Can You Be Faithful And Own A Business That Serves Alcohol?

[ERayR]

Its not a matter of pride, its a matter of principle fundamental to our religion.

:)

[Saints Alive]

And now continuing revelation has become "fluff and filler . . . "

Who said that, show me your continuing revelation. The last revelation I remember was in 1978 and that was only a revelation regarding policy not doctrine. Everything since them has been regurgitation and bloviation of previous revelations.

[thesometimesaint]

Who said that, show me your continuing revelation. The last revelation I remember was in 1978 and that was only a revelation regarding policy not doctrine. Everything since them has been regurgitation and bloviation of previous revelations.

We are all supposed to be guided by continuing revelation. Whether it comes from any of our Church leaders or in our daily prayers to God. IMNTBHO revelation is one thing and canon is another. Don't conflate to the two.

[Saints Alive]

. IMNTBHO revelation is one thing and canon is another. Don't conflate to the two.

And when we recieve bona fide revelation we should follow the pattern of all the prophets of every dispensation and add it to cannon.

[Mark Beesley]

Canon is a very orthodox concept. As Latter-day Saints, the idea that we have to see something "canonized" before we will accept it as binding is contrary to our belief in continuing revelation and contrary to the Word of God.

The Lord did not say, "And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, (but only if it is canonized), shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation." (D&C 68:4.) No. He left out that parenthetical that SA seems to want to insert.

Stubborn insistance that instruction from the Lord needs to find its way into one of the Standard Works of the Church before it is binding on the Church as a whole seems rather like trying to counsel the Lord. Bad idea. Really bad. Really.

[Calm]

...regurgitation and bloviation...

I have to admit hearing this as a description of the counsel that comes from GAs, even if it is not new revelation, troubles me. It comes across as lacking any respect or consideration even.

[ERayR]

Who said that, show me your continuing revelation. The last revelation I remember was in 1978 and that was only a revelation regarding policy not doctrine. Everything since them has been regurgitation and bloviation of previous revelations.

I have to admit hearing this as a description of the counsel that comes from GAs, even if it is not new revelation, troubles me. It comes across as lacking any respect or consideration even.

Cal I agree. When one begins to be prideful in their thoughts and actions the ice on the pond begins to get quite thin.

[rockpond]

Stubborn insistance that instruction from the Lord needs to find its way into one of the Standard Works of the Church before it is binding on the Church as a whole seems rather like trying to counsel the Lord. Bad idea. Really bad. Really.

It seems like you may have missed SA's point. He has never suggested that he wouldn't follow the instruction from the Lord. He's just said that it's not a commandment (because that's what the revelation itself states) and that we do not make a specific covenant to obey it (outside of more general covenants, like baptism).

[Mark Beesley]

It seems like you may have missed SA's point. He has never suggested that he wouldn't follow the instruction from the Lord. He's just said that it's not a commandment (because that's what the revelation itself states) and that we do not make a specific covenant to obey it (outside of more general covenants, like baptism).

Well, I kind of think we moved beyond that point onto a more generalized observation about revelation vs. canon, but thanks for the input.

[Saints Alive]

I have to admit hearing this as a description of the counsel that comes from GAs, even if it is not new revelation, troubles me. It comes across as lacking any respect or consideration even.

GA aren't gods, not yet anyway. The 15 are only prophets when they are acting as such. I'm not saying that there haven't been good talks or that they haven't expounded upon important things but if you think everything said in general conference is straight from The Lord I've got some JoD sections that will be interesting to discus with you.

[Saints Alive]

It seems like you may have missed SA's point. He has never suggested that he wouldn't follow the instruction from the Lord. He's just said that it's not a commandment (because that's what the revelation itself states) and that we do not make a specific covenant to obey it (outside of more general covenants, like baptism).

Right on! Right on!

[thesometimesaint]

And when we recieve bona fide revelation we should follow the pattern of all the prophets of every dispensation and add it to cannon.

Not necessarily. It depends on if it is applicable to the whole Church or not. IE; Where we put a new Temple is subject to revelation from God, but rarely is applicable to the whole Church. It's been a while since we could put the entire Church in one Temple.

[Saints Alive]

It's been a while since we could put the entire Church in one Temple.

And when they build one that will fit the entire church again it's time to get your affairs in order

[thesometimesaint]

I'm a firm believer in the fact that my inbox will still be full when I die. May Temples dot every land, and the word of the Lord be inscribed in every heart.

[Calm]

GA aren't gods, not yet anyway. The 15 are only prophets when they are acting as such. I'm not saying that there haven't been good talks or that they haven't expounded upon important things but if you think everything said in general conference is straight from The Lord I've got some JoD sections that will be interesting to discus with you.

It's the black and white division you seem to be presenting of on the one hand "revelation" and on the other "regurgitation and bloviation" with nothing in between. You may actually believe that there is much in between but you did not present it that way. You stated "[e]verything since them has been regurgitation and bloviation of previous revelations" which is harsh criticism in my view.

I never made the claim that everything that is spoken on in conference is pure revelation and if you have that impression of my comments, I challenge you to find anywhere where I have even hinted at that. I believe there is a wide range of material coming from the Apostles and that includes revelation, inspired commentary on doctrine and policy, common sense, personal prejudices and some few things that are probably inappropriate.

[Robert F. Smith]

I think God would wink at some circumstances, perhaps for a time. But ultimately no, one cannot be faithful and own such a business. One scripture in particular that deals with this is Romans 1:32. Make no mistake, I would certainly include a hotel chain that offers porn to it's customers in this category.

So the Marriott chain was wrong to have made porn available on demand on TV? So should J.Willard Marriott have had his temple recommend pulled for that? How about the LDS Church ownership of City Creek Mall, in which alcohol is sold? Can you be LDS with a temple recommend and be a dealer in a gambling casino? What about manager of the casino? Don't forget, the alcohol runs free at the casinos. What about the accountants, the people who keep track of the money at casinos? Are they O.K. to have a temple recommend? What about truck drivers who transport the booze? Or the slot machine repair technicians?

Is it O.K. to sell coffee, tea, cigarettes -- including marijuana or hashish in countries where it is legal -- if you are LDS? Can a good Mormon work in a convenience store, or in a supermarket where booze and all these other items are sold?

I recall years ago as a BYU student, I got a summer job as manager of the soda fountain, bar, and grill at Zion Lodge at Zion National Park. In addition to food, we served beer and coffee. Nearly all the young women working for me there were good LDS girls, and no one seemed to give it a second thought. The Lodge manager was a mature Mormon who was also our LDS branch president for the summer.

Has the Sutherland Institute approached this question with this full spectrum of issues in mind?

[rockpond]

Has the Sutherland Institute approached this question with this full spectrum of issues in mind?

Short answer: No.

And they don't strike me as an organization that the Church should be financially supporting (though it sounds like it's minimal).

[Saints Alive]

It's the black and white division you seem to be presenting of on the one hand "revelation" and on the other "regurgitation and bloviation" with nothing in between.

Not sure how you interpreted it that way.

You may actually believe that there is much in between but you did not present it that way. You stated "[e]verything since them has been regurgitation and bloviation of previous revelations" which is harsh criticism in my view.

If you are interpreting my statement strictly to GC I can see where you are confused. The conversation is about revelation, not good advise, personal musings, or culturally held biases of GAs at conference.