The Last Republic (alternate history novel)

[Stargazer]

I'm quite unsure if this is the right forum for this. But here we go.

Ryan McBeth, an author and commentator I am somewhat acquainted with online, is about to publish a new novel, The Last Republic. The novel is an alternate history where the Mormons out west decided in 1849 to start their own country, Deseret, instead of becoming a US state. The novel is set in our day (i.e. our modern times). The novel will probably be out in a month or so. I know somewhat about the novel because I was a volunteer "beta reader," and was given about the first third of the novel to read. Given the background of the novel I thought it might be interesting to post about it here. 

About Ryan: he is not LDS, but as he told me when I asked about his apparent knowledge of the Book of Mormon, he responded "I read BoM about 20 years ago when there were a bunch of LDS guys in my platoon and I wanted to relate to them better." According to his own website: "Ryan spent 20 years as an anti-armor and heavy weapons infantryman with two overseas deployments and developed C4ISR software for Accenture Federal Services. He lives in Silver Spring, Maryland with a large humidor and whiskey library."

The novel's "blurb" as it appears on Ryan's website: "In 1849, Brigham Young founds the Republic of Deseret instead of the Utah Territory. By 2025 Deseret is a modern theocratic republic and heavily aligned with Iran. Events place Deseret on a collision course with the worlds last superpower: The United States of America. How far will a nation go to protect its identity, and what price will it pay?"

I was rather intrigued by a military unit patch created for the novel, that is the emblem of Captain Moroni Squadron of the Deseret Air Force.

FWIW, the motto of the squadron, "Fiat Lux, Fiat Victoria," is Latin for "Let there be light, let there be victory."

I apologize for posting something that we can't really discuss without the content of the novel being available! 

Edited March 4, 2025 by Stargazer

[Calm]

8 hours ago, Stargazer said:

"I read BoM about 20 years ago when there were a bunch of LDS guys in my platoon and I wanted to relate to them better.

Like his attitude.  Good one for an author to have.

Would have been a cooler patch if it used the Deseret Alphabet 

Edited March 4, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

8 hours ago, Stargazer said:

By 2025 Deseret is a modern theocratic republic and heavily aligned with Iran.

Got to wonder what Iran is supposed to be like.  Doesn’t seem a likely pairing with the actual Iran.

Wonder what happened to China and Russia.  Maybe they took each other out.

[halconero]

I'd be curious to know if Deseret is essentially just modern Utah, the Great Basin, or something akin to the State of Deseret that was originally proposed. I can't imagine a landlocked Deseret lasting any length of time or having any significant relationship with Iran.

For reference, here's the original state that was proposed, complete with Los Angeles and San Diego.

[Dario_M]

I don't really read so much anymore (actually i don't read at all). Maybe some film director should make a movie about the Mormon history. 🎬

[Stargazer]

On 3/4/2025 at 9:53 PM, Calm said:

Got to wonder what Iran is supposed to be like.  Doesn’t seem a likely pairing with the actual Iran.

I raised that point with him, to which he responded: "Regarding Iran, they are allied because... well, I need bad guys. And Iran are really the bad guys here." The pairing is due more to having a common potential enemy -- the enemy being the US. Along with the text of the portion of the novel with which I was provided was a background historical timeline. And in that timeline the United States and Deseret were not big friends. After Deseret's independence there are years and years of border skirmishes and disputes. In 1931 the US invades a portion of Deseret, but is defeated. The timeline states: "Deseret and Iran establish covert diplomatic ties after the Iranian Revolution due to shared anti-U.S. sentiment." 

On 3/4/2025 at 9:53 PM, Calm said:

Wonder what happened to China and Russia.  Maybe they took each other out.

No. They are both there. In the timeline, the Soviet Union dissolves in the same timeframe. 

In the timeline, Deseret is neutral in the Civil War and both World Wars. 

[Stargazer]

On 3/5/2025 at 8:37 PM, halconero said:

I'd be curious to know if Deseret is essentially just modern Utah, the Great Basin, or something akin to the State of Deseret that was originally proposed. I can't imagine a landlocked Deseret lasting any length of time or having any significant relationship with Iran.

For reference, here's the original state that was proposed, complete with Los Angeles and San Diego.

I believe he does use a version of that map. Definitely that Los Angeles is on the border with the US, in US territory. Also part of northern Arizona was originally in his Deseret, but in 1931 the US government invaded it because they objected to Deseret building the Boulder Dam. That war fails, and the US loses all of northern Arizona to the 34°50' parallel.

[The Nehor]

On 3/7/2025 at 9:15 AM, Stargazer said:

I raised that point with him, to which he responded: "Regarding Iran, they are allied because... well, I need bad guys. And Iran are really the bad guys here." The pairing is due more to having a common potential enemy -- the enemy being the US. Along with the text of the portion of the novel with which I was provided was a background historical timeline. And in that timeline the United States and Deseret were not big friends. After Deseret's independence there are years and years of border skirmishes and disputes. In 1931 the US invades a portion of Deseret, but is defeated. The timeline states: "Deseret and Iran establish covert diplomatic ties after the Iranian Revolution due to shared anti-U.S. sentiment." 

No. They are both there. In the timeline, the Soviet Union dissolves in the same timeframe. 

In the timeline, Deseret is neutral in the Civil War and both World Wars. 

I can’t see Iran and Deseret having any significant ties beyond moral support. Iran isn’t a big exporter of military hardware and resource wise has little to offer. Also if a conflict broke out between the US and Deseret Deseret would be blockaded with ease.

A more likely partner would be an uneasy partnership with Mexico with maybe support from adversaries to the United States. If set in modern day China and to a lesser extent Russia would probably try to support this thorn in the side of the US. Another possible semi-ally would be India who tend to be a bit of a wild card in geopolitics though not a major weapon producer which is probably what Deseret would need if they are a US adversary.

Sorry, I know it is not your book but got me thinking.

[Stargazer]

42 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I can’t see Iran and Deseret having any significant ties beyond moral support. Iran isn’t a big exporter of military hardware and resource wise has little to offer. Also if a conflict broke out between the US and Deseret Deseret would be blockaded with ease.

Well, I certainly wouldn't have written it that way!

But you have to understand that the book's "present" comes after a very divergent history from the founding of Deseret as a republic in 1849. It includes a good deal of hostility between the US and Deseret. I don't know if Deseret would be easily blockaded, because in the book it owns the California coast from just south of Los Angeles down to the Mexican border. So, the port of San Diego, in other words. McBeth hasn't said a single thing in regards to the Deseret Navy, so I couldn't comment on blockadability.

42 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

A more likely partner would be an uneasy partnership with Mexico with maybe support from adversaries to the United States. If set in modern day China and to a lesser extent Russia would probably try to support this thorn in the side of the US. Another possible semi-ally would be India who tend to be a bit of a wild card in geopolitics though not a major weapon producer which is probably what Deseret would need if they are a US adversary.

I think the reason why he selected Iran as the alliance partner is because it brings Eurasia into the mix more than Mexico would have. As a beta reader I don't know if I am supposed to reveal any spoilers. He didn't tell me not to, and didn't have me agree to an NDA. So maybe I can say that Iran is apparently going to betray Deseret in such a way as to provoke another war between the US and Deseret. Or so it seems from the text I was given to read, and some things that he told me via email. And the sequels will develop those themes further.

Note that there are many current-day people and things being brought forward in the book, with some variant spellings, apparently. The president of Deseret is Mitt Romnet, for example. Note the T instead of the Y! This was in the book's chronology, but it may not survive into the final product, since it is awful close to the real person and the publisher might not like to risk a possible lawsuit. Also, Deseret has purchased a few squadrons of F-35s from the US. There seem to be a lot of other current-day names and terms. 

Ryan actually provided me the full text of the novel recently, so I could go off on spoilers if I felt malign. But I haven't yet read the rest of the book past the bit I read for the beta read.

42 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Sorry, I know it is not your book but got me thinking.

Got me thinking, too. But not about this story so much as how I started writing a science fiction novel a few years ago, intending to make it into a trilogy, if successful, but I ran out of steam. As I tend to do, with sometimes rampant attention deficit disorder. But this Deseret novel made me think I should go back to my novel and try working it out. Instead of a thriller, it's a first contact novel. I know how to write. Question is, can I really write fiction? I seem to have a good handle on non-fiction, at least. See the link to my latest book in my sig.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I can’t see Iran and Deseret having any significant ties beyond moral support. Iran isn’t a big exporter of military hardware and resource wise has little to offer. Also if a conflict broke out between the US and Deseret Deseret would be blockaded with ease.

A more likely partner would be an uneasy partnership with Mexico with maybe support from adversaries to the United States. If set in modern day China and to a lesser extent Russia would probably try to support this thorn in the side of the US. Another possible semi-ally would be India who tend to be a bit of a wild card in geopolitics though not a major weapon producer which is probably what Deseret would need if they are a US adversary.

Sorry, I know it is not your book but got me thinking.

That was my thinking in terms of Iran, what benefit would be the alliance?  They are too far away to provide trade resources that easily.  And manpower seems unlikely.

 

18 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

so I could go off on spoilers if I felt malign.

Don’t provide any more unless he tells you to in order to drum up interest.  An author should have the choice on what is revealed. He may have just assumed you would keep it confidential.

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Question is, can I really write fiction?

I can’t do dialogue.  Too unnatural.   Fiction is very different that way from non fiction. I think I am decent with descriptions. 

Edited March 11, 2025 by Calm

[Stargazer]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

I can’t do dialogue.  Too unnatural.   Fiction is very different that way from non fiction. I think I am decent with descriptions. 

Hmmph. I betcha you can do dialog. You just haven't tried hard enough. Check this out: "Dialogue - The Ultimate Writers' Guide"

But I have to say, even some published authors aren't very good at it, and are nevertheless successful. I don't know if you've ever heard of John Scalzi, or not, but I've read (actually listened on Audible) to two novels of his, Old Man's War and its first sequel, and his dialog skills are somewhat forced, or using your term, unnatural, at times. In my opinion. My humble opinion. But that doesn't stop him from producing very interesting science fiction.

The book I cited above has this quote from Barbara Taylor Bradford:

"Generally, a chapter should be a measured balance of narrative and dialogue. If you have too much of one, or the other, your reader will be put off. There is no precise formula for this balance. However, if your scene is dialogue-heavy, you need to make sure that your reader is still able to follow the actions of the characters during the scene. Let the reader know the movements, facial expressions, and physical gestures during the sequence. This way, the reader can still visualize the characters during their long discussions. Similarly, too much narrative can feel overwhelming to your reader. If you go too long with description and scene-setting, your readers will have a tendency to skip ahead to the next scene where the dialogue and action resumes. So be mindful and always try and provide equal measures of both narrative and dialogue." – Barbara Taylor Bradford

My current favorite science fiction author is Lois McMaster Bujold, and she is very good about "Let the reader know the movements, facial expressions, and physical gestures during the sequence." Although sometimes she seems to get a bit mechanical about it.

Scalzi does things like (not a quote):

"I'm almost out of ammunition," said John.
"Here's some more," said Bill.
"Thanks!" said John.
"Don't mention it," said Bill.

Well, maybe not quite that bad. But sometimes his dialogue can get annoying. 

 

Edited March 11, 2025 by Stargazer

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Well, I certainly wouldn't have written it that way!

But you have to understand that the book's "present" comes after a very divergent history from the founding of Deseret as a republic in 1849. It includes a good deal of hostility between the US and Deseret. I don't know if Deseret would be easily blockaded, because in the book it owns the California coast from just south of Los Angeles down to the Mexican border. So, the port of San Diego, in other words. McBeth hasn't said a single thing in regards to the Deseret Navy, so I couldn't comment on blockadability.

I think the reason why he selected Iran as the alliance partner is because it brings Eurasia into the mix more than Mexico would have. As a beta reader I don't know if I am supposed to reveal any spoilers. He didn't tell me not to, and didn't have me agree to an NDA. So maybe I can say that Iran is apparently going to betray Deseret in such a way as to provoke another war between the US and Deseret. Or so it seems from the text I was given to read, and some things that he told me via email. And the sequels will develop those themes further.

Note that there are many current-day people and things being brought forward in the book, with some variant spellings, apparently. The president of Deseret is Mitt Romnet, for example. Note the T instead of the Y! This was in the book's chronology, but it may not survive into the final product, since it is awful close to the real person and the publisher might not like to risk a possible lawsuit. Also, Deseret has purchased a few squadrons of F-35s from the US. There seem to be a lot of other current-day names and terms. 

Ryan actually provided me the full text of the novel recently, so I could go off on spoilers if I felt malign. But I haven't yet read the rest of the book past the bit I read for the beta read.

Got me thinking, too. But not about this story so much as how I started writing a science fiction novel a few years ago, intending to make it into a trilogy, if successful, but I ran out of steam. As I tend to do, with sometimes rampant attention deficit disorder. But this Deseret novel made me think I should go back to my novel and try working it out. Instead of a thriller, it's a first contact novel. I know how to write. Question is, can I really write fiction? I seem to have a good handle on non-fiction, at least. See the link to my latest book in my sig.  

Again, I am not picking on you. I am just going off the information. Modern naval warfare would make it incredibly easy for the United States to interdict all traffic to San Diego. It would be a blockade but not a WWII style one. The entire Deseret navy would be concentrated at San Diego and would be easy prey for US air and naval power. The US would have a bigger navy simply because they would need one. Deseret would not. They would like one but I can’t see them being able to afford one. The US navy would probably be smaller in this timeline due to reduced population and resources and the need for a standing army.

Also there is no way the US would sell F-35s to an adversarial power. They hesitate before providing top line aircraft to trusted allies and usually don’t. There are a few exceptions but those were cases where the US was providing support to a proxy war (Iran getting F-14s for example) but there is no state the US would need Deseret to keep in check.

I’m tempted to theorycraft on how the theocracy of Deseret works but I should stop. The one big change I would see is that the Church would not have grown to the size it has worldwide. Most governments are not going to let in dedicated missionaries from a theocratic state they are adversarial to.