Federal lawsuit against religious schools, including byu - Update 2

[JustAnAustralian]

Following on from 

 

A lot of back and forth happened, but it ended up in the 9th Circuit Court of appeals. The hearing was held last month.

Video of the proceedings available

Court listener link for appeal https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67068467/elizabeth-hunter-v-usedu/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

 

Edited August 7, 2024 by JustAnAustralian

[Dario_M]

A lawsuite against BYU? That's quite strange. I'm curious what that's all about. 

Edited August 7, 2024 by Dario_M

[Kenngo1969]

I wouldn't know ... I'm not, and will never be, an appellate attorney, but do you know you're in for a rough day when, 30 seconds into your argument ("May it please the Court ..." and a couple of other sentences) the questioning begins?    

Just asking!   

[JustAnAustralian]

4 hours ago, Dario_M said:

A lawsuite against BYU? That's quite strange. I'm curious what that's all about. 

Strictly speaking it's not against BYU and the schools themselves, it's against the department of education.

Multiple schools have title9 exemptions and Hunter et Al, are suing to disallow exemptions.

[smac97]

Some further background:

Quote

Friday, Jan 13, 2023

The following quote may be attributed to Alliance Defending Freedom Senior Counsel and Vice President of U.S. Litigation David Cortman regarding a federal court’s decision Thursday to dismiss Hunter v. U.S. Department of Education and continue to allow students to direct federal tuition assistance to educational institutions that share their religious beliefs. The lawsuit was filed by an activist group and was intended to prevent any students from using tuition grants, student loans, and any other federal financial assistance at schools that operate according to religious beliefs on gender or sexual morality:

“A federal district court today rightly rejected an unfounded assault on the religious freedom of faith-based educational institutions. Title IX, which applies to schools receiving federal financial assistance, explicitly protects the freedom of religious schools to live out their deeply and sincerely held convictions. A group of activists asked the court to strip that protection away from schools that educate the next generation and advance the common good. The court correctly concluded that Title IX’s religious liberty exemption doesn’t violate any of the plaintiffs’ claimed rights.”

In October 2021, the U.S. District Court for the District of Oregon allowed three Christian post-secondary schools represented by ADF attorneys—Corban University, William Jessup University, and Phoenix Seminary—to intervene in the lawsuit and defend the relevant provisions of Title IX, the federal law under attack. Among other things, Title IX allows students to use federal financial aid at private religious schools that operate according to their beliefs.

Alliance Defending Freedom is an alliance-building, non-profit legal organization committed to protecting religious freedom, free speech, parental rights, and the sanctity of life.

 

 

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

19 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Following on from 

 

A lot of back and forth happened, but it ended up in the 9th Circuit Court of appeals. The hearing was held last month.

Video of the proceedings available

Court listener link for appeal https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67068467/elizabeth-hunter-v-usedu/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

Oi.  I have gone before the Utah Court of Appeals five or so times.  It's a nerve-wracking experience.  Note, for example, that in the video most of the attorneys come to the lectern with a giant binder of filings, notes, etc., but then only make little use of it.  It's hard to prepare for oral argument when you don't really know what angle the judges are going to take.

The plaintiff's attorney's failure to provide supplemental briefing on "history and tradition" analysis, despite having stated they would do so, looks to be a pretty massive procedural error.

Also, she is not really answering questions being posed to her, at least not directly.  This is another big error.  Appellate court judges are not asking pointed questions to hear the sound of their own voices, but to get to the heart of the legal issues at hand.  Evasive, oblique answers only injure her position.

She is also flip-flopping a lot, such as on the issue of "animus" against LGBTQ people relative to Title IX (that Congress intentionally discriminated against LGBTQ people when it passed Title IX).  She really stepped in it there.

Thanks,

-Smac  

Edited August 8, 2024 by smac97

[Dario_M]

5 hours ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Strictly speaking it's not against BYU and the schools themselves, it's against the department of education.

Multiple schools have title9 exemptions and Hunter et Al, are suing to disallow exemptions.

Well... forgive me.. but i don't understand it anymore now. 

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Well... forgive me.. but i don't understand it anymore now. 

Title IX is a landmark federal civil rights law in the United States that was enacted as part (Title IX) of the Education Amendments of 1972. It prohibits sex-based discrimination in any school or any other education program that receives funding from the federal government. The plaintiffs in this case are suing the Department of Education because they feel that allowing religious exemptions to certain provisions in Title IX of Federal Law is unlawful. They are suing to stop the DofE from granting religious exemptions.

For example, a Christian-based school such as Brigham Young University or Notre Dame might be violating Title IX if they did not allow male and female students to live in the same dorm rooms, unless they were married to each other. This is because doing so could be construed as a form of discrimination against female students. For this reason, the schools would apply to the Department of Education for an exception allowing them to house male and female students separately.

The suit in the case involves what is perceived as discrimination with respect to LGBTQ students, and the plaintiffs feel that allowing exemptions to certain provisions of Title IX for religious reasons should not be allowed. One of their arguments in this case seems to be that it violates the separation of church and state.

Ultimately, if they win, this would mean that schools with religious compunctions would either have to close their doors, operate in violation of their own religious principles, or give up all federal funding. Giving up federal funding would mean that attending students would have to give up any personal federal funding they received (e.g. GI Bill, Pell Grants, Federally-guaranteed student loans, and so on). 

[Dario_M]

53 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Title IX is a landmark federal civil rights law in the United States that was enacted as part (Title IX) of the Education Amendments of 1972. It prohibits sex-based discrimination in any school or any other education program that receives funding from the federal government. The plaintiffs in this case are suing the Department of Education because they feel that allowing religious exemptions to certain provisions in Title IX of Federal Law is unlawful. They are suing to stop the DofE from granting religious exemptions.

For example, a Christian-based school such as Brigham Young University or Notre Dame might be violating Title IX if they did not allow male and female students to live in the same dorm rooms, unless they were married to each other. This is because doing so could be construed as a form of discrimination against female students. For this reason, the schools would apply to the Department of Education for an exception allowing them to house male and female students separately.

The suit in the case involves what is perceived as discrimination with respect to LGBTQ students, and the plaintiffs feel that allowing exemptions to certain provisions of Title IX for religious reasons should not be allowed. One of their arguments in this case seems to be that it violates the separation of church and state.

Ultimately, if they win, this would mean that schools with religious compunctions would either have to close their doors, operate in violation of their own religious principles, or give up all federal funding. Giving up federal funding would mean that attending students would have to give up any personal federal funding they received (e.g. GI Bill, Pell Grants, Federally-guaranteed student loans, and so on). 

Thank you now i understand. 

[Dario_M]

In the church i also notice that in the second hour after the church service is done the mans and womans always get separated with the teaching hour. 

Edited August 8, 2024 by Dario_M

[Stargazer]

11 hours ago, Dario_M said:

In the church i also notice that in the second hour after the church service is done the mans and womans always get separated with the teaching hour. 

No, actually. Only on 2 Sundays per month. On the other Sundays they are combined.

[gmormon]

15 hours ago, Stargazer said:

No, actually. Only on 2 Sundays per month. On the other Sundays they are combined.

Personally I wish we would go back to the 3 hr block. I miss having Priesthood and Sunday School every week and even then there wasn't enough time to teach the lesson. I also miss the old Sunday School Sacrament meeting, there was actually attempts made to teach the congregation how to sing the Hymns

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, gmormon said:

Personally I wish we would go back to the 3 hr block. I miss having Priesthood and Sunday School every week and even then there wasn't enough time to teach the lesson. I also miss the old Sunday School Sacrament meeting, there was actually attempts made to teach the congregation how to sing the Hymns

One of my favorite parts of Sunday worship, if not my favorite after the Sacrament, is the singing. I deeply wish we made time for polishing our singing skills so we could be more expressive in it. 

Edited August 9, 2024 by Calm

[Stargazer]

54 minutes ago, gmormon said:

Personally I wish we would go back to the 3 hr block. I miss having Priesthood and Sunday School every week and even then there wasn't enough time to teach the lesson. I also miss the old Sunday School Sacrament meeting, there was actually attempts made to teach the congregation how to sing the Hymns

I hear you. 

[Dario_M]

19 hours ago, Stargazer said:

No, actually. Only on 2 Sundays per month. On the other Sundays they are combined.

In Portugal was also indeed one or 2 sundays per month. You're right. Oh dear... so manny things have happend in that time that i have forgotten it. 

But here in the Netherlands it is every sunday. 

Edited August 9, 2024 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

Edit. I'm still sleeping i guess.

Edited August 9, 2024 by Dario_M