what notoriety that kid is going to be living with the rest of his life most likely, whatever money or financial security they get will not balance out the loss of emotional security. It’s an insane idea and anyone that actually would use it as justification to massacre people is far gone enough any idea justifying that act will work.

When you get a chance, if it’s not difficult since no doubt you have many things on your mind and agenda, let us know about your wife and yourself. I am hoping it will be positive news.❤️

I really, really, really hope no Saints are doing this, but if they are, someone needs to stop them, including by pulling their recommends if necessary if they have them. And if someone is doing it on the behalf of the Saints because they are mourning with us, please find a better way than hurting yet more innocents. If you need someone to harass to vent your pain, then go online where there is hate and harass others with respect and love so maybe there will be someone who chooses the caring path rather than the hating path. Great article, Okra. Glad to hear from his family.

That doesn’t explain why there can’t be other uncreated eternal intelligences though. I am fine if your reasoning is it’s simply your belief that he is the only one.

Nope, you are incomplete… Christ was God before he was a man, so if he did everything he saw his Father do, then the Father was intelligence and god (meaning he possessed the nature of God), and spirit and God (when he assume the office of God before mortality like Christ did as Jehovah) and then mortal man and God (as Christ did as Jesus) and then exalted man and God (as Jesus Christ is now).

Deserves, yes, but often the membership don’t deserve them, imo

I get that the LDS became the face of the campaign. It just seems odd to me to solely focus on the face. Are not the other parts responsible for their actions as well? I assume that the dislike, anger, resentment, and even hatred at times was deeply felt back in the moment. I remember some of the reactions. With such deep feelings, I don’t understand why there isn’t a corresponding deep attachment to all involved that continues. You seem to suggest it is continuing towards the LDS, but not towards others much, if at all (but maybe I am misunderstanding you). The more important something is to me, the more I want to know about it and care about all the connections. It is why I spend a lot of time on even trivial circumstances surrounding the Church. So I don’t get the lack of attention to others even if I get the attention still given to the LDS Church.

Lovely…. I think it’s closer to putting someone’s name on the temple roll though, though more than just that, of course. The mass is not baptism into the Catholic faith.

That’s not what I said, though I get why you interpreted it that way as it’s ambiguous. (I said I remember how much we were liked, which was in my experience quite a bit of negative, mostly neutral, and some positive). There was in the people surrounding me more of a ‘sure, they are nice enough, but they are also strange and racist and their church is just wrong’ attitude. Some kids and at least one teacher I remember saw us as snobs because some of us wouldn’t go to events that had alcohol, etc. To me it seemed there were a lot of LDS at my high school as my school in Illinois had only me and my sister, but our ward partially covered three high schools and I only remember two classes that had the same ward member in all my years though one of my best friends was from the other ward that shared our building. We both like horses and had science classes and gymnastics together. Racism was brought up a lot in my high school due to busing. There was a riot the year before I got there, I had two siblings attending. I have no clue if it was that big, but it still got talked about and teachers were trying to help smooth the integration issues. This was reflected at church some. Can’t remember if I heard about the excommunications of certain activists first at church or at BYU. I at home for the summer when the ban was lifted. Was working with a Black young lady a little older than me at a job that summer. I for some reason don’t remember the time I heard the announcement….probably because I was at home, but I remember it being talked about at work along with discussion of why the heck I was still a virgin, lol. I never heard any discussion about LGBT issues at church in California, did at BYU as Carolyn Lynn Pearson was very popular and it made a lot of noise when her husband came out and they got divorced. I suspect discussion started getting going in California at our ward by the time I was married (1980), but it never came up in the conversations I had with my parents, so can’t be sure. AIDS was drawing attention though, so it seems likely. My mother was so happy when she found the Alan Cherry book (published 1970) because it gave her hope there could be reconciliation in time. I never heard my parents say a racist thing, but my grandparents, who lived by Oakland, certainly were in a cringeworthy paternalistic mode, giving compliments to the hardworking girls and boys (grown adults) they knew as if they were surprised and not being happy about the new neighbors moving in (Hispanics mostly, but a few Black families as well) and the whole children of Cain thing didn’t make sense to me once I knew about evolution, which was pretty early because my parents put encyclopedias and science books and National Geographic on our shelves as soon as we could read and I spent almost all my free time reading, so those were consumed pretty early. As to why there are much fewer LDS there now, my guess is economics plays the biggest role both for young families and the elderly with health care and retirement living costs and then ideology. There are still many parts of California that are conservative, after all, especially once you get off the coast. My parents and other families I knew at the mid to late 80s moved out of California due to high costs of living and travel time getting too ridiculous with high traffic. Our house went from 50,000 to 3 million iirc in 15 years. Later on families who were moving out often spoke as well of ideology, looking for what they saw as more family friendly environments as well as less expensive living with children (the most vocal on ideology was probably one family member who was required to perform abortions for any reason at his clinic, he couldn’t refer them anymore to another fully qualified doctor in the clinic, he sold his part of the clinic and moved to Idaho). I have no clue how many moved out of the state and how many moved out of the Church to cause such a drop in church numbers in the Bay Area. Wish I had paid attention to other parts of California to see if the drop is consistent across the state or varies a lot and if so, on what.

I am reading a major portion of the money submitted by Catholic organizations came from them.

I like and dislike that idea. I like the immediacy of it and the direct consequence. I even think it might work eventually, though likely to really piss people off to begin with. Those officials might need disguises when off the field. Might even create backlash when fans not doing it feel it’s unjust to punish those who are behaving along with those who aren’t and therefore think damned if we do, damned if we don’t. I also would feel horrible for the team members…assuming here they are not encouraging the behaviour. I wonder if having several of the team at the beginning and throughout the game during breaks asking for acceptable behaviour be more influential than coaches speaking.