Can You Be Faithful And Own A Business That Serves Alcohol?

[ERayR]

So are you in agreement with the Sutherland Institute then?

Do you question the faithfulness of those who own businesses that provide for the sale of alcohol? (Or was it just the gay marriage issue?)

Apples and Oranges

[ERayR]

You're questioning their faithfulness? One can hold to the view that homosexuals should have a right to legally recognized marriage and still be faithful.

OK but may I recommend the Proclamation on the Family.

[rockpond]

OK but may I recommend the Proclamation on the Family.

And your point?

[Ron Beron]

There is a big difference in sselling "adult Beverages with a meal and a porn shop or a liquor store. Come on lets not get Pharisaic.

What would be the difference? One poisons the body while the other poisons the soul.

[Ron Beron]

It is not a sin to drink alcohol. And there are a whole lot of people who drink it, without violating any covenant at all.

???

[Tacenda]

I thought both BY and JS sold alcohol? I'm not trying to start trouble but isn't this the case? It's not the alcohol that is the problem, it's the people that don't use it wisely. Just as with anything. Someone with matches might not use them wisely either but are sold in stores. Or any other product that could be lethal. What about grocery store owners? I don't get how this could be an issue. But that's just me.

[sweetpotatoh]

I worked at a hotel in a ski resort and we would get season rentals from the ski shop for free. They didn't have to do it and i bought the guys a case of beer for their trouble. Didn't feel like I was breaking the WOW. It was a win win.

[sweetpotatoh]

As for selling porn, anyone who buys it is wasting their money or they don't have access to the internet. With the advent of the internet and the availability of connections there is wide availability and it is free. From smartphones on up it can be accessed. There literally isn't a need to provide it in hotels, or anywhere else, as access can occur anywhere there is an internet connection.

*I am not saying that consuming such harmful material is good or am I endorsing it in any way. Porn is harmful and destructive to individuals and families.

[Saints Alive]

I thought both BY and JS sold alcohol? I'm not trying to start trouble but isn't this the case? It's not the alcohol that is the problem, it's the people that don't use it wisely. Just as with anything.

They also both drank alcohol, The WoW wasn't a considered a commandment back then (because it was never meant to be). If we hadn't got tangled up with prohibition it wouldn't be a "commandment" now and we would probably have many more converts. I still don't remember covenanting to follow the WoW. I remember covenanting to to obey the law of chastity, law of consecration, Come into the fold of God (become a member of the Church of Jesus Christ), Be called his son or daughter (take upon me the name of Christ), Bear others’ burdens, that they may be light; mourn with those that mourn; and comfort those in need of comfort (help others), Stand as a witness of God at all times and in all things and in all places (testify of Christ and set a good example at all times), and Serve God and keep his commandments. Never made a covenant to obey the WoW. Of course I am asked if I follow it in TR interviews, but have never made a covenant to follow it.

[Calm]

There literally isn't a need to provide it in hotels, or anywhere else, as access can occur anywhere there is an internet connection.

I am not sure one can claim there is ever any need for porn no matter how much some people may want it.

If what you mean is that the justification of "it's what our customers want" is baseless because nowadays they could just suggest the customer use the internet to get it....I can see that.

[thesometimesaint]

While drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, and viewing are porn legal in this country. They are either a monumental waste of money, and time or a violation of the covenants the Saints have made. For someone who has not made those covenants the responsibility reside only with them.

[Saints Alive]

They are either a monumental waste of money, and time or a violation of the covenants the Saints have made. For someone

Still waiting for someone to show me when and where I made the covenant to obey the WoW.

[Mark Beesley]

Still waiting for someone to show me when and where I made the covenant to obey the WoW.

If you have been baptized, then you have covenanted to keep the commandments. That covenant is repeated every time you take the sacrament. Read the sacrament prayers if you are confused.

[Saints Alive]

If you have been baptized, then you have covenanted to keep the commandments. That covenant is repeated every time you take the sacrament. Read the sacrament prayers if you are confused.

Show me where, in the standard works, the WoW is a commandment.

[Calm]

Show me where, in the standard works, the WoW is a commandment.

Living the Word of Wisdom is like other commandments....God has given a law with a blessing attached. We can choose not to live the law, but if we don't, the blessings do not come.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive healthin their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroyingangel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/89.19?lang=eng

Now whether or not you have personally covenanted to obey this particular commandment.....

[Calm]

While the revelation came first as a “greeting; not by commandment or constraint” (D&C 89:2), when members of the Church had had time to be taught the import of the revelation, succeeding Presidents of the Church declared it to be a commandment. And it was accepted by the Church as such.

If you don't believe in continuing revelation, then I suppose you don't have to look on it as a commandment for LDS to covenant to obey it.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1996/04/the-word-of-wisdom-the-principle-and-the-promises?lang=eng

[Saints Alive]

Living the Word of Wisdom is like other commandments....God has given a law with a blessing attached. We can choose not to live the law, but if we don't, the blessings do not come.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/89.19?lang=eng

Now whether or not you have personally covenanted to obey this particular commandment.....

I fixed it for you... Also:

A Word OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion-

2 To be sent by greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom...

D&C 89:1-2

[Saints Alive]

If you don't believe in continuing revelation, then I suppose you don't have to look on it as a commandment for LDS to covenant to obey it.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1996/04/the-word-of-wisdom-the-principle-and-the-promises?lang=eng

I believe in continuing revelation but I also believe in the process The Lord set forth for receiving continuing revelation.

[Calm]

I fixed it for you... Also:

A Word OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion-

2 To be sent by greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom...

D&C 89:1-2

Has not God attached a blessing to its performance? Is it not therefore a commandment in the sense of it is a law that has consequences for obeying and disobeying even if one does not believe it is of a covenantal nature?

[Saints Alive]

Has not God attached a blessing to its performance? Is it not therefore a commandment in the sense of it is a law that has consequences for obeying and disobeying even if one does not believe it is of a covenantal nature?

I'm not sure that it is a "law" and it explicitly says that its not a commandment.

[Ron Beron]

I'm not sure that it is a "law" and it explicitly says that its not a commandment.

Jeeesssh...drink if you want, smoke and take drugs if you like, but don't hide behind some incidental that will help you skirt the commandment. While it had not been a commandment when first received succeeding generations and councils have made it so. I used to enjoy drinking coffee and sipping my dad's wine, but committed myself to not do that when I joined the church. Consider it a discipline we need to undergo.

Consider the following article... http://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V14N03_68.pdf . Read specifically the quote from Reuben Clark . . .

the Church cannot change the laws of God. They stand immutable. We may change the rules; we may say that a drunkard . . . [or] he who drinks tea and coffee may go into the temple. These rules we may change. But we cannot change the biological law that he who uses narcotics must pay the penalty somehow, somewhere, sometime.

[Saints Alive]

Yes be cause we all know that tea is comparable to narcotics... Oh brother!

[ERayR]

Yes be cause we all know that tea is comparable to narcotics... Oh brother!

No we don't know that. However, we can all recognize self justification when we see it, As was posted go do what you want but please do not split hairs over wording. He who must be commanded in all things is an unprofitable servant.

[omni]

I know there are many members of the church who own establishments that sell alcohol and cigarettes and are still able to get a temple recommend and many serve in leadership positions. Just think how many grocery stores, gas stations and restaurants are owned by members. As for Sunday issue that's a no brainer, the church owns dozens of businesses that are opened on the Sabbath, radio stations, at least two TV stations, a newspaper, news websites, etc.

[sweetpotatoh]

I am not sure one can claim there is ever any need for porn no matter how much some people may want it.

If what you mean is that the justification of "it's what our customers want" is baseless because nowadays they could just suggest the customer use the internet to get it....I can see that.

That's what I meant. Thank you.