Top 10 Latter-day Saint teachings that could CHANGE

[Frank11]

15 hours ago, bluebell said:

Obviously he doesn’t if he’s aligned himself and actively supports and sustains a church and church leaders that don’t have integrity, right?

I don't think that the rest of the church leaders don't have integrity and I'm sure Uchtdorf doesn't think that of his colleagues either, but they come from different cultures with different mindsets.

Nelson and Oaks grew up with the problematic church history. They have internalized the doctrines, such as polygamy, and do not question them. I don't know exactly when Uchtdorf gained extensive knowledge of church history, probably when he became an apostle.

He is certainly convinced that the church is good for people, he also believes that the church is the only true one. But he is enough of a realist to know that it could be otherwise, at least that not everything Joseph Smith did was commanded by God.

I don't think Nelson trusts Uchtdorf 100% in terms of unconditional loyalty to the Church.
That's not a problem with Oaks, of course.  

 

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, Frank11 said:

I don't think that the rest of the church leaders don't have integrity and I'm sure Uchtdorf doesn't think that of his colleagues either, but they come from different cultures with different mindsets.

Nelson and Oaks grew up with the problematic church history. They have internalized the doctrines, such as polygamy, and do not question them. I don't know exactly when Uchtdorf gained extensive knowledge of church history, probably when he became an apostle.

He is certainly convinced that the church is good for people, he also believes that the church is the only true one. But he is enough of a realist to know that it could be otherwise, at least that not everything Joseph Smith did was commanded by God.

I don't think Nelson trusts Uchtdorf 100% in terms of unconditional loyalty to the Church.
That's not a problem with Oaks, of course.  

 

Integrity is when your actions match your beliefs. I’m confused about how you feel Uchtdorf has more integrity than the others if you believe they are all doing what they sincerely believe. Maybe I misunderstood?

Do you personally know Uchtdorf?  You are presenting some information about him (that he knows the JS did things that weren’t commanded by God, etc) as fact.  I'm also unsure how you are so sure that Pres. Nelson and Oaks have never question any doctrines of the church?

 

Edited April 6, 2025 by bluebell

[Mark Beesley]

On 4/2/2025 at 9:26 AM, halconero said:

1. The Word of Wisdom.
2. Facial hair for Church leaders.
3. Changes to temple ordinances.
4. Women giving blessings of healing.
5. Gender-neutral Sunday School presidencies (i.e., allow for all-male or all-female presidencies).
6. Gender-neutral Primary presidencies (ditto).
7. Allowing non-white clothes in the temple.
8. Shift in tithing emphasis to either stricter (towards something like the United Order) or looser.
9. Change to mission criteria, length, attire, etc.
10. Changes to the administration of the sacrament (e.g., letting women or unordained young men pass).

For what it's worth, I went in expecting it to advocate for various changes. Instead, I found it to be more of a historical overview of the history and practice of Church ordinances, standards, and practices. Put succinctly, it highlights area of the Church that have the most institutional flexibility (according to the views of the content creator).

The title of the thread is misleading. After the first point, the Word of Wisdom, all of these items touch on practices in the Church, not teachings, i.e. doctrines. And even the Word of Wisdom, by its own terms, can be characterized more as a recommendation as to heath practices rather than doctrine, and we have recently experienced changes in that practice.

As we experienced for many, many years, the Lord allows practices to persist in the Church that He likely would not insist upon. But He allows us some autonomy of practice in recognition of our fallen state. I believe the Lord does this to test our willingness to be humbly obedient, in preparation for an exalted state where perfect obedience is the only option.

If one even superficially considers the eternity of exalted beings—gods if you will—participating in the creative process to bring glory to Almighty God in the form of evolving intelligences with the view of a new generation of “spirit children” being adopted into the family of their Messiah, then one might begin to understand the depth of the Lord’s injunction, “If ye are not one, ye are not mine.”

Folks need to quit pining for change in the Church and concentrate more on change in their hearts.

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

The title of the thread is misleading. After the first point, the Word of Wisdom, all of these items touch on practices in the Church, not teachings, i.e. doctrines.

Teachings can include practices as well as concepts.

In fact sometimes we are taught practices first before we are taught doctrinal understanding of those practices.

Perhaps by “practices” you mean “policies”?

Edited April 8, 2025 by Calm

[Mark Beesley]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Teachings can include practices as well as concepts.

In fact sometimes we are taught practices first before we are taught doctrinal understanding of those practices.

Perhaps by “practices” you mean “policies”?

I suppose I should have been more precise in my original opening statement. I should have written, “The title of the thread mislead me.” I use teachings and doctrines as synonymous. Practice is the practical implementation of the doctrine or teaching based on best understanding. Policy is a non-doctrinal justification for a non-doctrinal driven practice. For example, the Church has a policy of political neutrality which leads to specific practices, like disallowing Church buildings for political rallies, etc. There is no doctrine I am aware of touching on political neutrality. 

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

I use teachings and doctrines as synonymous.

I think that can be problematic as I see teachings even if talking about concepts as broader than doctrine.

For example, I see the name of our Church as doctrine given it was revealed.  I see Pres. Nelson’s comments attached to the name of the Church and its nickname “Mormon” mainly teachings and not doctrinal as defined by the Church.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

 

Edited April 9, 2025 by Calm

[Mark Beesley]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think that can be problematic as I see teachings even if talking about concepts as broader than doctrine.

For example, I see the name of our Church as doctrine given it was revealed.  I see Pres. Nelson’s comments attached to the name of the Church and its nickname “Mormon” mainly teachings and not doctrinal as defined by the Church.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine

 

Ok.😇

[Stargazer]

23 hours ago, Mark Beesley said:

The title of the thread is misleading.

Perhaps, but the thread title is the title of the video. I thought they should match.

[Mark Beesley]

15 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Perhaps, but the thread title is the title of the video. I thought they should match.

That makes sense.😃

[Frank11]

On 4/6/2025 at 7:50 PM, bluebell said:

1. Do you personally know Uchtdorf? 

2. You are presenting some information about him (that he knows the JS did things that weren’t commanded by God, etc) as fact. 

1. Although I received the Melchizedek Priesthood from President Uchtdorf at the time, I would say that I learned most about him from my father, who was a stake secretary under him for several years. My father was a very critical person, but he was always full of praise for Uchtdorf and the working relationship with him. The positive impression that many members have of Elder Uchtdorf and also of his wife Harriet is absolutely correct. One sentence from him in the GC 2013 was certainly noteworthy. "To be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes." Saying that is integrity.

2.  I said "But he is enough of a realist to know that it could be otherwise, at least that not everything Joseph Smith did was commanded by God." That doesn't mean it's a fact, just that it could be. Perhaps it comes across incorrectly due to the translation.

 

Edited April 19, 2025 by Frank11

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, Frank11 said:

1. Although I received the Melchizedek Priesthood from President Uchtdorf at the time, I would say that I learned most about him from my father, who was a stake secretary under him for several years. My father was a very critical person, but he was always full of praise for Uchtdorf and the working relationship with him. The positive impression that many members have of Elder Uchtdorf and also of his wife Harriet is absolutely correct. One sentence from him in the GC 2013 was certainly noteworthy. "To be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the Church have simply made mistakes." Saying that is integrity.

2.  I said "But he is enough of a realist to know that it could be otherwise, at least that not everything Joseph Smith did was commanded by God." That doesn't mean it's a fact, just that it could be. Perhaps it comes across incorrectly due to the translation.

 

Thanks for the added info.  Can I ask why Pres. Uchtdorf ordained you and not your father?  I'm being nosey and I'm not asking as a gotcha or anything.  It just made me curious how that came about.

[Frank11]

15 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Thanks for the added info.  Can I ask why Pres. Uchtdorf ordained you and not your father?  I'm being nosey and I'm not asking as a gotcha or anything.  It just made me curious how that came about.

Unfortunately I don't know anymore, it's been over 30 years. Shouldn't that always be done by the stake president?

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, Frank11 said:

Unfortunately I don't know anymore, it's been over 30 years. Shouldn't that always be done by the stake president?

It's pretty rare, unless the person is related to the stake president or some special circumstances.