Do Mormons believe they must earn their salvation? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Mormons you ask, and it depends on what you mean by salvation.
LDS Church doctrine distinguishes general salvation from individual salvation. General salvation means that everyone will be resurrected from the dead and given “immortality,” and virtually everyone will end up living forever in one of three glorious heavenly kingdoms, the least of which is far more glorious than our present world. Individual salvation means obtaining “eternal life” in the highest of those three heavenly kingdoms, the celestial kingdom, where Heavenly Father lives.
All Mormons agree that no one can do anything in this mortal life to earn general salvation (resurrection and immortality). Indeed, no faith or works are required, expected, or associated in any way with this general salvation. The most avowed atheist and the worst murderer will receive this general salvation “by grace alone.” On the other hand, to obtain individual salvation, a person must have both faith and good works. This salvation is partly by God’s grace and partly by our own obedience, faithfulness, and works. General salvation is unconditional; individual salvation is conditional:
“Resurrection, or immortality, comes to every man and every woman as an unconditional gift. Eternal life, or celestial glory or exaltation, is a conditional gift.” Russell M. Nelson, “Salvation and Exaltation,” Ensign (Conference Report), May 2008, 8-9.
The historic and prevailing view in LDS teaching has been that individual salvation is and must be earned. Specifically, in order to obtain “eternal life” in the celestial kingdom, one must both believe in Christ and perform good works as required in LDS religion in order to qualify for, merit, or earn one’s place in that kingdom.
EXPLICIT AFFIRMATIONS OF EARNING INDIVIDUAL SALVATION
Numerous LDS leaders have explicitly said that we must earn our (individual) salvation, eternal life, entrance into the celestial kingdom, or exaltation. They have stated that all blessings beyond immortality must be earned or merited. Leaders who have made such statements include several LDS Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, John Taylor, Heber J. Grant, George Albert Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, and Spencer W. Kimball. Many (indeed most) of these statements have been made at general conferences.
The following quotations document just how pervasive was this teaching in the LDS Church for most of its history, especially between about 1900 and 2000. Ironically, such statements are rare or nonexistent in the writings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young (at least so far as I have been able to determine). But in the twentieth century, LDS publications made such statements dozens of times. In the first decade of the twenty-first century there has been a notable drop-off in such statements, although I have found a few. For ease of convenience, I quote here only the most explicit affirmations of earning (or meriting) salvation (eternal life, the celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.) and only from General Authorities. I have a much longer document in the works that provides greater context for these quotations as well as full documentation.
“Have they earned salvation and become saviors? We also shall participate in that….” (John Taylor, 1881)
“The Lord has given to every individual soul power, if he will but exercise it and do the will of the Lord, to earn eternal life.” (Francis A. Lyman, 1895)
“…we must then work out our salvation and earn eternal life, for it is not obtained without earning it….” (Francis M. Lyman, 1899)
“Nearly all will be saved in some degree of glory and salvation, just according to what they have earned. That is what we shall receive finally.” (Francis M. Lyman, 1910)
“…I think of her as one who has earned the greatest of all God’s gifts to man, namely: life eternal.” (Heber J. Grant, 1916)
“By God’s plan every soul would be obliged to earn its own salvation….” (John A. Widtsoe, 1918)
“…we have embraced the true gospel of our Redeemer, and if we only apply it to our lives we will earn our salvation in God’s kingdom…. We are being saved temporally just as fast as we live the laws pertaining to our temporal salvation; and if we continue therein we shall earn our salvation and exaltation in God’s kingdom…. We have just begun our work of observing every principle of the gospel as taught by the Latter-day Saints and, as stated in the beginning of my remarks, we shall earn salvation….” (George W. Mccune, 1921)
“Nobody can buy or give us salvation in our Father’s kingdom; we earn it through divine service, performing every requirement made of us from on high.” (Heber C. Iverson, 1922)
“Thus, we see the importance of loving one another, as we are commanded to do and we should constantly be found serving the Lord by serving our fellow men and encouraging them in their efforts to earn as their reward salvation in the celestial kingdom.” (David A. Smith, 1925)
“Knowing these truths, how careful we as Latter-day Saints ought to be to live every day of our lives that we may be influenced by the power of the Lord, and that we may be able to turn aside from those things that have a tendency to break down our power to earn the celestial kingdom.” (George Albert Smith, 1926)
“Not all shall enjoy the celestial glory, but those only who earn that privilege.” (David A. Smith, 1932)
“Whether he receives exaltation or condemnation, we are positively informed that it will be a reward based upon individual merit.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1936)
“It is your privilege and mine to divide with them the Gospel of our Lord, and to carry the message of life and salvation to them not only for their benefit but to earn our own exaltation.” (George Albert Smith, 1938)
“I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of the living God and that the gospel of our Lord is the power of God unto salvation in preparation for a home in the celestial kingdom, and that if we desire to dwell there we must earn our place by righteous living….” (George Albert Smith, 1939)
“They made clear distinction between general salvation or resurrection from the grave and individual salvation or exaltation earned by a man through his compliance with the laws of God.” (Stephen L. Richards, 1941)
“It remains for us to demonstrate whether or not we will do our part and merit exaltation.” (George Albert Smith, 1942)
“In reality, this doctrine means that we earn and must earn what we get. Salvation must be earned.” (John A. Widtsoe, 1944)
“Every man will be judged according to his works, and he will receive only that degree of glory that he has earned…. I desire most earnestly that we shall all earn and receive an eternal inheritance in the celestial kingdom of our Lord right here upon this earth when we attain to immortality.” (George Albert Smith, 1945)
“…if we expect to enjoy eternal happiness in the celestial kingdom, we must earn it…. How wonderful it is for us to know that we have a chance to earn our place in that kingdom…. (George Albert Smith, 1947)
“…if we want to be among those whose names are recorded in the Lamb’s Book of Life as being entitled to a place in the Celestial Kingdom when this earth becomes that kingdom, we have got to earn that ourselves, individually.” (George Albert Smith, 1950)
“Every person will inherit a glory of salvation, which will be the one that he has earned.” (John A. Widtsoe, 1951)
“He [Jesus] gave explanation of the difference between general salvation brought about through his atonement and coming to all men, and individual exaltation, earned by good living and conformity to all his laws and requirements.” (Stephen L. Richards, 1955)
“Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit—through the faithful performance of duty—only those who are worthy shall receive it.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1955)
“To be redeemed from Satan and his angels does not mean that all will find their way into the celestial kingdom. Although redeemed from his power, they will have to go to that kingdom which they merit according to their works.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1957)
“It is the opportunity, I believe, to earn an exaltation in the kingdom of God, which comes to us as a merciful gift from Christ our Lord.” (Antoine R. Ivins, 1958)
“I am grateful beyond expression for…a Church in which each one of us can find expression for his talents and growth in his character as he strives to earn his salvation and to serve his fellow men.” (Albert Theodore Tuttle, 1959)
“By his [Christ’s] sacrifice, he opened to us the door to life everlasting and made it possible for us to resurrect our bodies and so regain the presence of Almighty God, provided, of course, that we live righteous lives to merit this privilege.” (Theodore M. Burton, 1964)
“This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1966)
“They are doing nothing seriously wrong except in their failures to do the right things to earn their exaltation.” (Spencer W. Kimball, 1969)
“This celestial inheritance, itself also available because of God’s grace, must be earned.” (Bruce R. McConkie, 1971)
“Obey, obey, obey; keep the commandments; earn the attributes of godliness—and then, and then only, cometh salvation!... every blessing, other than the fact of resurrection, must be earned by obedience…. Keeping the commandments, growing in grace, acquiring the attributes of godliness, working out your salvation; salvation must be earned; it is free only in the sense that it is freely available to all who will pay the price of righteousness.” Bruce R. McConkie, 1973)
“Don’t you see that if we are going to spend eternity with the Lord, we have to earn that privilege by doing what he asks of us?” (Mark E. Peterson, 1974)
“All mankind would be given—through the grace of God—immortality! Additionally, for those who would earn it, there would be the richness of eternal life!” (Neal A. Maxwell, 1982)
“…the more fully we understand gospel principles, the more perfectly we are able to counsel and instruct others—particularly in our own families—and thereby earn the rewards of eternal life.” Bruce R. McConkie, 1989)
“It is my prayer that each of us will recognize and fulfill well our sacred duty of bringing up children in light and truth, that we may merit eternal life, the greatest of all the gifts of God, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.” (H. Verlan Andersen, 1991)
“Twice in the space of a year we have lost prophets who are very dear to us, President Ezra Taft Benson and President Howard W. Hunter…. They taught us the importance of being kind to one another, obeying the commandments, and how to receive a fulness of joy and merit eternal life.” (Robert D. Hales, 1995)
“Agency is one of the great gifts of God to His children. It allows all men and women the right to choose for themselves and to earn their own individual salvation.” (L. Tom Perry, 1998)
“In order to qualify for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, we must gain the trust of the Lord here on earth. We gain the trust of the Lord through earning it, and that is accomplished through our actual performance in living His gospel and keeping our covenants. In other words, we earn the trust of the Lord by doing His will” (Richard J. Maynes, 2004)
“Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life.” (Robert D. Hales, 2007)
EARNING SALVATION: EXPLICITLY CONTRARY STATEMENTS
The above statements need to be compared to other statements from LDS leaders that explicitly deny that people can earn their individual salvation. I am aware of only one such statement made in an “official” context such as a general conference speech, that of Dallin Oaks. I have also found an explicit denial in a book by Jeffrey Holland. The other examples I have found come from LDS theologians who are not General Authorities, notably Stephen E. Robinson and Robert L. Millet. Here are the only quotations I have found so far from General Authorities that explicitly deny that people earn their (individual) salvation:
“Man cannot earn his own salvation.” (Dallin H. Oaks, 1988)
“But even in such outward ordinances, even by such ‘works,’ if you will, do we earn our way to salvation? Emphatically not, said Nephi” (Jeffrey R. Holland, 1997)
I welcome any additional quotations from General Authorities, so that we may have as accurate information as possible.
CONCLUSION
Two statements by General Authorities—neither of whom has served as the President of the LDS Church—hardly compares to over forty statements by General Authorities, including several LDS Presidents, throughout the twentieth century and continuing into the twenty-first. If we are honestly trying to determine whether the LDS Church’s official position is that people must earn their individual salvation, the answer seems to be emphatically yes. This doesn’t mean that all Mormons agree, as the examples I mention illustrate. I am not claiming that there is unanimity among Mormons on this question. I am claiming, however, that we are on much firmer ground in asserting that the LDS Church teaches that salvation is earned than in denying it.
0
Earning Salvation
Started by
Rob Bowman
, Jul 27 2010 10:22 PM
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This topic is locked
204 replies to this topic
#1
Rob Bowman
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Boldly going where no evangelical apologist has gone before
Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:22 PM
Rob Bowman
Director of Research, Institute for Religious Research
"BYU faculty members do not speak for the church."--Michael Purdy, LDS Church spokesman.
Director of Research, Institute for Religious Research
"BYU faculty members do not speak for the church."--Michael Purdy, LDS Church spokesman.
#2
frankenstein
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Brings Forth Plants
Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:28 PM
a person must have both faith and good works
that pesky bible always supporting the mormon teachings
that pesky bible always supporting the mormon teachings
#3
Vanguard
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Member: Moves Upon the Waters
Posted 27 July 2010 - 10:35 PM
Rob Bowman, on 27 July 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:
Do Mormons believe they must earn their salvation? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Mormons you ask, and it depends on what you mean by salvation.
LDS Church doctrine distinguishes general salvation from individual salvation. General salvation means that everyone will be resurrected from the dead and given “immortality,” and virtually everyone will end up living forever in one of three glorious heavenly kingdoms, the least of which is far more glorious than our present world. Individual salvation means obtaining “eternal life” in the highest of those three heavenly kingdoms, the celestial kingdom, where Heavenly Father lives.
All Mormons agree that no one can do anything in this mortal life to earn general salvation (resurrection and immortality). Indeed, no faith or works are required, expected, or associated in any way with this general salvation. The most avowed atheist and the worst murderer will receive this general salvation “by grace alone.” On the other hand, to obtain individual salvation, a person must have both faith and good works. This salvation is partly by God’s grace and partly by our own obedience, faithfulness, and works. General salvation is unconditional; individual salvation is conditional:
“Resurrection, or immortality, comes to every man and every woman as an unconditional gift. Eternal life, or celestial glory or exaltation, is a conditional gift.” Russell M. Nelson, “Salvation and Exaltation,” Ensign (Conference Report), May 2008, 8-9.
The historic and prevailing view in LDS teaching has been that individual salvation is and must be earned. Specifically, in order to obtain “eternal life” in the celestial kingdom, one must both believe in Christ and perform good works as required in LDS religion in order to qualify for, merit, or earn one’s place in that kingdom.
EXPLICIT AFFIRMATIONS OF EARNING INDIVIDUAL SALVATION
Numerous LDS leaders have explicitly said that we must earn our (individual) salvation, eternal life, entrance into the celestial kingdom, or exaltation. They have stated that all blessings beyond immortality must be earned or merited. Leaders who have made such statements include several LDS Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, John Taylor, Heber J. Grant, George Albert Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, and Spencer W. Kimball. Many (indeed most) of these statements have been made at general conferences.
The following quotations document just how pervasive was this teaching in the LDS Church for most of its history, especially between about 1900 and 2000. Ironically, such statements are rare or nonexistent in the writings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young (at least so far as I have been able to determine). But in the twentieth century, LDS publications made such statements dozens of times. In the first decade of the twenty-first century there has been a notable drop-off in such statements, although I have found a few. For ease of convenience, I quote here only the most explicit affirmations of earning (or meriting) salvation (eternal life, the celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.) and only from General Authorities. I have a much longer document in the works that provides greater context for these quotations as well as full documentation.
“Have they earned salvation and become saviors? We also shall participate in that….” (John Taylor, 1881)
“The Lord has given to every individual soul power, if he will but exercise it and do the will of the Lord, to earn eternal life.” (Francis A. Lyman, 1895)
“…we must then work out our salvation and earn eternal life, for it is not obtained without earning it….” (Francis M. Lyman, 1899)
“Nearly all will be saved in some degree of glory and salvation, just according to what they have earned. That is what we shall receive finally.” (Francis M. Lyman, 1910)
“…I think of her as one who has earned the greatest of all God’s gifts to man, namely: life eternal.” (Heber J. Grant, 1916)
“By God’s plan every soul would be obliged to earn its own salvation….” (John A. Widtsoe, 1918)
“…we have embraced the true gospel of our Redeemer, and if we only apply it to our lives we will earn our salvation in God’s kingdom…. We are being saved temporally just as fast as we live the laws pertaining to our temporal salvation; and if we continue therein we shall earn our salvation and exaltation in God’s kingdom…. We have just begun our work of observing every principle of the gospel as taught by the Latter-day Saints and, as stated in the beginning of my remarks, we shall earn salvation….” (George W. Mccune, 1921)
“Nobody can buy or give us salvation in our Father’s kingdom; we earn it through divine service, performing every requirement made of us from on high.” (Heber C. Iverson, 1922)
“Thus, we see the importance of loving one another, as we are commanded to do and we should constantly be found serving the Lord by serving our fellow men and encouraging them in their efforts to earn as their reward salvation in the celestial kingdom.” (David A. Smith, 1925)
“Knowing these truths, how careful we as Latter-day Saints ought to be to live every day of our lives that we may be influenced by the power of the Lord, and that we may be able to turn aside from those things that have a tendency to break down our power to earn the celestial kingdom.” (George Albert Smith, 1926)
“Not all shall enjoy the celestial glory, but those only who earn that privilege.” (David A. Smith, 1932)
“Whether he receives exaltation or condemnation, we are positively informed that it will be a reward based upon individual merit.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1936)
“It is your privilege and mine to divide with them the Gospel of our Lord, and to carry the message of life and salvation to them not only for their benefit but to earn our own exaltation.” (George Albert Smith, 1938)
“I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of the living God and that the gospel of our Lord is the power of God unto salvation in preparation for a home in the celestial kingdom, and that if we desire to dwell there we must earn our place by righteous living….” (George Albert Smith, 1939)
“They made clear distinction between general salvation or resurrection from the grave and individual salvation or exaltation earned by a man through his compliance with the laws of God.” (Stephen L. Richards, 1941)
“It remains for us to demonstrate whether or not we will do our part and merit exaltation.” (George Albert Smith, 1942)
“In reality, this doctrine means that we earn and must earn what we get. Salvation must be earned.” (John A. Widtsoe, 1944)
“Every man will be judged according to his works, and he will receive only that degree of glory that he has earned…. I desire most earnestly that we shall all earn and receive an eternal inheritance in the celestial kingdom of our Lord right here upon this earth when we attain to immortality.” (George Albert Smith, 1945)
“…if we expect to enjoy eternal happiness in the celestial kingdom, we must earn it…. How wonderful it is for us to know that we have a chance to earn our place in that kingdom…. (George Albert Smith, 1947)
“…if we want to be among those whose names are recorded in the Lamb’s Book of Life as being entitled to a place in the Celestial Kingdom when this earth becomes that kingdom, we have got to earn that ourselves, individually.” (George Albert Smith, 1950)
“Every person will inherit a glory of salvation, which will be the one that he has earned.” (John A. Widtsoe, 1951)
“He [Jesus] gave explanation of the difference between general salvation brought about through his atonement and coming to all men, and individual exaltation, earned by good living and conformity to all his laws and requirements.” (Stephen L. Richards, 1955)
“Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit—through the faithful performance of duty—only those who are worthy shall receive it.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1955)
“To be redeemed from Satan and his angels does not mean that all will find their way into the celestial kingdom. Although redeemed from his power, they will have to go to that kingdom which they merit according to their works.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1957)
“It is the opportunity, I believe, to earn an exaltation in the kingdom of God, which comes to us as a merciful gift from Christ our Lord.” (Antoine R. Ivins, 1958)
“I am grateful beyond expression for…a Church in which each one of us can find expression for his talents and growth in his character as he strives to earn his salvation and to serve his fellow men.” (Albert Theodore Tuttle, 1959)
“By his [Christ’s] sacrifice, he opened to us the door to life everlasting and made it possible for us to resurrect our bodies and so regain the presence of Almighty God, provided, of course, that we live righteous lives to merit this privilege.” (Theodore M. Burton, 1964)
“This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1966)
“They are doing nothing seriously wrong except in their failures to do the right things to earn their exaltation.” (Spencer W. Kimball, 1969)
“This celestial inheritance, itself also available because of God’s grace, must be earned.” (Bruce R. McConkie, 1971)
“Obey, obey, obey; keep the commandments; earn the attributes of godliness—and then, and then only, cometh salvation!... every blessing, other than the fact of resurrection, must be earned by obedience…. Keeping the commandments, growing in grace, acquiring the attributes of godliness, working out your salvation; salvation must be earned; it is free only in the sense that it is freely available to all who will pay the price of righteousness.” Bruce R. McConkie, 1973)
“Don’t you see that if we are going to spend eternity with the Lord, we have to earn that privilege by doing what he asks of us?” (Mark E. Peterson, 1974)
“All mankind would be given—through the grace of God—immortality! Additionally, for those who would earn it, there would be the richness of eternal life!” (Neal A. Maxwell, 1982)
“…the more fully we understand gospel principles, the more perfectly we are able to counsel and instruct others—particularly in our own families—and thereby earn the rewards of eternal life.” Bruce R. McConkie, 1989)
“It is my prayer that each of us will recognize and fulfill well our sacred duty of bringing up children in light and truth, that we may merit eternal life, the greatest of all the gifts of God, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.” (H. Verlan Andersen, 1991)
“Twice in the space of a year we have lost prophets who are very dear to us, President Ezra Taft Benson and President Howard W. Hunter…. They taught us the importance of being kind to one another, obeying the commandments, and how to receive a fulness of joy and merit eternal life.” (Robert D. Hales, 1995)
“Agency is one of the great gifts of God to His children. It allows all men and women the right to choose for themselves and to earn their own individual salvation.” (L. Tom Perry, 1998)
“In order to qualify for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, we must gain the trust of the Lord here on earth. We gain the trust of the Lord through earning it, and that is accomplished through our actual performance in living His gospel and keeping our covenants. In other words, we earn the trust of the Lord by doing His will” (Richard J. Maynes, 2004)
“Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life.” (Robert D. Hales, 2007)
EARNING SALVATION: EXPLICITLY CONTRARY STATEMENTS
The above statements need to be compared to other statements from LDS leaders that explicitly deny that people can earn their individual salvation. I am aware of only one such statement made in an “official” context such as a general conference speech, that of Dallin Oaks. I have also found an explicit denial in a book by Jeffrey Holland. The other examples I have found come from LDS theologians who are not General Authorities, notably Stephen E. Robinson and Robert L. Millet. Here are the only quotations I have found so far from General Authorities that explicitly deny that people earn their (individual) salvation:
“Man cannot earn his own salvation.” (Dallin H. Oaks, 1988)
“But even in such outward ordinances, even by such ‘works,’ if you will, do we earn our way to salvation? Emphatically not, said Nephi” (Jeffrey R. Holland, 1997)
I welcome any additional quotations from General Authorities, so that we may have as accurate information as possible.
CONCLUSION
Two statements by General Authorities—neither of whom has served as the President of the LDS Church—hardly compares to over forty statements by General Authorities, including several LDS Presidents, throughout the twentieth century and continuing into the twenty-first. If we are honestly trying to determine whether the LDS Church’s official position is that people must earn their individual salvation, the answer seems to be emphatically yes. This doesn’t mean that all Mormons agree, as the examples I mention illustrate. I am not claiming that there is unanimity among Mormons on this question. I am claiming, however, that we are on much firmer ground in asserting that the LDS Church teaches that salvation is earned than in denying it.
LDS Church doctrine distinguishes general salvation from individual salvation. General salvation means that everyone will be resurrected from the dead and given “immortality,” and virtually everyone will end up living forever in one of three glorious heavenly kingdoms, the least of which is far more glorious than our present world. Individual salvation means obtaining “eternal life” in the highest of those three heavenly kingdoms, the celestial kingdom, where Heavenly Father lives.
All Mormons agree that no one can do anything in this mortal life to earn general salvation (resurrection and immortality). Indeed, no faith or works are required, expected, or associated in any way with this general salvation. The most avowed atheist and the worst murderer will receive this general salvation “by grace alone.” On the other hand, to obtain individual salvation, a person must have both faith and good works. This salvation is partly by God’s grace and partly by our own obedience, faithfulness, and works. General salvation is unconditional; individual salvation is conditional:
“Resurrection, or immortality, comes to every man and every woman as an unconditional gift. Eternal life, or celestial glory or exaltation, is a conditional gift.” Russell M. Nelson, “Salvation and Exaltation,” Ensign (Conference Report), May 2008, 8-9.
The historic and prevailing view in LDS teaching has been that individual salvation is and must be earned. Specifically, in order to obtain “eternal life” in the celestial kingdom, one must both believe in Christ and perform good works as required in LDS religion in order to qualify for, merit, or earn one’s place in that kingdom.
EXPLICIT AFFIRMATIONS OF EARNING INDIVIDUAL SALVATION
Numerous LDS leaders have explicitly said that we must earn our (individual) salvation, eternal life, entrance into the celestial kingdom, or exaltation. They have stated that all blessings beyond immortality must be earned or merited. Leaders who have made such statements include several LDS Presidents: Joseph F. Smith, John Taylor, Heber J. Grant, George Albert Smith, Joseph Fielding Smith, and Spencer W. Kimball. Many (indeed most) of these statements have been made at general conferences.
The following quotations document just how pervasive was this teaching in the LDS Church for most of its history, especially between about 1900 and 2000. Ironically, such statements are rare or nonexistent in the writings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young (at least so far as I have been able to determine). But in the twentieth century, LDS publications made such statements dozens of times. In the first decade of the twenty-first century there has been a notable drop-off in such statements, although I have found a few. For ease of convenience, I quote here only the most explicit affirmations of earning (or meriting) salvation (eternal life, the celestial kingdom, exaltation, etc.) and only from General Authorities. I have a much longer document in the works that provides greater context for these quotations as well as full documentation.
“Have they earned salvation and become saviors? We also shall participate in that….” (John Taylor, 1881)
“The Lord has given to every individual soul power, if he will but exercise it and do the will of the Lord, to earn eternal life.” (Francis A. Lyman, 1895)
“…we must then work out our salvation and earn eternal life, for it is not obtained without earning it….” (Francis M. Lyman, 1899)
“Nearly all will be saved in some degree of glory and salvation, just according to what they have earned. That is what we shall receive finally.” (Francis M. Lyman, 1910)
“…I think of her as one who has earned the greatest of all God’s gifts to man, namely: life eternal.” (Heber J. Grant, 1916)
“By God’s plan every soul would be obliged to earn its own salvation….” (John A. Widtsoe, 1918)
“…we have embraced the true gospel of our Redeemer, and if we only apply it to our lives we will earn our salvation in God’s kingdom…. We are being saved temporally just as fast as we live the laws pertaining to our temporal salvation; and if we continue therein we shall earn our salvation and exaltation in God’s kingdom…. We have just begun our work of observing every principle of the gospel as taught by the Latter-day Saints and, as stated in the beginning of my remarks, we shall earn salvation….” (George W. Mccune, 1921)
“Nobody can buy or give us salvation in our Father’s kingdom; we earn it through divine service, performing every requirement made of us from on high.” (Heber C. Iverson, 1922)
“Thus, we see the importance of loving one another, as we are commanded to do and we should constantly be found serving the Lord by serving our fellow men and encouraging them in their efforts to earn as their reward salvation in the celestial kingdom.” (David A. Smith, 1925)
“Knowing these truths, how careful we as Latter-day Saints ought to be to live every day of our lives that we may be influenced by the power of the Lord, and that we may be able to turn aside from those things that have a tendency to break down our power to earn the celestial kingdom.” (George Albert Smith, 1926)
“Not all shall enjoy the celestial glory, but those only who earn that privilege.” (David A. Smith, 1932)
“Whether he receives exaltation or condemnation, we are positively informed that it will be a reward based upon individual merit.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1936)
“It is your privilege and mine to divide with them the Gospel of our Lord, and to carry the message of life and salvation to them not only for their benefit but to earn our own exaltation.” (George Albert Smith, 1938)
“I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of the living God and that the gospel of our Lord is the power of God unto salvation in preparation for a home in the celestial kingdom, and that if we desire to dwell there we must earn our place by righteous living….” (George Albert Smith, 1939)
“They made clear distinction between general salvation or resurrection from the grave and individual salvation or exaltation earned by a man through his compliance with the laws of God.” (Stephen L. Richards, 1941)
“It remains for us to demonstrate whether or not we will do our part and merit exaltation.” (George Albert Smith, 1942)
“In reality, this doctrine means that we earn and must earn what we get. Salvation must be earned.” (John A. Widtsoe, 1944)
“Every man will be judged according to his works, and he will receive only that degree of glory that he has earned…. I desire most earnestly that we shall all earn and receive an eternal inheritance in the celestial kingdom of our Lord right here upon this earth when we attain to immortality.” (George Albert Smith, 1945)
“…if we expect to enjoy eternal happiness in the celestial kingdom, we must earn it…. How wonderful it is for us to know that we have a chance to earn our place in that kingdom…. (George Albert Smith, 1947)
“…if we want to be among those whose names are recorded in the Lamb’s Book of Life as being entitled to a place in the Celestial Kingdom when this earth becomes that kingdom, we have got to earn that ourselves, individually.” (George Albert Smith, 1950)
“Every person will inherit a glory of salvation, which will be the one that he has earned.” (John A. Widtsoe, 1951)
“He [Jesus] gave explanation of the difference between general salvation brought about through his atonement and coming to all men, and individual exaltation, earned by good living and conformity to all his laws and requirements.” (Stephen L. Richards, 1955)
“Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit—through the faithful performance of duty—only those who are worthy shall receive it.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1955)
“To be redeemed from Satan and his angels does not mean that all will find their way into the celestial kingdom. Although redeemed from his power, they will have to go to that kingdom which they merit according to their works.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1957)
“It is the opportunity, I believe, to earn an exaltation in the kingdom of God, which comes to us as a merciful gift from Christ our Lord.” (Antoine R. Ivins, 1958)
“I am grateful beyond expression for…a Church in which each one of us can find expression for his talents and growth in his character as he strives to earn his salvation and to serve his fellow men.” (Albert Theodore Tuttle, 1959)
“By his [Christ’s] sacrifice, he opened to us the door to life everlasting and made it possible for us to resurrect our bodies and so regain the presence of Almighty God, provided, of course, that we live righteous lives to merit this privilege.” (Theodore M. Burton, 1964)
“This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, 1966)
“They are doing nothing seriously wrong except in their failures to do the right things to earn their exaltation.” (Spencer W. Kimball, 1969)
“This celestial inheritance, itself also available because of God’s grace, must be earned.” (Bruce R. McConkie, 1971)
“Obey, obey, obey; keep the commandments; earn the attributes of godliness—and then, and then only, cometh salvation!... every blessing, other than the fact of resurrection, must be earned by obedience…. Keeping the commandments, growing in grace, acquiring the attributes of godliness, working out your salvation; salvation must be earned; it is free only in the sense that it is freely available to all who will pay the price of righteousness.” Bruce R. McConkie, 1973)
“Don’t you see that if we are going to spend eternity with the Lord, we have to earn that privilege by doing what he asks of us?” (Mark E. Peterson, 1974)
“All mankind would be given—through the grace of God—immortality! Additionally, for those who would earn it, there would be the richness of eternal life!” (Neal A. Maxwell, 1982)
“…the more fully we understand gospel principles, the more perfectly we are able to counsel and instruct others—particularly in our own families—and thereby earn the rewards of eternal life.” Bruce R. McConkie, 1989)
“It is my prayer that each of us will recognize and fulfill well our sacred duty of bringing up children in light and truth, that we may merit eternal life, the greatest of all the gifts of God, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.” (H. Verlan Andersen, 1991)
“Twice in the space of a year we have lost prophets who are very dear to us, President Ezra Taft Benson and President Howard W. Hunter…. They taught us the importance of being kind to one another, obeying the commandments, and how to receive a fulness of joy and merit eternal life.” (Robert D. Hales, 1995)
“Agency is one of the great gifts of God to His children. It allows all men and women the right to choose for themselves and to earn their own individual salvation.” (L. Tom Perry, 1998)
“In order to qualify for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, we must gain the trust of the Lord here on earth. We gain the trust of the Lord through earning it, and that is accomplished through our actual performance in living His gospel and keeping our covenants. In other words, we earn the trust of the Lord by doing His will” (Richard J. Maynes, 2004)
“Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life.” (Robert D. Hales, 2007)
EARNING SALVATION: EXPLICITLY CONTRARY STATEMENTS
The above statements need to be compared to other statements from LDS leaders that explicitly deny that people can earn their individual salvation. I am aware of only one such statement made in an “official” context such as a general conference speech, that of Dallin Oaks. I have also found an explicit denial in a book by Jeffrey Holland. The other examples I have found come from LDS theologians who are not General Authorities, notably Stephen E. Robinson and Robert L. Millet. Here are the only quotations I have found so far from General Authorities that explicitly deny that people earn their (individual) salvation:
“Man cannot earn his own salvation.” (Dallin H. Oaks, 1988)
“But even in such outward ordinances, even by such ‘works,’ if you will, do we earn our way to salvation? Emphatically not, said Nephi” (Jeffrey R. Holland, 1997)
I welcome any additional quotations from General Authorities, so that we may have as accurate information as possible.
CONCLUSION
Two statements by General Authorities—neither of whom has served as the President of the LDS Church—hardly compares to over forty statements by General Authorities, including several LDS Presidents, throughout the twentieth century and continuing into the twenty-first. If we are honestly trying to determine whether the LDS Church’s official position is that people must earn their individual salvation, the answer seems to be emphatically yes. This doesn’t mean that all Mormons agree, as the examples I mention illustrate. I am not claiming that there is unanimity among Mormons on this question. I am claiming, however, that we are on much firmer ground in asserting that the LDS Church teaches that salvation is earned than in denying it.
#4
BCSpace
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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:04 PM
Quote
The vast majority of your quotes involve quite notable leaders before they ever became president - the first one being George Albert Smith in 1950. It's been 60 years...
Wouldn't matter if those quotes are found in Church publications which are the standard for doctrine. Btw, didn't Paul essentially imply salvation is earned when he said he hadn't "apprehended" it yet in Philippians 3:11-14?
Edited by BCSpace, 27 July 2010 - 11:04 PM.
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LDS doctrine defined. The first bullet point is the key.
Capitalism from the Lord: Law of Consecration.
Evolution Primer Evolution does not conflict with LDS doctrine in any way.
LDS doctrine defined. The first bullet point is the key.
Capitalism from the Lord: Law of Consecration.
Evolution Primer Evolution does not conflict with LDS doctrine in any way.
#5
nicolasconnault
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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:40 PM
BCSpace, on 27 July 2010 - 11:04 PM, said:
Wouldn't matter if those quotes are found in Church publications which are the standard for doctrine. Btw, didn't Paul essentially imply salvation is earned when he said he hadn't "apprehended" it yet in Philippians 3:11-14?
Should we go over the whole Correlation story again?
Intelligence is defined by a single variable: whether or not you understand the word "dichotomy".
#6
mfbukowski
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Posted 27 July 2010 - 11:50 PM
Rob Bowman, on 27 July 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:
Do Mormons believe they must earn their salvation? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Mormons you ask, and it depends on what you mean by salvation.
So what?
"I see Religion as creating a language to speak of the divine and sacred. Since I see creating this language as a creative act, ... creating a certain view of heaven and earth, a living 'image' of God and Man and their story, past, present and future." - Calmoriah
My Blog: Theomorphic Man http://theomorphicman.blogspot.com/
My Blog: Theomorphic Man http://theomorphicman.blogspot.com/
#7
Storm Rider
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 12:30 AM
Rob Bowman, on 27 July 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:
Do Mormons believe they must earn their salvation? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Mormons you ask, and it depends on what you mean by salvation.
Rob, it is true that LDS believe that faith is only present when accompanied by good works. We also believe that each individual will be judged by our works. Those works or lack thereof will be part of the manner in which we are judged and will assist in designating what mansion or glory we will attain. Jesus said in my Father's house are many mansions; LDS agree with Jesus that there are many mansions and each with their own glory. If there are no works, there is no faith. When there is a change of heart at the last hour, it is work enough to attain some degree of glory. These are all biblical teachings. Why would anyone believe differently?
Storm Rider
“When from Thy stern tutoring, I would quickly flee, turn me from my Tarshish to where is best for me. Help me in my Nineveh to serve with love and truth; not on a hillside posted, mid shade of gourd or booth. When my modest suffering seems so vexing, wrong, and sore, may I recall what freely flowed from each and every pore. Dear Lord of the Abba Cry, Help me in my duress to endure it well enough and to say, . . . 'Nevertheless.'†- Neal A. Maxwell
“When from Thy stern tutoring, I would quickly flee, turn me from my Tarshish to where is best for me. Help me in my Nineveh to serve with love and truth; not on a hillside posted, mid shade of gourd or booth. When my modest suffering seems so vexing, wrong, and sore, may I recall what freely flowed from each and every pore. Dear Lord of the Abba Cry, Help me in my duress to endure it well enough and to say, . . . 'Nevertheless.'†- Neal A. Maxwell
#8
nicolasconnault
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 02:29 AM
Rob Bowman, on 27 July 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:
Do Mormons believe {doctrine}? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Mormons you ask, and it depends on what you mean by {doctrine}.
In my experience, associating with a given religion doesn't guarantee a fixed set of beliefs. Although there is a certain form of statistical uniformity (normal distribution?) in beliefs amongst LDS, there is also a definite standard deviation. Variations in doctrinal sources alone do not account for all this variation, and in fact I would wager that they account for far less variation than do individual differences.
Intelligence is defined by a single variable: whether or not you understand the word "dichotomy".
#9
Flyonthewall
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 05:36 AM
Really, what is the big deal? The scriptures state that all that believe are saved, but then they also say all will be judged by their works.
I have heard Evangelicals say that there are stages of salvation, and rewards will be different for different people in heaven.
Really, what is the difference?
You use the term "salvation" in the EV world, but it does not translate well into the LDS world.
The simple fact is: that we can do nothing of ourselves to "earn" salvation. It is only through the atonement of Christ that our actions or works have any value. All blessings that are given are predicated on obedience to the laws they are based on.
Very simply put, if we can abide the Celestial law we can enter the Celestial Kingdom. If we can only abide by the Terrestial law , then it is the Terrestial kingdom. And if we can abide by neither of those laws, then it is the Telestial kingdom.
We rise as high as we allow ourselves under the laws of heaven, but then again, it is only because Christ has given us a way to do so.
Whether or not we can abide by a certain law means obedience to it.
All this fuss about LDS earning our way into heaven, is something those that don't understand LDS doctrine try to prove, and all it does is show they really don't understand.
I have heard Evangelicals say that there are stages of salvation, and rewards will be different for different people in heaven.
Really, what is the difference?
You use the term "salvation" in the EV world, but it does not translate well into the LDS world.
The simple fact is: that we can do nothing of ourselves to "earn" salvation. It is only through the atonement of Christ that our actions or works have any value. All blessings that are given are predicated on obedience to the laws they are based on.
Very simply put, if we can abide the Celestial law we can enter the Celestial Kingdom. If we can only abide by the Terrestial law , then it is the Terrestial kingdom. And if we can abide by neither of those laws, then it is the Telestial kingdom.
We rise as high as we allow ourselves under the laws of heaven, but then again, it is only because Christ has given us a way to do so.
Whether or not we can abide by a certain law means obedience to it.
All this fuss about LDS earning our way into heaven, is something those that don't understand LDS doctrine try to prove, and all it does is show they really don't understand.
Edited by Flyonthewall, 28 July 2010 - 05:38 AM.
#10
cdowis
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 06:19 AM
The issue here is what is meant by "earn salvation".
The traditional meaning, the meaning used by the scribes and Pharasees, is that we are saved solely by our own works absent the grace of God, and the atonement of Christ. We clearly do not accept that doctrine, as you well know, that we alone are able to work our way into salvation (for our purposes, let's use salvation to mean exaltation).
"Nobody can buy or give us salvation in our Father’s kingdom; we earn it through divine service, performing every requirement made of us from on high.” (Heber C. Iverson, 1922)
Here the word "earn" is clearly defined as performing every requirement, etc, not the traditional definition of works without grace. You are distorting and wresting our actual doctrines.
Rob, I advised you to be aware of Peter's warning,
2 Pe 3 [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Works are necessary for salvation, and if we use the word "earn", it means it in that context. The grace of God and the atonement are essential to our salvation, AND YOU KNOW IT.
The traditional meaning, the meaning used by the scribes and Pharasees, is that we are saved solely by our own works absent the grace of God, and the atonement of Christ. We clearly do not accept that doctrine, as you well know, that we alone are able to work our way into salvation (for our purposes, let's use salvation to mean exaltation).
"Nobody can buy or give us salvation in our Father’s kingdom; we earn it through divine service, performing every requirement made of us from on high.” (Heber C. Iverson, 1922)
Here the word "earn" is clearly defined as performing every requirement, etc, not the traditional definition of works without grace. You are distorting and wresting our actual doctrines.
Rob, I advised you to be aware of Peter's warning,
2 Pe 3 [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Works are necessary for salvation, and if we use the word "earn", it means it in that context. The grace of God and the atonement are essential to our salvation, AND YOU KNOW IT.
Edited by cdowis, 28 July 2010 - 06:20 AM.
#11
David T
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 06:58 AM
I had been engaging Rob specifically on this topic in the other thread, but (most likelyand quite understandably because of his recent health issues and time commitment concerns) he did not continue. I'll repost the moat relevant parts of the latest response I gave him in that thread. ( In addition, I also appreciated it, Rob, if you would be able to respond to the part omitted here back in the other thread, inquiring if my modified laying out of beliefs was accurate.)
Please note the part I underlined. That is the substance of my point! Please read that in connection with my statements.
I don't seem him saying that it 'simply' (which in context, I read you as intending 'merely' and 'only') makes up for our failings'. It does, however, further illustrate the effects of such grace.
Which is generally a manifestation of the desire. If one has a sincere desire, they do do all that they can, and each individual's capacity and visible manifestation thereon if different, based on their own unique circumstances. My best is not the same as someone's else's best. The covenants and ordinances are tools that empower us with the ability to increase the capacity of the nature of 'our best', and thus not only have greater joy in this life, but be of greater use to bettering the lives of our fellow man.
Rob Bowman, on 16 July 2010 - 12:15 PM, said:
You quoted a 2006 conference talk by Elder Richard G. Scott, but I think you missed something. Scott, like numerous other LDS leaders, affirms that we must earn our salvation. Immediately after the paragraph you quoted, Scott has this to say:
"The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life. The Redeemer can settle your individual account with justice and grant forgiveness through the merciful path of your repentance. Through the Atonement you can live in a world where justice assures that you will retain what you earn by obedience. Through His mercy you can resolve the consequences of broken laws."
"The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life. The Redeemer can settle your individual account with justice and grant forgiveness through the merciful path of your repentance. Through the Atonement you can live in a world where justice assures that you will retain what you earn by obedience. Through His mercy you can resolve the consequences of broken laws."
Please note the part I underlined. That is the substance of my point! Please read that in connection with my statements.
Quote
Scott goes on to argue, again as so many other LDS leaders have affirmed, that the grace of God simply makes up for our failings, as long as we have put forth our "best efforts" and done everything we can possibly do in the way of obedience:
"His mercy pays our debt to justice when we repent and obey Him. Since with even our best efforts to obey His teachings we will still fall short, because of His grace we will be 'saved, after all we can do'" (citing 2 Ne. 25:23).
"His mercy pays our debt to justice when we repent and obey Him. Since with even our best efforts to obey His teachings we will still fall short, because of His grace we will be 'saved, after all we can do'" (citing 2 Ne. 25:23).
I don't seem him saying that it 'simply' (which in context, I read you as intending 'merely' and 'only') makes up for our failings'. It does, however, further illustrate the effects of such grace.
Quote
You also quoted D&C 84:41, "But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come." You interpreted this to mean that as long as a person desires to obey Christ, he will attain individual salvation. However, I don't think this is quite correct. The point seems to be that those who break the covenant have no chance of restoration. You can argue from this text that those who simply fall into sin can be restored, in contrast to those who deliberately break the covenant and turn away from it, but that doesn't mean that all the priesthood-holder has to do to attain individual salvation is not deliberately walk away from his covenant. Rather, the standard LDS position seems to be that he must do everything he can, work as hard as he can, and be as obedient as he can, if he is to attain individual salvation.
Which is generally a manifestation of the desire. If one has a sincere desire, they do do all that they can, and each individual's capacity and visible manifestation thereon if different, based on their own unique circumstances. My best is not the same as someone's else's best. The covenants and ordinances are tools that empower us with the ability to increase the capacity of the nature of 'our best', and thus not only have greater joy in this life, but be of greater use to bettering the lives of our fellow man.
Edited by nackhadlow, 28 July 2010 - 07:55 AM.
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David T was formerly known here at MD&D as nackhadlow
#12
David T
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:04 AM
For additional context, the above was a response to his response of this post earlier on:
I was taking the principle of D&C 130, and applying it to the principles of Salvation. It appears the rest of my post, which explained what was meant by this, was un-addressed or misunderstood. It explains how the Atonement of Christ is what gives our actions value as 'merit'. the latter portion of the post is reproduced here with additional underlined emphases.:
Under Justification in the Covenant of Christ, our faults do not count against us as they would through the Raw Law of Justice. But through the Mercy of the Justification of Christ, the obedience that we do based on the grace given us in His name is counted to us as righteousness due to the grace of the merits of Christ working within us. Christ allows us to reap the benefits of our obedience that otherwise we would not deserve.
I will reference a 2006 conference talk by Elder Richard G. Scott, which I believe does a good job of placing this into context.
It's a sign of the great humility and Love of the Savior to, at the Judgment, present the works we accomplished through Grace to be credited as our own, and to allow us to reap the rewards associated therein, all the while not bringing to the table the even more numerous things we had personally done which would completely remove our right to any such spiritual blessings and endowments.
Because of this, I believe it makes a mockery of the Savior for those who enter into such a Covenant to not take full advantage of what He has given us. All those who desire and strive to obey the Son will receive the benefits thereof. His grace is sufficient to save all who continue to have a desire to obey the savior and remain in Covenant with Him. All who do have the desire will be given, through grace, the divine strength and power necessary to do all he asks. (the 1 Nephi 3:7 principle). the only who will not accomplish these things are those who choose to, as the wording of D&C 84 puts it, "But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come." And why do they not have forgiveness? Not because they 'didn't live up', but because they, in knowledge, rejected, 'altogether turned from' the Covenant of Christ.
It's a far more detailed and explicit of the simplified concept of "Those who are truly saved will automatically do the works of God". LDS have just been given what we believe to be more concrete markers as to what those are, and we also believe that the process can - and does - extend beyond death, up until the Resurrection.
The Lord will save us in our weakness, but not in our rebellion.
Again, from Mosiah 2: "And behold, all that he requires of you is to keep his commandments; and he has promised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth vary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do keep his commandments he doth bless you and prosper you. And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him. And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast?"
There will be no one, Latter-day Saint or otherwise, at the Last Day who stands cleansed before God and would say, "I did it. I earned this. I deserve this."
nackhadlow said:
Rob Bowman said:
I respect your right as an individual to believe whatever you believe, and to interpret LDS scripture any way you choose. However, I have to say that I don't agree that you have interpreted D&C 130 correctly, and I don't think most LDS leaders or teachers would agree with you, either. As I understand it, and as I see most LDS teachers explaining it, D&C 130:18-21 is a law to which everyone remains subject and has to do with how far each individual advances spiritually. The passage leaves no room, so far as I can see, for the explanation that Christ keeps that law on our behalf. That is a nice, evangelical-sounding way of explaining it, but it is not the customary LDS way of explaining it, and it doesn't fit the passage.
I was taking the principle of D&C 130, and applying it to the principles of Salvation. It appears the rest of my post, which explained what was meant by this, was un-addressed or misunderstood. It explains how the Atonement of Christ is what gives our actions value as 'merit'. the latter portion of the post is reproduced here with additional underlined emphases.:
Under Justification in the Covenant of Christ, our faults do not count against us as they would through the Raw Law of Justice. But through the Mercy of the Justification of Christ, the obedience that we do based on the grace given us in His name is counted to us as righteousness due to the grace of the merits of Christ working within us. Christ allows us to reap the benefits of our obedience that otherwise we would not deserve.
I will reference a 2006 conference talk by Elder Richard G. Scott, which I believe does a good job of placing this into context.
Elder Richard G. Scott said:
Each of us makes mistakes in life. They result in broken eternal laws. Justice is that part of Father in Heaven’s plan of happiness that maintains order. It is like gravity to a rock climber, ever present. It is a friend if eternal laws are observed. It responds to your detriment if they are ignored. Justice guarantees that you will receive the blessings you earn for obeying the laws of God. Justice also requires that every broken law be satisfied. When you obey the laws of God, you are blessed, but there is no additional credit earned that can be saved to satisfy the laws that you break. If not resolved, broken laws can cause your life to be miserable and would keep you from returning to God. Only the life, teachings, and particularly the Atonement of Jesus Christ can release you from this otherwise impossible predicament.
It's a sign of the great humility and Love of the Savior to, at the Judgment, present the works we accomplished through Grace to be credited as our own, and to allow us to reap the rewards associated therein, all the while not bringing to the table the even more numerous things we had personally done which would completely remove our right to any such spiritual blessings and endowments.
Because of this, I believe it makes a mockery of the Savior for those who enter into such a Covenant to not take full advantage of what He has given us. All those who desire and strive to obey the Son will receive the benefits thereof. His grace is sufficient to save all who continue to have a desire to obey the savior and remain in Covenant with Him. All who do have the desire will be given, through grace, the divine strength and power necessary to do all he asks. (the 1 Nephi 3:7 principle). the only who will not accomplish these things are those who choose to, as the wording of D&C 84 puts it, "But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come." And why do they not have forgiveness? Not because they 'didn't live up', but because they, in knowledge, rejected, 'altogether turned from' the Covenant of Christ.
It's a far more detailed and explicit of the simplified concept of "Those who are truly saved will automatically do the works of God". LDS have just been given what we believe to be more concrete markers as to what those are, and we also believe that the process can - and does - extend beyond death, up until the Resurrection.
The Lord will save us in our weakness, but not in our rebellion.
Again, from Mosiah 2: "And behold, all that he requires of you is to keep his commandments; and he has promised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth vary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do keep his commandments he doth bless you and prosper you. And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him. And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast?"
There will be no one, Latter-day Saint or otherwise, at the Last Day who stands cleansed before God and would say, "I did it. I earned this. I deserve this."
Edited by nackhadlow, 28 July 2010 - 07:56 AM.
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#13
Sevenbak
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:10 AM
Quote mining at it's finest.
If you go back and give us the paragraphs surrounding all these, it would be very enlightening to this discussion.
I'm sure as Paul told the Philippians to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.", you'd appreciate the full context, eh?
If you go back and give us the paragraphs surrounding all these, it would be very enlightening to this discussion.
I'm sure as Paul told the Philippians to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.", you'd appreciate the full context, eh?
Two great American Christian civilizations, the Jaredites and the Nephites, were swept off this land because they did not serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ. (Ether 2:12) What will become of our civilization?" - President Benson, October Conference, 1987
"It is my meditation all the day, and more than my meat and drink, to know how I shall make the Saints of God comprehend the visions that roll like an overflowing surge before my mind." - Joseph Smith
"It is my meditation all the day, and more than my meat and drink, to know how I shall make the Saints of God comprehend the visions that roll like an overflowing surge before my mind." - Joseph Smith
#14
Vookman
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Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:09 AM
Rob Bowman produces a great list of quotes on half of the salvation issue by these people. I will not take the time this morning to get quotes on the exclusive ability of Jesus Christ to work the atonement which is the only way to even have a chance to "earn" one's salvation. But I have read from almost all of the authors on the list, and they believe that Jesus Christ's atonement was essential to our salvation. In other words, "earn" is a relative term when discussing our works, since salvation is impossible in the absence of the Atonement of Jesus.
To me, this is the tragedy of the EV attack on the LDS position. I wrote a brochure for my street "ministry" to anti-Mormons and critics many years ago outlining that the selective application of requirements for salvation by EV and others is highly inconsistent, to say the least. You cannot ignore the need for harmonization of identical terms (saved/salvation) being used in extremely diverse situations:
I think the point is easy to say. You can't logically maintain that you are saved solely by Grace, and ignore the need to endure, be holy, etc, which are given equal weight in scripture for the impact to salvation. Only a theology with embraces all of the elements which scripture requires for salvation could possibly be true, and even that could be in error if it is the work of man and not God.
It is easy to determine, however, which philosophies cannot be true based on what the measuring stick (scripture) defines as the elements contributing to salvation. Any philosophy which is "grace only", "faith only" or any other "only" is demonstrably false by simply appealing to the same source they attempt to cite for support. I however prefer to emphasize the positive, which is that only the LDS position embraces all elements of salvation taught in scripture, which is what I think you could easily demonstrate from the statements of these authors, if one were to actually read all of their writings. Funny no one accused them while they were living of not believing in Grace as essential to salvation. Well, not completely true, since when they were accused of such things (such as McConkie was), they did respond by teaching the essential role of Grace and the Atonement. It is just were are not an "only"-philosophy kind of Church, except about the Church.:-)
Peace,
Bob
To me, this is the tragedy of the EV attack on the LDS position. I wrote a brochure for my street "ministry" to anti-Mormons and critics many years ago outlining that the selective application of requirements for salvation by EV and others is highly inconsistent, to say the least. You cannot ignore the need for harmonization of identical terms (saved/salvation) being used in extremely diverse situations:
Quote
He who believes and is baptized, the same shall be saved (Mark 16:16)
He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (Matt 24:13, also Matt 10:22, Mark 13:13)
Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them who obey him (Heb 5:9)
[Woman] shall be saved in child bearing, if [she]continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety (1 Tim 2:15)
[God] will have all men to be saved ( 1 Tim 2:4)
...he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:20)
"Moreover Brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain."(1 Cor 15:1-2)
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (2 Cor 7:10)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.(Rom 10:9)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Eph 2:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Titus 3:5)
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (1 Pet 4:18)
He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. (Matt 24:13, also Matt 10:22, Mark 13:13)
Jesus became the author of eternal salvation unto all them who obey him (Heb 5:9)
[Woman] shall be saved in child bearing, if [she]continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety (1 Tim 2:15)
[God] will have all men to be saved ( 1 Tim 2:4)
...he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:20)
"Moreover Brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain."(1 Cor 15:1-2)
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (2 Cor 7:10)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.(Rom 10:9)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Eph 2:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Titus 3:5)
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (1 Pet 4:18)
It is easy to determine, however, which philosophies cannot be true based on what the measuring stick (scripture) defines as the elements contributing to salvation. Any philosophy which is "grace only", "faith only" or any other "only" is demonstrably false by simply appealing to the same source they attempt to cite for support. I however prefer to emphasize the positive, which is that only the LDS position embraces all elements of salvation taught in scripture, which is what I think you could easily demonstrate from the statements of these authors, if one were to actually read all of their writings. Funny no one accused them while they were living of not believing in Grace as essential to salvation. Well, not completely true, since when they were accused of such things (such as McConkie was), they did respond by teaching the essential role of Grace and the Atonement. It is just were are not an "only"-philosophy kind of Church, except about the Church.:-)
Peace,
Bob
Bob V.
Anti-Anti Blog
"The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool."
STEPHEN KING, Needful Things
Anti-Anti Blog
"The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool."
STEPHEN KING, Needful Things
#15
BCSpace
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Right Divider of Systematic LDS Theology
Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:21 AM
Quote
Wouldn't matter if those quotes are found in Church publications which are the standard for doctrine. Btw, didn't Paul essentially imply salvation is earned when he said he hadn't "apprehended" it yet in Philippians 3:11-14?
Quote
Should we go over the whole Correlation story again?
Why? It's not published by the Church. The article I link to in my siggy is though.
BYU Combined Choirs perform "Come Thou Fount Of Every Blessing"
LDS doctrine defined. The first bullet point is the key.
Capitalism from the Lord: Law of Consecration.
Evolution Primer Evolution does not conflict with LDS doctrine in any way.
LDS doctrine defined. The first bullet point is the key.
Capitalism from the Lord: Law of Consecration.
Evolution Primer Evolution does not conflict with LDS doctrine in any way.
#16
Rob Bowman
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Boldly going where no evangelical apologist has gone before
Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:38 AM
Sevenbak,
I'm guessing that most Mormons here would have access to resources that will provide the context of these quotations. My post was quite lengthy as it was; providing larger amounts of context for each quotation would have made it much longer.
If you suspect that a particular quotation has been taken out of context, let me know which one, and I will provide the context. But I can assure you that none has been taken out of context.
I'm guessing that most Mormons here would have access to resources that will provide the context of these quotations. My post was quite lengthy as it was; providing larger amounts of context for each quotation would have made it much longer.
If you suspect that a particular quotation has been taken out of context, let me know which one, and I will provide the context. But I can assure you that none has been taken out of context.
Sevenbak, on 28 July 2010 - 07:10 AM, said:
Quote mining at it's finest.
If you go back and give us the paragraphs surrounding all these, it would be very enlightening to this discussion.
I'm sure as Paul told the Philippians to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.", you'd appreciate the full context, eh?
If you go back and give us the paragraphs surrounding all these, it would be very enlightening to this discussion.
I'm sure as Paul told the Philippians to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.", you'd appreciate the full context, eh?
Rob Bowman
Director of Research, Institute for Religious Research
"BYU faculty members do not speak for the church."--Michael Purdy, LDS Church spokesman.
Director of Research, Institute for Religious Research
"BYU faculty members do not speak for the church."--Michael Purdy, LDS Church spokesman.
#17
Zakuska
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Captain Zinger to the Rescue
Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:43 AM
frankenstein, on 27 July 2010 - 10:28 PM, said:
a person must have both faith and good works
good works are a part of what faith is.
"Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.” -- Martin Luther
"Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!" -- Martin Luther
"Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!" -- Martin Luther
#18
Rob Bowman
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Boldly going where no evangelical apologist has gone before
Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:45 AM
Vanguard,
Not one man "speaking as a prophet" in the history of the LDS Church has ever denied that salvation must be earned. Most of the men who have served as prophet did their most extensive writing and speaking before they became the prophet; in several cases they held that office for just a few years. The fact that so many of the men who became the prophet taught that salvation must be earned, and that none who denies this teaching has ever become the prophet, is worth noting. So your point really doesn't have any relevance.
Not one man "speaking as a prophet" in the history of the LDS Church has ever denied that salvation must be earned. Most of the men who have served as prophet did their most extensive writing and speaking before they became the prophet; in several cases they held that office for just a few years. The fact that so many of the men who became the prophet taught that salvation must be earned, and that none who denies this teaching has ever become the prophet, is worth noting. So your point really doesn't have any relevance.
Vanguard, on 27 July 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:
Thank you for the extensive list. As an aside, it has been some 60 years since anyone speaking as prophet actually made the claim that we can earn our salvation. The vast majority of your quotes involve quite notable leaders before they ever became president - the first one being George Albert Smith in 1950. It's been 60 years...
Rob Bowman
Director of Research, Institute for Religious Research
"BYU faculty members do not speak for the church."--Michael Purdy, LDS Church spokesman.
Director of Research, Institute for Religious Research
"BYU faculty members do not speak for the church."--Michael Purdy, LDS Church spokesman.
#19
Vance
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Chief Pharisee and Vindictive Goat
Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:47 AM
Rob Bowman, on 27 July 2010 - 10:22 PM, said:
Do Mormons believe they must earn their salvation? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Mormons you ask, and it depends on what you mean by salvation.
Do Methodists believe doctrine? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Methodist you ask, and it depends on what you mean doctrine.
Do Protestants believe doctrine? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Protestant you ask, and it depends on what you mean doctrine.
Do Catholics believe doctrine? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Catholic you ask, and it depends on what you mean doctrine.
Do Muslims believe doctrine? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Muslim you ask, and it depends on what you mean doctrine.
Do Buddhists believe doctrine? The answer to this question is: It depends on which Buddhist you ask, and it depends on what you mean doctrine.
Hummm. Strange how that is.
"Remember kids! In order to maintain an untenable position, you have to be actively ignorant." Stephen Colbert
"Because some people need to be dealt with reality, they have been coddled their whole lives, and when they're morons I have the guts and the compassion to let them know that they're morons." Mark Levin.
"Vance is truly the devil's right hand man and his multiplicity of sins testifies to that." & "Your heart is truly filled with evil, a true thistle through and through." Echo of the "truth in love ministry".
"Because some people need to be dealt with reality, they have been coddled their whole lives, and when they're morons I have the guts and the compassion to let them know that they're morons." Mark Levin.
"Vance is truly the devil's right hand man and his multiplicity of sins testifies to that." & "Your heart is truly filled with evil, a true thistle through and through." Echo of the "truth in love ministry".
#20
SlackTime
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Brings Forth Plants
Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:50 AM
There really is no need to argue with Rob on this, we really are in violent agreement, except that he wishes to paint a picture that makes it otherwise.
He creates something that he calls "general salvation" and another thing that he calls "individual salvation" when in fact we already have two words for this. We call it Salvation and Exaltation, and both are individual.
Because in Adam all die, even so in Christ all are made alive, This is individual physical death and individually being saved from death and resurrected. This isn't "general salvation it is individual and is called Salvation from death. Through sin all have died and through Christ all can be made alive. This is called Spiritual Death and Spiritual Salvation. We are not judged for Adam's transgression, but stand condemned because of our own sins. Through Christ we can put off our sins and be made pure before God. Eventually, "every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Lord" and all who obtain an inheritance in Heavenly Father's Kingdom will be purified and given that inheritance by Christ, whatever Kingdom of Glory they obtain.
Exaltation comes from following Jesus Christ who is our Redeemer and Judge. When we stand before Christ as He promised we will, we will be judged according to our works and given a reward by Him. This is attested in numerous parables and statements by the Lord.
Without Christ we could not obtain any Kingdom of Glory, we could not return to God at all. With Christ we can both return to God and become perfected, justified, and sanctified, and gain our exaltation as heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.
- SlackTime
He creates something that he calls "general salvation" and another thing that he calls "individual salvation" when in fact we already have two words for this. We call it Salvation and Exaltation, and both are individual.
Because in Adam all die, even so in Christ all are made alive, This is individual physical death and individually being saved from death and resurrected. This isn't "general salvation it is individual and is called Salvation from death. Through sin all have died and through Christ all can be made alive. This is called Spiritual Death and Spiritual Salvation. We are not judged for Adam's transgression, but stand condemned because of our own sins. Through Christ we can put off our sins and be made pure before God. Eventually, "every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Lord" and all who obtain an inheritance in Heavenly Father's Kingdom will be purified and given that inheritance by Christ, whatever Kingdom of Glory they obtain.
Exaltation comes from following Jesus Christ who is our Redeemer and Judge. When we stand before Christ as He promised we will, we will be judged according to our works and given a reward by Him. This is attested in numerous parables and statements by the Lord.
Without Christ we could not obtain any Kingdom of Glory, we could not return to God at all. With Christ we can both return to God and become perfected, justified, and sanctified, and gain our exaltation as heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.
- SlackTime
Engineer to Management; "I can design it good, I can design it fast, I can design it cheap, it's your call... Pick two out of the three."
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