Lesson 17 - The Power of the Word - is the past still relevant for us today?

[mfbukowski]

22 minutes ago, theplains said:

When do LDS women become High Priests, entering the holy of holies?

In the temple, sisters officiate for sisters, all ordinances except sealings. There is no need for sisters to perform sealings 

Edited August 8, 2023 by mfbukowski

[InCognitus]

5 hours ago, theplains said:

When do LDS women become High Priests, entering the holy of holies?

They don't need to be.  

5 hours ago, theplains said:

I figured Joseph Smith was said to be a descendant of Lehi’s son Joseph because of what 
Lehi said to his son in verses 23-24. I added some text in [] :

"Wherefore, because of this covenant thou [Lehi is speaking to his son Joseph] art blessed; 
for thy [Joseph, Lehi’s son’s seed] seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto
the words of the book. And there shall rise up one mighty among them [in the seed through 
Lehi’s son Joseph], who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument 
in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which 
is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of 
Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren".

Not quite right.  It's like this:

"Wherefore, because of this covenant thou [Lehi speaking to his son Joseph] art blessed; for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.  And there shall rise up one mighty among them [he will rise up in the Americas where the descendants of Lehi would live, and he would be among them], who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren [the brethren of Lehi's son, Joseph]."  (2 Nephi 3:23–24)

It doesn't say that the one who would "rise up... among them" is a descendant of Lehi.

[theplains]

On 8/8/2023 at 10:21 PM, InCognitus said:

Not quite right.  It's like this:

"Wherefore, because of this covenant thou [Lehi speaking to his son Joseph] art blessed; for thy seed shall not be destroyed, for they shall hearken unto the words of the book.  And there shall rise up one mighty among them [he will rise up in the Americas where the descendants of Lehi would live, and he would be among them], who shall do much good, both in word and in deed, being an instrument in the hands of God, with exceeding faith, to work mighty wonders, and do that thing which is great in the sight of God, unto the bringing to pass much restoration unto the house of Israel, and unto the seed of thy brethren [the brethren of Lehi's son, Joseph]."  (2 Nephi 3:23–24)

It doesn't say that the one who would "rise up... among them" is a descendant of Lehi.

I see "one mighty among them" being a reference to the seed of Lehi's son Joseph for that is 
the blessing of Joseph's seed not being destroyed.  The "seed of thy brethren" is a descendant 
of Lehi, but through Joseph (both in the lineage of Manasseh).

[InCognitus]

14 hours ago, theplains said:

I see "one mighty among them" being a reference to the seed of Lehi's son Joseph for that is 
the blessing of Joseph's seed not being destroyed.  The "seed of thy brethren" is a descendant 
of Lehi, but through Joseph (both in the lineage of Manasseh).

I already explained why this view is wrong.  Joseph Smith was born in Vermont.  He was "raised up" in the Americas.  To be "raised up" somewhere, among a people that already existed in this land, doesn't mean he was a descendant of those people.  It just means he was "raised up" among them.

[theplains]

On 8/25/2023 at 1:24 AM, InCognitus said:

I already explained why this view is wrong.  Joseph Smith was born in Vermont.  He was "raised up" in the Americas.  To be "raised up" somewhere, among a people that already existed in this land, doesn't mean he was a descendant of those people.  It just means he was "raised up" among them.

On the flip-side of the coin, does being raised up among those living in the Americas mean he wasn't
a real descendant of the people who sprang from Lehi's son Joseph ?

[InCognitus]

9 hours ago, theplains said:

On the flip-side of the coin, does being raised up among those living in the Americas mean he wasn't
a real descendant of the people who sprang from Lehi's son Joseph ?

It means there's no reason to make that connection, none whatsoever. 

[Pyreaux]

On 8/4/2023 at 6:27 PM, theplains said:

The Old Testament only had one living high priest at a time. In the New Testament, Jesus 
is our Great High Priest. That is why none of the Apostles identified themselves were high 
priests.  They realized that the temple veil was torn by Christ, giving them and other 
disciples direct access to the Father.  We don’t need Catholic priests or LDS high priests.

That is the opposite of what the Bible says. There was one officiating Aaronic High Priest among the Levites in Jerusalem, but Jesus is no Aaronic High Priest at all. Jesus has no legal right to the Aaronic Priesthood under the Mosaic Law as he was from the tribe of Judah, not Levi and Aaron. The Epistle to the Hebrews takes great pains to explain to us how Jesus Christ was a legitimate type of High Priest after the “order [taxin (H#5010), succession (from one person to another)] of Melchizedek”. A historically valid priesthood that was held by Israelite royalty that were ordained at their coronation (Psalm 110:4). The Melchizedek Priesthood was a type of priesthood far more ancient and powerful than the Priests of Levi, who depend on a Levitical lineage (Hebrews 7:6-10, 14, 27-28).

Moses was a priest (Psalm 99:1), as a High Priest attempted to renew the original covenant (before Israel sinned) and blood atoned there (Exodus 24:8). The triple partitioned Mount Sinai was a rural Temple, the Israelites stayed at the Bottom of the Mount, Aaron and the Seventy were able to go Midway Up, and Moses as a High Priest had to go to the Top alone (Exodus 19:17). Moses attempted to renew the Everlasting Covenant of Abraham for Israel, so they could lay claim on Canaan, and attempt to bestow the priesthood after Melchizedek among every Israelite man over his own household. A royal priesthood, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation (Exodus 19:6). Until Israel was found unworthy with the golden calf, and the Covenant was amended into the new Mosaic Covenant and the creation of a new inferior Priesthood was made to administer to a lesser covenant, a priesthood for the Levites only. Christ came to fix this. 

The Kings of Israel were priests after the order of King Melchizedek. The Christians were being initiated into a the priesthood of the kings. So, in the New Testament, John writes to the churches explaining that the "true" in the church are "kings" and "priests" (Revelation 1:6) as the Christian priesthood and ancient kingship went hand in hand. Peter paraphrase Exodus, we are ideally a "royal priesthood, a holy nation", (1 Peter 2:9). "Christian" means: "a follower of Christ", as the Epistle to the Hebrews describes it, we are aspiring to follow Christ through the temple veil and "draw nigh unto God". Not as some think; that with Christ as our High Priest, there is no need of earthly Priests to reach God, rather we are to follow Christ into the High Priesthood itself. You are entering Gods presence because *you*, as the fully idealized Christian, are a High Priest.

On 8/8/2023 at 3:07 PM, theplains said:

When do LDS women become High Priests, entering the holy of holies?

Technically their baptism was the start of the priestly path, and any calling requiring an endowment of power makes a woman a Deaconess, and in Temple Marriage they enter the "highest order of the priesthood". That is in life. Though not called a priest in life, in death, they are certainly a fully-fledged High Priestess unto God the Father, since they are fully prepared to approach the heavenly throne in the Holy of Holies of Heaven. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Pyreaux