Calm

It seems similar to assuming a univocality for the Bible when there are clearly contrasting views and developing ideas throughout it. I understand the desire for stability and predictability, but I find the idea of continuing revelation, including revelation that will eventually refine our knowledge and experience and remove the mistakes of men quite invigorating and attractive (but likely not in this life imo). I love the idea of eternally progressing.

Besides the overheating, mine were the elastic waist band and lace edging. So itchy and even burning at times (the wider band is much more comfortable). I would have red marks from where I was unconsciously scratching at the lace throughout the day. Elastic irritates my skin….what can I say, my skin is like a delicate flower. Can’t even wear makeup for the most part either (some powders and mascara worked, but never creams or perfumes). I was so grateful when they dumped the lace and they started to make the tops extra long so it would stay tucked in under the waistband, so less rubbing, but the bunching took away the sense of comfort. Much better to make the waistband wider, stays tucked in without bunching as much since the top fits better.

I have never felt comfortable with any bunching of fabric. Bugs me when there’s a wrinkle in my bed sheet. I am so looking forward to these. Feeling secure in them rather than enduring them. That will be a much stronger reminder of the covenant for me.

Not to my view. It says robe, not pants or overalls. I never heard of a robe with legs included. It’s usually defined as an outer or ceremonial gown. And are you suggesting Joseph could see he didn’t have anything on underneath because he could see Moroni’s skin due to the opening down the middle? You don’t pay much attention to clothing design, do you? (I am assuming you are not familiar with the definition of robe and just assumed it was synonymous with clothing.) Webster’s 1828 dictionary entry for “robe”: A splendid or elegant dress. I asked AI to find me examples of robes with legs in them like a loose long john. Its answer (take with grain of salt as always):

I have scars that itch like anything when I sweat and can’t get it off relatively quickly. Not as bad as infections, wouldn’t prevent me from wearing garments, but I used to have to take an extra top with me in my backpack if I was going to be out more than a couple of hours.

I believe they order them through their military branch president and the Church prepares them according to requirements of each military branch (I knew these details when I was ward librarian back in early 2000’s because I went every Wednesday night for Achievement Day and YM/YW and did not have a phone to occupy my mind (hardly anyone needed anything, but my daughter was there and too shy to not have me accessible anyway, so no big deal, I read every manual they had in the library to pass the time). Added: https://assets.ldscdn.org/5c/28/5c284572e58b11eb82d6eeeeac1e5a30d3af98ef/beehive_clothing_form_military_markings_order_form.pdf They used to make the garments themselves, now they place the marks on the required under clothing the member sent them. And it looks like a member can submit the request themselves.

Just because it’s a very, very small number percentage wise of world population doesn’t mean that it’s a small number to keep a secret. Even if only 1% had second thoughts or got drunk and let it slip out or became afraid and wanted out and sought help by exposing them, that is 80 witnesses. Added: Corrected the math, I even had corrected myself beforehand and still wrote it that way. Makes me a bit concerned about calling insurance companies today, lol.

This last quote is the one I have been mostly responding to in sharing these claims, but I am a bit confused about what else you (JVW) have viewed given you dismissed Pyreaux’s caution about viewing videos portraying criminal behavior. What could be so dark and disgusting and abusive, but not criminal?

Yep. Their limited audience is others like them and if I understand correctly, it is a money making operation for many as well as attention getting (wanting to network with others).

Why would people post online if they don’t want people to view their stuff? Maybe they want a limited audience, but they still want an audience. Attention of the type desired can be as rewarding or even more rewarding than money. I can’t remember how you phrased it, but the video you described seemed to be one open to the public. If not, if it was more criminal, needing to be hidden, seems like that is even a better reason to report it. The nonincriminating video, I am assuming that is not one you would use as evidence for Satanic Ritual Abuse since there was apparently no physical evidence?

That is circular…he wanted to be like God because he was lustful, which was because he wanted to become like God. Not informative. Circular arguments are not answers, imo, since you just end up where you started. Too bad. Is there a chance you can step out of the circle or is it pretty much a “we don’t know why it happened”? I respect answers of “we don’t know” or “it’s a mystery”. That is an actual answer as it provides new information even if that information is “there is no additional information available on this topic”. I believe eventually if we get far enough back or forward or small enough, all answers amount to “we don’t know”.

That must be what I remember as “no making of garments at home” because I never did that well with following patterns with stretchy materials, so would have considered it an impossible task. I would also have wanted to choose different fabrics, so again the limitations meant “no making my own” for me.

So not completely seamless as was Christ’s clothing, so it sounds like Joseph at least was willing for some alterations to the heavenly style for practical reasons.

I wonder if Moroni appeared in different clothing at times as garments are not similar to the description given above (quoted by JHLPROF). Makes sense for him to make an exception to show Joseph as easier to teach by sight that words what something is supposed to look like.

They can wear long sleeved and high neck clothing with sleeveless garments. Doesn’t that fill the need for those who see such as more modest?

That prohibition has been around at least since I started buying them unless my memory is messed up. I did some special orders in cotton (the style didn’t come in cotton) because of that. So for 40+ years. (should have finished reading the thread before posting, lol; thanks Ben from saving me the effort to research specifics to check my memory)

That was when it started ramping up iirc, though at least BYU started to allow pants full time, even for employees. As someone who never wore a skirt even one day to high school and mostly lived in jeans, I was typically not too comfortable in my clothing at BYU until I changed to all cotton, full maxi skirts and they started allowing dressier denim. By the time we hit mid90s…ugh.

Like you said different people have different experiences. I think you are so lucky not having to make major adjustments. I miss having options in fabric choice, I prefer a clean look, but even if I iron my cotton and linen clothing, it’s royally creased by the time I am out the door. Even the rayon is hard to keep the clean look with. You probably get to compensate with having to put in extra effort in other areas so I am not too jealous, few get everything to go smoothly for them without significant work and health seems to make things instantly more complicated for people from what I have seen.

I wonder if they would have felt the need to do so if the angels had been more masculine in appearance. There are quite a few paintings with topless or partially topless men in the Gospel Art Kit…though typically angels are men and have a white robe like Moroni or one with tighter sleeves. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/collection/book-of-mormon-all-gospel-art-images?lang=eng

If it is, I don’t see any example of church members ever wearing anything like it. I am assuming JLHPROF is referring to something else, but why use that quote then? It occurs to me JLHPROF may be using “pattern” differently than myself. I am thinking he likely never sewed his or others’ clothes using a pattern, so his use of “pattern” refers to something much more vague than mine. If so, I think it would be very helpful for JLHPROF to provide the specific requirements of the revealed pattern…unless he truly is assuming the original garment worn was the revealed pattern (using it how I would use it…the women were to use their husband’s or a faithful Sister’s garment as the pattern to cut one of their own) And if that is so, where is the pattern of long sleeves and pants joined together and strung up closed for a high collar effect shown as revealed?

How old is she? (The decade is enough if you don’t mind, just trying to compare to my and my mother’s experiences.)

https://mormonr.org/qnas/0DdNd/temple_garments/research There may be more relevant quotes, need to finish my sleep cycle.

I like the mormonr response It would make sense for a reminder of the law of chastity to be a physical representation of what is considered chaste, imo.

https://bhroberts.org/records/09wgH3-3lcAmc/william_clayton_records_heber_c_kimball_alluding_to_garment_description

This reference states garments are not to be worn after the ceremony, but saved (does “never die” refer to mortal death or eternal life here?) https://books.google.com/books?id=BO9iAAAAcAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&printsec=frontcover&pg=PA247&dq="I+have+something+new+to+communicate"+Bennett&hl=en&source=gb_mobile_entity&ovdme=1#v=onepage&q="I have something new to communicate" Bennett&f=false