A Theory on the Satanic Hatred Towards Women

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/20/2024 at 2:31 PM, Calm said:

I don’t know much about other countries, but while S Korea may have good health care coverage, they are not family friendly in other ways.  It can be difficult for mothers to resume interrupted careers while it being a necessity due to high costs of rent and education for their children.

https://gjia.georgetown.edu/2024/09/24/the-necessary-paradigm-shift-for-south-koreas-ultra-low-fertility/#:~:text=A combination of institutional%2C structural,and gender-essentialist family organization.

https://www.kedglobal.com/economy/newsView/ked202403150009

252.1 million won is currently 174,420.30 US dollars.

Yes, indeed, S. Korea is a basket case, and is facing a greater demographic disaster than any other country, including China.  They may not make it out of their tailspin.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/20/2024 at 5:26 PM, The Nehor said:

Thread started about Satan’s views on women and somehow got hijacked into Marxism because all evil is Marxism. I just wonder if it is because if this happened because they think Satan is evil or they think women are evil?

Edit: Or could be both.

Both Satan and Karl Marx had such high aspirations, both forcing everyone to be saved from themselves.  Was that Plan B?

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Both Satan and Karl Marx had such high aspirations, both forcing everyone to be saved from themselves.  Was that Plan B?

I suspect that wasn’t Satan’s plan and I am pretty certain it wasn’t Marx’s plan either.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

that wasn’t Satan’s plan

I definitely lean (as in fall over on my face type of leaning) towards Satan’s way to ensure everyone passed Go was to remove the law, not enforce it or somehow compel all to act a certain sinless way.  No law, no sin makes much more sense and would be relatively easy for Satan to set up, I am guessing.  Would totally destroy our ability to have joy and progress, but Satan wasn’t exactly thinking of what it meant for others when he was going for the glory.

I just don’t see the enforced lockstep, cookie cutter, no choice existence in the least appealing to the type of spirit that appears to have followed Satan and I don’t see it as his main or even common tool nowadays while convincing people there is no law they need to abide by as in ‘eat, drink, and be merry’ or ‘sin a little, God will beat you with a few stripes and then off you will go to heaven’ is his main gimmick.

Edited December 22, 2024 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I suspect that wasn’t Satan’s plan and I am pretty certain it wasn’t Marx’s plan either.

When I first studied the writings of Marx back in the mid-60s, I learned that the young Marx was a much nicer guy.  But the later Marx is not so nice and not just misunderstood.  As for Satan, there must always be a bad guy, if only for liturgical dramatic purposes.  Think 2 Nephi 2.

[The Nehor]

On 12/22/2024 at 6:03 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

When I first studied the writings of Marx back in the mid-60s, I learned that the young Marx was a much nicer guy.  But the later Marx is not so nice and not just misunderstood.  As for Satan, there must always be a bad guy, if only for liturgical dramatic purposes.  Think 2 Nephi 2.

Judaism did just fine without a fallen bad guy satan figure. In many ancient religions the deities are order fighting chaos more than good fighting evil.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

many ancient religions the deities are order fighting chaos

That is the original setup in the Bible.  The leviathan is not evil, but chaotic.  God creates good, not out of evil or neutral, but out of chaos…his creation is giving order to the chaos, to purposelessness.

Edited December 25, 2024 by Calm

[The Nehor]

42 minutes ago, Calm said:

That is the original setup in the Bible.  The leviathan is not evil, but chaotic.  God creates good, not out of evil or neutral, but out of chaos…his creation is giving order to the chaos, to purposelessness.

Yeah, the introduction of a satan figure didn’t really appear until Judaism ran into Zoroastrianism and it didn’t catch on as a major theme until Christianity showed up and latched on in a major way. It also probably accelerated due to the shift from a prophetic model of communication with yahweh (prophets are told things by Yahweh and tell everyone and usually also annoy everyone) to a more apocalyptic model where the prophet is shown things (prophets see things on a journey usually involving angelic guided tours that often involve a trip and descent to the throne of God and then write an apocalypse to explain what they saw). The apocalyptic strain of Judaism and the rabbinic strain did not get along very well. The rabbinic group was mostly focused on making sure Judaism would survive whereas the apocalyptic strain was obsessed with messiahs and battles for independence and victory which had the downside of getting a lot of people killed which was kind of counter to the whole survival thing.

Edited December 25, 2024 by The Nehor

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 Nephi 28:22

"And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them:

"I am no devil, for there is none"

—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance."

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

2 Nephi 28:22

"And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them:

"I am no devil, for there is none"

—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance."

He seems to have had most of the writers of the Hebrew Bible fooled so gotta give the devil credit for that strategy.

Edit: He presumably also somehow convinced them that there was no hell or heaven. Only Sheol. So the devil was going two for two at the time.

Edited December 25, 2024 by The Nehor

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/25/2024 at 12:47 PM, The Nehor said:

Judaism did just fine without a fallen bad guy satan figure.

Quite the contrary, as I show in my piece at https://1drv.ms/b/s!Aj5g2S0y64JGjg19dNnd3PAyN7e0?e=aJqsQW .

On 12/25/2024 at 12:47 PM, The Nehor said:

In many ancient religions the deities are order fighting chaos more than good fighting evil.

Yes, and in ancient Egypt this was a matter of state ideology as much as of religion.  It was the job of Pharaoh to bring order and fight chaos.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Quite the contrary, as I show in my piece at https://1drv.ms/b/s!Aj5g2S0y64JGjg19dNnd3PAyN7e0?e=aJqsQW .

I am not convinced. I said Judaism didn’t have some kind of equivalent Satan figure. Your linked bit there is arguing that the Isaiah “Lucifer” bit is about a fallen angel and then cites a bunch of Christians saying that is what it means. To score this point you would need a lot of Jewish people in that time period agreeing with them.

[Robert F. Smith]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am not convinced. I said Judaism didn’t have some kind of equivalent Satan figure. Your linked bit there is arguing that the Isaiah “Lucifer” bit is about a fallen angel and then cites a bunch of Christians saying that is what it means. To score this point you would need a lot of Jewish people in that time period agreeing with them.

The Israelites were Canaanites who spoke Canaanite (Hebrew is Canaanite, and the Hebrew Bible never refers to "Hebrew" language).  Isaiah's poetry uses a famous Canaanite poem, and your KJV Lucifer is a mistranslation drawn from Latin.  Israelite cult is tightly connected to Canaanite cult, and Isaiah's poetry is meaningless without that proper context.

It is true that the Israelite elite were demythologizing their religion, attempting to remove any embarrassing Canaanite references, but they failed to extirpate all of it.  And we are left with a great deal of Canaanite mythology in the Bible being attributed to Yahweh/Jehovah, and we know from archeology that nearly every Israelite house had Asherah figurines -- in addition to Israelite inscriptions which claim Asherah as Yahweh's wife (something which we can find lurking in the BofM)..

Finally, Judaism was shot through with Satan, as is particularly evident in Job, intertestamental literature, including the Dead Sea Scrolls.  Satan is in ho way a new figure to nascent Christians.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The Israelites were Canaanites who spoke Canaanite (Hebrew is Canaanite, and the Hebrew Bible never refers to "Hebrew" language).  Isaiah's poetry uses a famous Canaanite poem, and your KJV Lucifer is a mistranslation drawn from Latin.  Israelite cult is tightly connected to Canaanite cult, and Isaiah's poetry is meaningless without that proper context.

It is true that the Israelite elite were demythologizing their religion, attempting to remove any embarrassing Canaanite references, but they failed to extirpate all of it.  And we are left with a great deal of Canaanite mythology in the Bible being attributed to Yahweh/Jehovah, and we know from archeology that nearly every Israelite house had Asherah figurines -- in addition to Israelite inscriptions which claim Asherah as Yahweh's wife (something which we can find lurking in the BofM)..

Finally, Judaism was shot through with Satan, as is particularly evident in Job, intertestamental literature, including the Dead Sea Scrolls.  Satan is in ho way a new figure to nascent Christians.

I think you know the Satan in Job is nothing like the Satan in Christianity and not what I mean by an equivalent figure. The Satan in Job is God’s servant. The stirrings of an adversarial Satan like figure came from Zoroastrianism but it never caught on in Judaism in any major way. Christianity ate it up.

Asherah is not Satan. I am not suggesting that Judaism didn’t go from polytheism to monolatry to monotheism with the idea of a more cosmic God. That is well established.

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Asherah is not Satan.

Where did he imply that she was?

[Robert F. Smith]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think you know the Satan in Job is nothing like the Satan in Christianity and not what I mean by an equivalent figure. The Satan in Job is God’s servant. The stirrings of an adversarial Satan like figure came from Zoroastrianism but it never caught on in Judaism in any major way. Christianity ate it up.

The serpent in the Garden is God's servant every bit as much as Satan the Adversary in Job.  And in both cases, they are dramatic rituals, not historical narratives.  You ignore the Dead Sea Scrolls and intertestamental lit.  Christianity was a Jewish sect, inheriting a very long tradition going back into Canaanite times.  Standard scholarship ignores major aspects of that, so it is no surprise that you do as well.  The false doctrine of progress (historical evolution) is the primary culprit.

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Asherah is not Satan. I am not suggesting that Judaism didn’t go from polytheism to monolatry to monotheism with the idea of a more cosmic God. That is well established.

You missed the point that Asherah is Canaanite and Israelite, a context you ignore or are totally unaware of.  Where did I say that Asherah is Satan?  At least you seem aware of the shift from henotheism to monotheism in Judaism.  Perhaps you even know about the Divine Council, Leviathan, etc.  What you seem not to know at all is that Israelite cult is already part of Canaanite cult at Ugarit in the 2nd millennium BC -- including Tabernacles and Day of Atonement.

[Tacenda]

On 12/17/2024 at 6:43 AM, ZealouslyStriving said:

You hold the Bible accountable for how women are treated in Islam, Hinduism, etc... ?

The same Bible that teaches that husband are to love be their wives as Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it?

I was terrible at reading the scriptures and would feel very guilty for not liking to. Now I give myself a little break, especially after reading this article about Pres Carter. I hold him in high esteem, can't beat the humanitarian service he's given. 

https://www.cartercenter.org/news/editorials_speeches/jc-TEDWomen-may-2015.html

Edited December 29, 2024 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

On 12/27/2024 at 1:50 AM, ZealouslyStriving said:

Where did he imply that she was?

By what was being quoted when Asherah was brought up.

[The Nehor]

On 12/27/2024 at 2:01 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

The serpent in the Garden is God's servant every bit as much as Satan the Adversary in Job.  And in both cases, they are dramatic rituals, not historical narratives.  You ignore the Dead Sea Scrolls and intertestamental lit.  Christianity was a Jewish sect, inheriting a very long tradition going back into Canaanite times.  Standard scholarship ignores major aspects of that, so it is no surprise that you do as well.  The false doctrine of progress (historical evolution) is the primary culprit.

Christianity is a break off of Judaism?

STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, that is sarcasm.

On 12/27/2024 at 2:01 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

You missed the point that Asherah is Canaanite and Israelite, a context you ignore or are totally unaware of.  Where did I say that Asherah is Satan?  At least you seem aware of the shift from henotheism to monotheism in Judaism.  Perhaps you even know about the Divine Council, Leviathan, etc.  What you seem not to know at all is that Israelite cult is already part of Canaanite cult at Ugarit in the 2nd millennium BC -- including Tabernacles and Day of Atonement.

I said that Judaism doesn’t have an equivalent adversarial figure like Satan and you started talking about Asherah for some reason.

I literally mentioned Leviathan in this very thread.

Why is it relevant that I know that Israelite and Canaanite religion are related? You have run off on some weird tangent.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/29/2024 at 12:21 AM, The Nehor said:

............................

I said that Judaism doesn’t have an equivalent adversarial figure like Satan and you started talking about Asherah for some reason.

I literally mentioned Leviathan in this very thread.

Why is it relevant that I know that Israelite and Canaanite religion are related? You have run off on some weird tangent.

What little you said had all the earmarks of historical evolutionary theory, which is bunk.  A lot of devolution takes place.  You remind me very much of Jews who insist that Judaism has no precursors, which requires that any mythological base for Isaiah 14 be carefully ignored, etc.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

What little you said had all the earmarks of historical evolutionary theory, which is bunk.  A lot of devolution takes place.  You remind me very much of Jews who insist that Judaism has no precursors, which requires that any mythological base for Isaiah 14 be carefully ignored, etc.

You’re trying to talk down to me about what you imagine I believe while saying that historical devolution is a thing?

LOL

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/31/2024 at 1:59 AM, The Nehor said:

You’re trying to talk down to me about what you imagine I believe while saying that historical devolution is a thing?

LOL

When you thought that my mention of Asherah in a mythological context indicated I was asserting that she was Satan, I realized that you were not tracking the actual discussion.  This is merely another indicator.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

When you thought that my mention of Asherah in a mythological context indicated I was asserting that she was Satan, I realized that you were not tracking the actual discussion.  This is merely another indicator.

We’re not discussing. You are lecturing some strawman of me that exists only in your mind. I wish you luck in defeating your foe.