Yahoo / Washington Post: "2024 was the year of Mormon women"

[smac97]

2024 was the year of Mormon women

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Lindsay Hansen Park and her friend have a running joke about how their respective religions are portrayed in popular media. Horror books and film abound with Catholics. As for Mormonism - that’s the true crime genre, Hansen Park says.

That’s not always so funny for Hansen Park, a self-described “Mormon feminist” and historian who has consulted on various TV shows and films depicting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), including the 2022 docudrama starring Andrew Garfield, “Under the Banner of Heaven.”

Of all the Latter-day Saint women who could be cited when beginning an article about Latter-day Saint women, they start with the self-professed-non-believing-Latter-day-Saint (having even publicly affirmed that she "no longer believes the church is true or good") Lindsay Hansen Park, including her stint as a "consultant" for “Under the Banner of Heaven.” 

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The stories Mormon women tell about themselves - to one another and to outsiders - have always been more complicated than that. And, in recent years, Mormon women and their contributions have been more visible in pop culture. LDS aesthetics have dovetailed with broader cultural trends. The modern Mormon woman is more palatable, defined less by her garments (or, more crudely, “magic underwear”) than her big-barrel curls and Stanley tumblers, her dirty soda and “clean girl” makeup. Holiness and prosperity are signaled through shiplap walls, chevron rugs and choreographed dances on social media.

This seems like a pretty shallow, even vacuous, depiction of "Mormon women."

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In one of the year’s buzziest shows, “The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,” a group of LDS women exchanges one sphere of social influence (TikTok) for another (reality TV). Audiences and cultural critics mined the show for meaning: They were the “Apotheosis of 21st-Century Womanhood,” a “Winning Brand” of tradwife, a lesson in irony. 

My daughter recently found herself in the background during the filming of a segment of "Secret Lives" (she was working at a Fall carnival).  She came home and described the experience.  This apparently piqued the curiosity of my 15-year-old son, who the next day reported that he had looked up "Secret Lives" and watched a few clips online.  His response was along the lines of "What in the heck is that?  Mormon women don't behave that way!"  He then went on to catalog the women he knows: my wife, women in our ward, his aunts and grandmothers.  He was both amused and a little annoyed and offended that the "Secret Lives" cast are supposedly "representing" these women.

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Meanwhile, “Heretic,” starring Hugh Grant, played on - and challenged - perceptions of LDS women as naive and easily manipulated.

"Perceptions" held by whom, I wonder.

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At a time when conservative politics, personalities and media are surging in popularity, women “Saints” aren’t just mirroring pop culture; they are, perhaps for the first time, at the forefront of it.

Lindsay Hansen Park, the "Secret Lives" cast, and two fictional sister missionaries are being used here to represent Latter-day Saint women.

What a dumb article.

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And, notes Hansen Park, why wouldn’t they be? The modern LDS has found purchase and purpose in two of the biggest drivers of American culture: “Mormonism pairs really well with social media and capitalism right now.”

Lindsay Hansen Park.  The gift that keeps on giving.

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Americans have been projecting their anxieties about sex and gender roles onto Mormon women since the religion was founded in the 1830s by Joseph Smith, a self-professed prophet who, among other personal revelations, came to believe that God wanted him and his followers to practice polygamy.

Critics compared the practice to chattel slavery. In his first Sherlock Holmes novel, “A Study in Scarlet,” Sir Arthur Conan Doyle depicted Mormons as kidnappers, enslavers and killers. One enterprising New York druggist capitalized on stereotypes about Mormon virility with his “Mormon Elders’ Damiana Wafers” - a remedy for impotence.

This suggestion of sex and scandal remains present in “The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.” The show follows the women of “MomTok,” a Utah-based group of LDS members who gained popularity for their TikTok videos, and notoriety for their “soft swinging” drama. According to Hulu, the series premiere was the most-watched of all its unscripted offerings this year. (The platform also carries “The Kardashians,” “Vanderpump Villa” and “Dance Moms: A New Era.”)

But there’s another reason Mormon women are everywhere, posits Hansen Park. The performance of purity - or Godliness - is a fundamental part of the religion.

“We’re always performing our faith to one another. And, in a sense, that makes us really well suited for social media,” she said. “We have this intense focus on perfectionism.”

According to Hansen Park, Latter-day Saint women, "purity" / "Godliness" is a "performance" akin to creating content for TikTok.

When I read Lindsay Hansen Park (see, e.g., here, here, here, here, here), I glean a lot of anger, even rage, and heaping measures of commentary filtered through a primarily sociopolitical and social media lens.  In my view, she does not accurately or fairly reflect or represent the faith and perspective which put the "Latter-day Saint" in "Latter-day Saint women."  I am saddened by that, as I think Latter-day Saint women deserve much better than to have their faith depicted by someone holding such negative and unpleasant and ugly views about that faith.

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The idyllic photos of families and friends in matching outfits; elaborate “from scratch” meals for one’s husband and children; and color-coordinated rows of shiny metal water tumblers. (Mormon women helped launch the Stanley cup craze and are fueling interest in “dirty sodas”; last year, the Utah-based soda drive-through chain Swig announced that it would be expanding to seven new states.) Luxury items such as a Goyard diaper bag are meant to be displayed, material prosperity being evidence of God’s favor. Taking a peek into a culture widely seen as insular is tantalizing for nonbelievers - all the more if there’s a whiff of offscreen messiness.

The women of LDS may deliver these images with a wink and a nod - consider glam-mom influencer Nara Smith’s over-the-top presentations of homemade Capri-Sun - but these performances are still framed by a traditional set of LDS ideals, Hansen Park said. “A little bit of extra suffering adds a sparkle of righteousness to it.”

"{M}aterial prosperity being evidence of God’s favor."

This is the stuff Lindsay Hansen Park is peddling about Latter-day Saint women.

More:

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The kind of women’s empowerment on “Secret Lives” and “The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City” can seem like another example of glossy, self-interested girl-bossiness masquerading as power. They run their own businesses selling natal supplements and doing hair. They throw splashy divorce parties. They plan girls’ trips that no one seems to enjoy but that look great on Instagram. But there is something radical in what the casts of both shows are doing, Hansen Park, the historian, argued.

“Most of Mormonism, when they say faith, they don’t mean faith. They mean loyalty to the institution,” she said. “Most Mormons don’t care if I believe in God or Joseph Smith. They don’t care about my relationship to Jesus Christ. They care if I am saying nice things about them publicly.”

The new Mormon women we see on TV? “They don’t really give a s— about the integrity of the church, you know?” Hansen Park said.

Instead, they’re presenting a different vision of what Mormon womanhood could look like, one in which the church is more inclusive and less restrictive - and God thinks a little bit more like they do.

Actually, i think Latter-day Saints hope that folks like Hansen Park do have faith.

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Take Jessi Ngatikaura, one of the stars of “Secret Lives,” trying to reassure one of her more devout castmates about their excursion to Chippendales. The castmate, Jen Affleck, is on edge; her husband, whom she has been supporting through med school, is pitching a fit. He doesn’t want to be married to a woman who ogles hunky beefcakes in tiny underpants.

Ngatikaura - who is no longer an LDS member - can’t believe this is even an issue.

“In the eyes of God, you should be fine,” Ngatikaura explained, “because my God is chill.”

This is supposed to be representative of "Mormon women."

Oi.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

[Calm]

5 hours ago, smac97 said:

Actually, i think Latter-day Saints hope that folks like Hansen Park do have faith.

I agree that most do based on how I hear members talk about those who doubt or even walk away from church membership or who live lives not matching church morality standards or who appear to be overly invested in what we often define as “worldly”.  Since I have a limited number of Saints I have heard speak on this and fewer I have personally discussed it with, I am not going to assume all Saints feel this way, but I will be honestly and deeply shocked if it isn’t so for the vast majority of Saints.

We do use “faith” in multiple ways, so it may be confusing at times what we are actually talking about….and loyalty to or respect for the Church, which can be a huge part of our identity, is also important, but hoping for loyalty to the Church does not preclude hoping for them to have even a seed’s worth of actual faith even more…or at least some for those who put loyalty to the Church first…though I would guess for many of those they see a rejection of the Church as a rejection of God because the Church and its members are one of God’s chosen tools to help his children, similar to how if someone disowned their family it would be seen as a rejection of the individuals in that family as well as a rejection of the whole.

I am rather surprised she thinks we don’t generally care if someone believes in God.  I have never heard any member being dismissive of a lack of belief even if accepting that it’s okay right now because in the end everyone will have a chance to come to that knowledge and have a relationship with God.  It in fact really worries the members I have talked to about it as a lack of belief in God is seen as if not actually harmful, it is at the very least preventing nonbelievers from having a very valuable and useful blessing in their lives that members I know what everyone to have, being able to seek out God’s comfort and help in hard times.

In my case, I am not going to make a big deal to their face of someone’s lack of faith because I believe that too can be a path to God and they have to walk their own path and not the one I would choose for them if I could, but that doesn’t stop the tears from coming when I am alone and thinking of how I wish they had the peace that faith in God can bring.

Added:  read the whole article now.  The section with Powell was more interesting to me, the rest felt like more clickbait than actual serious discussion.  It’s like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  Push Mormon identity as more than church membership, but using the connection to the Church and its image to create a reason to care about what the apparently mostly no longer believing women are doing by lumping them in with more traditional female members.

In most cases they are using “Mormon” and “LDS” interchangeably, call MomTok LDS members even though they also say some of the women involved are not members anymore.  In one case they contrast “Mormon” with “LDS” rather strangely given the rest of the article usage.

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Even if they’re not professional content creators, Mormon women are using social media platforms to clarify their experiences and share different interpretations of their faith - something that can inadvertently draw them into conflict with LDS members and their detractors

“Mormon women” in conflict with “LDS members” as if two different things…a differentiation that is neither defined or adhered to in the rest of the article.

Over all, a very poorly written and researched article imo.  Very lazy.  Looks like they made the easy, minimal work choice.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Calm

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I agree that most do based on how I hear members talk about those who doubt or even walk away from church membership or who live lives not matching church morality standards or who appear to be overly invested in what we often define as “worldly”.  Since I have a limited number of Saints I have heard speak on this and fewer I have personally discussed it with, I am not going to assume all Saints feel this way, but I will be honestly and deeply shocked if it isn’t so for the vast majority of Saints.

Same here.  I think the characterizations of shallowness and insincerity Hansen Park attributes to the Saints are unfair and inaccurate.

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

We do use “faith” in multiple ways, so it may be confusing at times what we are actually talking about….and loyalty to or respect for the Church, which can be a huge part of our identity, is also important, but hoping for loyalty to the Church does not preclude hoping for them to have even a seed’s worth of actual faith even more.

Yep.

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am rather surprised she thinks we don’t generally care if someone believes in God.  I have never heard any member being dismissive of a lack of belief even if accepting that it’s okay right now because in the end everyone will have a chance to come to that knowledge and have a relationship with God.

I think she's mostly talking out her ear.  She's looking to say things provocative and sound-bitey.

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

It in fact really worries the members I have talked to about it as a lack of belief in God is seen as if not actually harmful, it is at the very least preventing nonbelievers from having a very valuable and useful blessing in their lives that members I know what everyone to have, being able to seek out God’s comfort and help in hard times.

The "community" and sociality of the Saints is, of course, very important.  But not nearly as important as the foundation on which it is built, the nucleus that binds it together: faith in the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

45 minutes ago, smac97 said:

think she's mostly talking out her ear.  She's looking to say things provocative and sound-bitey.

The throwing in of “They don’t really give a s—“ was such a nice touch.

Whether Park had more insightful comments that were left out or not, it is pretty obvious that the writer wanted quick and dirty click bait masquerading as intelligent examination (‘let’s throw in a study to show we are serious about reporting, what’s looks good on Google?”)

I am not interested enough to check, but I wonder if Park comments on the article at all.  She might be reluctant to be negative if she wants to be a popular source for reporters to appeal to, but she might also want to show she is more informed and thoughtful than she comes across in the article.

Edited December 18, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

While things can change in 12 years, the idea we don’t care if members believe in God or Joseph Smith as a prophet is laughable given the Pew research that addresses that question:

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/01/12/mormons-in-america-executive-summary/

 

[The Nehor]

‘Mormon women are not the stereotype they frequently are defined as.’

’How dare you suggest people believe in this stereotype?!?!’

And yeah, that stereotype is pretty accurate in terms of how Mormon women are viewed. Changing it up is healthy even if some of it is trashy.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

‘Mormon women are not the stereotype they frequently are defined as.’

’How dare you suggest people believe in this stereotype?!?!’

And yeah, that stereotype is pretty accurate in terms of how Mormon women are viewed. Changing it up is healthy even if some of it is trashy.

It seems like mormon women are usually stereotyped as doormats, but most of them are not at all. 

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It seems like mormon women are usually stereotyped as doormats, but most of them are not at all. 

They aren’t. I just think complaining about stereotyping in general is a bad idea. People are going to stereotype. There is usually some truth to some of those stereotypes. Most people know there are exceptions and nuances.

In a semi-jokey article about how stereotypes of Mormons are changing I don’t think it is helpful to say that the stereotype is not comprehensively accurate.

[Benjamin McGuire]

One of the problems with religious groups is that when they get large enough (or old enough) there is a shift in understanding. We don't generally measure a person's Jewishness by their devoutness to their faith. Instead we speak of the devout Jew or the Orthodox Jew, or even the secular Jew. When we can (at least as a society) start discussing The Rise of the Secular Catholic, we can see that this is possible for other religions - and especially religions that have a strong sense of self-identity. These groups aren't simply identified by religiosity - there is some overlap with culture. Unless our purpose is boundary maintenance (which is only relevant within the group - and really only to a part of the group), then we are going to see these ideas used within a larger societal setting as reflecting not so much the religious identity but the cultural identity. For those who are born into Mormonism, even if they eventually leave in some fashion, that culture is still a part of who they are. And I think that they have a legitimate claim to being Mormon, even if they no longer participate in the Church.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

One of the problems with religious groups is that when they get large enough (or old enough) there is a shift in understanding. We don't generally measure a person's Jewishness by their devoutness to their faith. Instead we speak of the devout Jew or the Orthodox Jew, or even the secular Jew. When we can (at least as a society) start discussing The Rise of the Secular Catholic, we can see that this is possible for other religions - and especially religions that have a strong sense of self-identity. These groups aren't simply identified by religiosity - there is some overlap with culture. Unless our purpose is boundary maintenance (which is only relevant within the group - and really only to a part of the group), then we are going to see these ideas used within a larger societal setting as reflecting not so much the religious identity but the cultural identity. For those who are born into Mormonism, even if they eventually leave in some fashion, that culture is still a part of who they are. And I think that they have a legitimate claim to being Mormon, even if they no longer participate in the Church.

The problem for me is when “LDS” and “Mormon” are used interchangeably and then inconsistently as contrasts as in their ‘Mormon women coming in conflict with LDS’.   It creates confusion rather than illuminates the changing dynamic.

I personally see “Mormon” as highly useful for a cultural label now the Church has chosen to lay it aside for many things, reserving Latter-day Saint for members (which makes Saint and LDS useful nicknames imo).  I have used “Mormonism” forever as the cultural community rather than referring to the set of beliefs of the Restored Church.  “Mormon” includes fundamentalists to secular individuals who still feel connection to the culture that attaches to the various groups claiming Joseph Smith as their founder (or ultimate founder if a later split off group) in my view though I understood why the Church was trying to insist on it solely identifying church members because of the confusion with fundamentalists. 

 I think the rejection of “Mormon” as a membership label was a great move so we don’t have to fight that lose-lose battle we were forced to in order to maintain separation in people’s understanding (I don’t believe it was fair/just to say other groups tied to Joseph Smith couldn’t also use the label Mormon if they wanted to, I don’t believe Latter-day Saints should have to just take being confused with apostate groups).  I realize the some use LDS as well, but the number is smaller and most I have seen use FLDS in articles or conversations call them fundamentalists rather than LDS.  The others who might use LDS as an abbreviation of their name with good reason I very rarely see referred to.

Edited December 20, 2024 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/18/2024 at 9:11 AM, smac97 said:

2024 was the year of Mormon women

Of all the Latter-day Saint women who could be cited when beginning an article about Latter-day Saint women, they start with the self-professed-non-believing-Latter-day-Saint (having even publicly affirmed that she "no longer believes the church is true or good") Lindsay Hansen Park, including her stint as a "consultant" for “Under the Banner of Heaven.” 

This seems like a pretty shallow, even vacuous, depiction of "Mormon women."

My daughter recently found herself in the background during the filming of a segment of "Secret Lives" (she was working at a Fall carnival).  She came home and described the experience.  This apparently piqued the curiosity of my 15-year-old son, who the next day reported that he had looked up "Secret Lives" and watched a few clips online.  His response was along the lines of "What in the heck is that?  Mormon women don't behave that way!"  He then went on to catalog the women he knows: my wife, women in our ward, his aunts and grandmothers.  He was both amused and a little annoyed and offended that the "Secret Lives" cast are supposedly "representing" these women.

True enough.  My own mother was a country girl from Fairview, and a lifelong Democrat.  She taught school until marriage, then raised five happy children while being PTA Pres, and Pres of the local Daughters of the Utah Pioneers, and (after the children were grown) went back to a career in teaching until age 70 -- and spending a lot of time at the L.A. Temple.  She lived her life with gusto and a constant smile.

On 12/18/2024 at 9:11 AM, smac97 said:

......................

Lindsay Hansen Park, the "Secret Lives" cast, and two fictional sister missionaries are being used here to represent Latter-day Saint women.

.............................

According to Hansen Park, Latter-day Saint women, "purity" / "Godliness" is a "performance" akin to creating content for TikTok.

When I read Lindsay Hansen Park (see, e.g., here, here, here, here, here), I glean a lot of anger, even rage, and heaping measures of commentary filtered through a primarily sociopolitical and social media lens.  In my view, she does not accurately or fairly reflect or represent the faith and perspective which put the "Latter-day Saint" in "Latter-day Saint women."  I am saddened by that, as I think Latter-day Saint women deserve much better than to have their faith depicted by someone holding such negative and unpleasant and ugly views about that faith.

"{M}aterial prosperity being evidence of God’s favor."

This is the stuff Lindsay Hansen Park is peddling about Latter-day Saint women.

..............................

This is supposed to be representative of "Mormon women."

Oi..................

Hansen Park is more uncomfortable than a typical Jack Mormon.  She is certainly crude and rude, and seems to have sold her soul to be part of mainstream America.  If she were a secular, self-hating Jew, we would get the same distortions about the ultra-orthodox Jewish community, the same anger about the success of that community.  Moreover, such traditional communities are actually growing, while secularists rarely have children.  Demography is destiny.

Surveys conducted over the last half-century show that traditional believers are happier and more successful than ardent secularists and wastrels.  Married couples are happier than singles.

[The Nehor]

42 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Hansen Park is more uncomfortable than a typical Jack Mormon.  She is certainly crude and rude, and seems to have sold her soul to be part of mainstream America.  If she were a secular, self-hating Jew, we would get the same distortions about the ultra-orthodox Jewish community, the same anger about the success of that community. 

Success? Haredi communities have high rates of poverty and have more working women than men because the men consider it their job to study instead. That is success to you?

42 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Moreover, such traditional communities are actually growing, while secularists rarely have children.  Demography is destiny.

The saying is that “demographics aren’t destiny”.

42 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Surveys conducted over the last half-century show that traditional believers are happier and more successful than ardent secularists and wastrels.  Married couples are happier than singles.

What about non-ardent secularists that are only a little wastrelly?

[Dario_M]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

‘Mormon women are not the stereotype they frequently are defined as.’

’How dare you suggest people believe in this stereotype?!?!’

And yeah, that stereotype is pretty accurate in terms of how Mormon women are viewed. Changing it up is healthy even if some of it is trashy.

This just shows how demanding the LDS community is against woman in generaly. Even more then men. 

[Benjamin McGuire]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

I personally see “Mormon” as highly useful for a cultural label now the Church has chosen to lay it aside for many things, reserving Latter-day Saint for members (which makes Saint and LDS useful nicknames imo).  I have used “Mormonism” forever as the cultural community rather than referring to the set of beliefs of the Restored Church.

Yeah, but this kind of reinforces my point. This is an internal distinction that is lost on wider society, and not necessarily accepted by the wide range of 'Mormons' that consider themselves a part of the Mormon community and falling under that Mormon label.  The best efforts of the LDS Church aren't really going to change this much.

[Robert F. Smith]

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Success? Haredi communities have high rates of poverty and have more working women than men because the men consider it their job to study instead. That is success to you?

They consider it a success, and poverty is relative to the measure applied.  Those Yeshiva boys consider that, but for them, God would bring an end right away.  Only their constant study preserves humanity.

 

[The Nehor]

18 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

They consider it a success, and poverty is relative to the measure applied.  Those Yeshiva boys consider that, but for them, God would bring an end right away.  Only their constant study preserves humanity.

While being the only known pure example of those “welfare queens” Reagan went on about. Turns out they were mostly in Israel all along.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/20/2024 at 2:21 PM, The Nehor said:

While being the only known pure example of those “welfare queens” Reagan went on about. Turns out they were mostly in Israel all along.

Yes, and regular Israelis (both orthodox and secular) are very unhappy with the Yeshiva boys getting out of serving in the IDF.  However, they have powerful influence in the Right-wing govt now in power.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yes, and regular Israelis (both orthodox and secular) are very unhappy with the Yeshiva boys getting out of serving in the IDF.  However, they have powerful influence in the Right-wing govt now in power.

They have some but the ultra-orthodox are not all far-right. Many are not Zionists and some are opposed to Zionism including those within Israel. It is not a “get together and sing kumbaya” alliance.

[Robert F. Smith]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

They have some but the ultra-orthodox are not all far-right. Many are not Zionists and some are opposed to Zionism including those within Israel. It is not a “get together and sing kumbaya” alliance.

Politics makes strange bedfellows, and Bibi depends on it.