Acts 6 - Presidency of the 70?

[nuclearfuels]

Was this the Apostles calling a Presidency of the 70, similar to Moses' calling a Quorum of 70 in Numbers 11 and Exodus 24?

5 ¶ And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they ^achose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the ^bHoly Ghost, and ^cPhilip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they ^alaid their ^bhands on them.

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the ^apriests were obedient to the faith.

8 And Stephen, full of faith and ^apower, did great wonders and ^bmiracles among the people.

[Pyreaux]

Yes, the 70 Elders of Israel were judges, the earthly counterpart of the heavenly court of the 70 Sons of God, who make judgements and decrees for the prophets to relay. So, Moses' Elders of Israel, the Jewish Sanhedrin and Christ's Seventy are modeling their function and number according to a heavenly pattern. As above, so below.

[blackstrap]

It just struck me that if there is a heavenly court with judgments , what is being judged ? It suggests that there are disagreements and arguments to be made on cases. 

Does that mean that there is right and wrong abiding in heaven? My naive self always assumed everything would be peace and love there. Of course there is that whole "war in heaven " stuff. I guess I am slow on the uptake ! 

[Pyreaux]

11 hours ago, blackstrap said:

It just struck me that if there is a heavenly court with judgments , what is being judged ? It suggests that there are disagreements and arguments to be made on cases. 

Does that mean that there is right and wrong abiding in heaven? My naive self always assumed everything would be peace and love there. Of course there is that whole "war in heaven " stuff. I guess I am slow on the uptake ! 

Yhwh keeps seeking their approval during creation, in Genesis 11 they are the "us" who punish Babel, in Daniel 4 they are the "watchers" who sent the Nebuchadnezzar dreams and a decree to Daniel of Nebuchadnezzar's seven-year punishment

Job 1 portrays them to be devising tests for humanity, rivels set against Yhwh and his servant Job for no reason other than by doubt over human loyalty to a God when blessings stop, it was the fire of these very elohim that destroyed Job's house once they had Yhwh's permission.

The Psalmist of Psalm 82 is calling upon El Elyon to punish the elohim, and for Yhwh to inherit all the other nations.

Members rebel and get cast out, Isaiah 14's Helel, the Morning Star and Ezekial 28's (Celestial) Prince of Tyre are apparently two such members. Sometimes for a nation to attack Israel means a member rebels against Yhwh, causing heavenly war, as Yhwh fought the (Celestial) Prince of Persia. There are also times they attack Israel with permission or orders to do so from Yhwh.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Pyreaux

[CV75]

9 hours ago, blackstrap said:

It just struck me that if there is a heavenly court with judgments , what is being judged ? It suggests that there are disagreements and arguments to be made on cases. 

Does that mean that there is right and wrong abiding in heaven? My naive self always assumed everything would be peace and love there. Of course there is that whole "war in heaven " stuff. I guess I am slow on the uptake ! 

The word translated as "judge" also means "rule/ruler," so a presidency operating in a council format would discuss matters whether in heaven or on earth. I would think a presidency or council of exalted resurrected persons in the Church of the Firstborn would handle different issues and discuss them differently, and perhaps more congenially, than the spirit members of the Premortal Grand Council.

[telnetd]

13 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Was this the Apostles calling a Presidency of the 70, similar to Moses' calling a Quorum of 70 in Numbers 11 and Exodus 24?

No. 

Luke 10 is the only place where Jesus specifically sends 70 (or 72) disciples to prepare the way before 
Him.  Healings and the casting out of devils are the signs which occurred in their ministry.

The number 70 or 72 comes from differences found in some ancient scrolls used in translation. These
70 (or 72) were never commissioned in the Book of Mormon.

[Pyreaux]

7 hours ago, telnetd said:

No. 

Luke 10 is the only place where Jesus specifically sends 70 (or 72) disciples to prepare the way before 
Him.  Healings and the casting out of devils are the signs which occurred in their ministry.

The number 70 or 72 comes from differences found in some ancient scrolls used in translation. These
70 (or 72) were never commissioned in the Book of Mormon.

One could at least concede Christ was using Moses' '12/70 (or 72) Principle: 12 Princes 12 Apostles 70 Elders 70 Disciples. The symbolism of such numbers is not accidental. Moses anointed 70 elders for service. We read, “So Moses went out and told the people what the LORD had said. Gathering seventy elders of the people, he had them stand around the tent. The LORD then came down in the cloud and spoke to him. Taking some of the spirit that was on Moses, he bestowed it on the seventy elders; and as the spirit came to rest on them, they prophesied.” (Numbers 11:24-25.). The spirit gave them spiritual gifts, like prophesy, perhaps they had other gifts like Christ's gifts.

However, there were two extra Elders left at the camp not with them: “two men, one named Eldad and the other Medad, were not in the gathering but had been left in the camp. They too had been on the list, but had not gone out to the tent; yet the spirit came to rest on them also, and they prophesied in the camp.” (Numbers 11:26.) Thus, the number of elders who are anointed by the LORD to assist Moses in his work among the people of Israel is actually 72. It is not then clearly significant that Jesus, in choosing 72, is making a connection with Moses, demonstrating what He is doing is in continuity?

The Sanhedrin Council had 71 and there were other lower councils which were composed of 73 members. Yet both these groups though not exactly 70 or 72, they professed to be modeling themselves after the 70 in Numbers 11:16; “Gather to me seventy men of the elders of the Israel." They are at least no less than 70, one extra maybe a tie breaker vote.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Pyreaux

[telnetd]

On 7/14/2023 at 3:27 PM, Pyreaux said:

One could at least concede Christ was using Moses' '12/70 (or 72) Principle: 12 Princes 12 Apostles 70 Elders 70 Disciples. The symbolism of such numbers is not accidental. Moses anointed 70 elders for service. We read, “So Moses went out and told the people what the LORD had said. Gathering seventy elders of the people, he had them stand around the tent. The LORD then came down in the cloud and spoke to him. Taking some of the spirit that was on Moses, he bestowed it on the seventy elders; and as the spirit came to rest on them, they prophesied.” (Numbers 11:24-25.). The spirit gave them spiritual gifts, like prophesy, perhaps they had other gifts like Christ's gifts.

However, there were two extra Elders left at the camp not with them: “two men, one named Eldad and the other Medad, were not in the gathering but had been left in the camp. They too had been on the list, but had not gone out to the tent; yet the spirit came to rest on them also, and they prophesied in the camp.” (Numbers 11:26.) Thus, the number of elders who are anointed by the LORD to assist Moses in his work among the people of Israel is actually 72. It is not then clearly significant that Jesus, in choosing 72, is making a connection with Moses, demonstrating what He is doing is in continuity?

The Sanhedrin Council had 71 and there were other lower councils which were composed of 73 members. Yet both these groups though not exactly 70 or 72, they professed to be modeling themselves after the 70 in Numbers 11:16; “Gather to me seventy men of the elders of the Israel." They are at least no less than 70, one extra maybe a tie breaker vote.

I don't think there is a doctrinal difference if its 70 or 72.  In either case, I don't see the seventy (or
quorums with 70 in each quorum) having any role in the church after Pentecost or in any time frame
of the Book of Mormon. You mentioned the pattern of 12 Apostles.  The main sect of the LDS faith
has 15.

I don't know if it matters to the theme of patterns discussed above but Christ himself is referred to
as an apostle (Hebrews 3:1).