No Big Bang?

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, Nofear said:

The Enlightenment did have a few not-so-enlightened perspectives. Though to be fair, much of religion at the time was dogmatic and violent. Galileo is sometimes presented as anti-religious, but he wasn't really (heck, his illegitimate daughter he sent to become a nun). The Catholics had created this fairly nice and coherent merger of Aristotelian physics and Christianity. Problem was the science was crappy and as a result, the resultant theology was likewise diluted with error. What Galileo tried to do was separate bad science from the theology. It's a problem we still wrestle with today.

Galileo only got in trouble because he was insulting people in power. The people he got in trouble with were not upset about his ideas. When he caricatured the pope as a drooling moron in one of his books he got in trouble.

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, Nofear said:

The Enlightenment did have a few not-so-enlightened perspectives. Though to be fair, much of religion at the time was dogmatic and violent. Galileo is sometimes presented as anti-religious, but he wasn't really (heck, his illegitimate daughter he sent to become a nun). The Catholics had created this fairly nice and coherent merger of Aristotelian physics and Christianity. Problem was the science was crappy and as a result, the resultant theology was likewise diluted with error. What Galileo tried to do was separate bad science from the theology. It's a problem we still wrestle with today.

And there's a lot of caricature and urban myth that grew up around the Galileo/Catholic Church issue that distorts what really happened.

[Nofear]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Galileo only got in trouble because he was insulting people in power. The people he got in trouble with were not upset about his ideas. When he caricatured the pope as a drooling moron in one of his books he got in trouble.

There was a fair bit of theological push back to Galileo's scientific ideas but putting the words of Simplicius into the mouth of his old friend Cardinal Bellarmine -> Pope Urban VIII wasn't the most politically savvy move certainly. It was the straw big friggin' board that broke the camel's back. The Pope had his hands full with enough of the Protestant stuff and the last thing he needed was some popular smart guy making the Pope look like a fool.

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, Nofear said:

There was a fair bit of theological push back to Galileo's scientific ideas but putting the words of Simplicius into the mouth of his old friend Cardinal Bellarmine -> Pope Urban VIII wasn't the most politically savvy move certainly. It was the straw big friggin' board that broke the camel's back. The Pope had his hands full with enough of the Protestant stuff and the last thing he needed was some popular smart guy making the Pope look like a fool.

The only real pushback was the church saying he should present his ideas as a hypothetical model instead of as truth. They weren’t even saying he was wrong. They were saying there wasn’t enough evidence for it and to be fair there really wasn’t.

Also as you said Christianity fracturing didn’t put church officials in a good mood about people pushing back.

[Nofear]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The only real pushback was the church saying he should present his ideas as a hypothetical model instead of as truth. They weren’t even saying he was wrong. They were saying there wasn’t enough evidence for it and to be fair there really wasn’t.

Also as you said Christianity fracturing didn’t put church officials in a good mood about people pushing back.

Perhaps not overt persecution (at least until the inquisition got started). But it's not as if everybody just took everything he said at face value. There was some push back by the academic powers. There is the legend of academics not even wanting to look through the telescope. Very likely exaggerated. We know of a few instances where some cursory attention to the telescope was given. Also some disagreement with Galileo's proposed physical explanations (or lack of one), etc. We both agree that just because Galileo said he was a Copernican, that he was met with pitchforks and torches at every turn. That certainly wasn't the case.

[Stargazer]

On 3/20/2024 at 2:58 PM, mfbukowski said:

No way Joseph could have pulled that out of a hat, literally, by himself.

The same applies to Moses 1.